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"Rematch" Button

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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby Shannon Apple on Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:52 am

agentcom wrote:
Lindax wrote:
rdsrds2120 wrote:DO NOT join or create any of these games. They will be promptly deleted and exploiting bugs is against site rules![/list]

BMO[/size]


That's really funny. I can't find any rule on this site prohibiting "exploiting bugs". It's not even a bug, it's an oversight on your part.



It is a bug. As for the rule, you are technically correct that there isn't a rule that directly cites "exploiting bugs." However, there are general rules that cover this situation. I think the most prescient, though, is simply that "common sense prevails."

Common sense would tell you that the games that are limited to once a month games for premium players only (and some special events) was not meant to be circumvented by this new feature. How could one possibly think that this feature was intended to create unlimited BRs? It boggles the mind how many people could possibly think that this was some sort of intended part of this update.

For those of you smart enough to figure out that this was (obviously) unintended, again, common sense would tell you that you aren't supposed to go creating a bunch of those games. In my experience, CC has consistently enforced this rule when it comes to bug exploitation. It's happened during several other feature implementations as users found bugs.

A lot of users finding bugs, do it by creating a "test" game and then reporting it to the moderators. I have not seen users who do this get in any sort of trouble at all.

But some users think that any exploit they find is fair game and proceed to take as much advantage of it as possible. Those are the users that end up getting punished.

Fortunately, CC doesn't have quite the Draconian leadership that some imagine (and a few hint at above). The first warning for bug exploitation is just that ... a warning. For those people that may not be familiar with the Bug Report forum, the C&A forum or other parts of the site where this is discussed, they are informed directly by a moderator with a warning not to do it again. I find it very hard to see where this specter of heavy-handedness comes from given that system.

I agree that some more thought probably could have prevented this from even being an issue. But to paint the people who tried to get free or additional access to the paid content of the site as martyrs or Robin Hoods is going a bit too far.


I agree with the sentiment that common sense should prevail. However, it sounded like people were being threatened with bans, and loss of their premium membership. It was the tone of the post that got people going here.

You have to also see it from their point of view. People are not always as sensible as we'd like them to be and they do stupid things. They should simply lose points for deleted games, as they would do had they lost them. That would deter them from doing the same in the future. Someone who created a shitload would have a problem then. :lol:

My two cents.
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby Butters1919 on Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:58 am

agentcom wrote:It is a bug. As for the rule, you are technically correct that there isn't a rule that directly cites "exploiting bugs." However, there are general rules that cover this situation. I think the most prescient, though, is simply that "common sense prevails."

Common sense would tell you that the games that are limited to once a month games for premium players only (and some special events) was not meant to be circumvented by this new feature. How could one possibly think that this feature was intended to create unlimited BRs? It boggles the mind how many people could possibly think that this was some sort of intended part of this update.

For those of you smart enough to figure out that this was (obviously) unintended, again, common sense would tell you that you aren't supposed to go creating a bunch of those games. In my experience, CC has consistently enforced this rule when it comes to bug exploitation. It's happened during several other feature implementations as users found bugs.

A lot of users finding bugs, do it by creating a "test" game and then reporting it to the moderators. I have not seen users who do this get in any sort of trouble at all.

But some users think that any exploit they find is fair game and proceed to take as much advantage of it as possible. Those are the users that end up getting punished.

Fortunately, CC doesn't have quite the Draconian leadership that some imagine (and a few hint at above). The first warning for bug exploitation is just that ... a warning. For those people that may not be familiar with the Bug Report forum, the C&A forum or other parts of the site where this is discussed, they are informed directly by a moderator with a warning not to do it again. I find it very hard to see where this specter of heavy-handedness comes from given that system.

I agree that some more thought probably could have prevented this from even being an issue. But to paint the people who tried to get free or additional access to the paid content of the site as martyrs or Robin Hoods is going a bit too far.


Whilst I agree with all of this and understand why the BR's are to be kept as a "special game", I think that the moderators should have perhaps left the created games open and allowed them to finish. Then simply prevent further games from being created.

If there is anything to be taken from this, it's that people certainly would enjoy more variance in the BR games (ie, different maps)!

And yes, I fully expect this to be followed by the standard reply: "We understand this are are working on adding this in the future!"

Right...
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby Wingnut 16ga on Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:44 am

Back to the Button...love it...thanks for creating it!
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby Bruceswar on Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:40 pm

Mageplunka69 wrote:great idea, only wish that if you are "rematching" a private game , it also keeps it private...had 2 noobs join due to inviteeeees dropping....uggg



Also this!
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby rdsrds2120 on Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:45 pm

Bruceswar wrote:
Mageplunka69 wrote:great idea, only wish that if you are "rematching" a private game , it also keeps it private...had 2 noobs join due to inviteeeees dropping....uggg



Also this!


We'll look into it -- that makes sense! To clear up some thread angst, no, no one was threatened with a ban or loss of premium membership. I had only ever asked and, bug being fixed, am thankful for everyone that cooperated. There won't be bannings or anything of the sort -- I don't know that I wouldn't have tried it myself being in your guys' shoes!

I do have to delete any games that come up as a part of this, so excuse my tone! Please enjoy this feature as intended now! I'll be sending any suggestions to the development team. Thanks, everyone!

BMO
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby agentcom on Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:16 am

DJ Teflon wrote:
...

However, I'm sure most of the community would refer old updates to have their 'oversights' fixed before we have more features (and if we do have more features, then the map foundry still have a long queue of requests outstanding for years, and the clan community could do with a clan tab like the tournament tab).

Isn't it common sense to fix old 'oversights' before creating new ones?

...

One more thing: next time we get a feature it would be cool to not have an oversight.Examples of features with unfixed oversights:

...


DJ, I definitely agree with you on that. What I've been told and what's been said in other announcements is that the person working on one update may be different from the person working on another. So, that's the official line, and that's what I'll say here :) But the prioritization of updates (and "update fixing") is an issue that has caused no small amount of discussion among our team. I have hope that it will be fixed, otherwise you wouldn't see my name in color.

Shannon Apple wrote:
I agree with the sentiment that common sense should prevail. However, it sounded like people were being threatened with bans, and loss of their premium membership. It was the tone of the post that got people going here.

... They should simply lose points for deleted games, as they would do had they lost them. ...


Looks like RDS confirmed that the "punishments" for these aren't going to be severe, if there are any at all (pretty much what I was saying ;) ). As for the point loss idea: CC has historically avoided messing around with the points as a form of punishment.

rdsrds2120 wrote:
... I don't know that I wouldn't have tried it myself being in your guys' shoes!

...


Tell me about it ;)
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby BoganGod on Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:39 am

So after a long absence I return to CC. Sadly I find that the site is greatly diminished. Less players, less new players. Now there are threats based on lies. The rules state exploiting bugs.... Eh? WTF. Where in the rules? If the site is updated, and the update isn't tested/de bugged, then fix it. Don't punish paying customers for your lack of foresight. How would people know that they were exploiting a bug if they pressed the button in a "non" approved fashion and the button approved their action? Jd has CLEARLY stated else where that this has been bug tested. There for until the button is changed we have it on Jd's word that the button functions as the site intends it to.

If your going to change the rules and start threatening punishment for something that non fora frequenters would not know is a bug, you need to get your hands from their current warm spot. Put your hands back on your keyboard and send a pm to all on site, clearly explaining your mistake. Explaining that using a current function is against the rules, and detailing exact penalties....

Is it too much to ask for some timely up to date news and an explanation on new features. Why not put a "BETA" tag on new roll outs and site changes until you have them working properly? Wouldn't that be much nicer than acting like a sad petty officious prig that has never gotten over being bullied as a child. :roll: Sorry have been reading way to much psychology, I should not be trying to address your inner child, rather I should be even more direct in addressing the bully you've become.

Naturally I could be over reacting and what I read as threats may well be the loving promises of a truly caring person. A truly caring person maybe trying to tell their first joke? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby iAmCaffeine on Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:51 am

As has already been mentioned, this needs to be altered so that players are the same colour. I was part of team 2 in a triples and team 1 asked for a rematch so I clicked the button. It swapped me (pink) and red so the teams were mixed up. Completely pointless really, I'll just go re-make the game and send the invites manually, which isn't a problem, but defeats the purpose of having a rematch button.
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby Jdsizzleslice on Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:47 am

BoganGod wrote:So after a long absence I return to CC. Sadly I find that the site is greatly diminished. Less players, less new players. Now there are threats based on lies. The rules state exploiting bugs.... Eh? WTF. Where in the rules? If the site is updated, and the update isn't tested/de bugged, then fix it. Don't punish paying customers for your lack of foresight. How would people know that they were exploiting a bug if they pressed the button in a "non" approved fashion and the button approved their action? Jd has CLEARLY stated else where that this has been bug tested. There for until the button is changed we have it on Jd's word that the button functions as the site intends it to.

If your going to change the rules and start threatening punishment for something that non fora frequenters would not know is a bug, you need to get your hands from their current warm spot. Put your hands back on your keyboard and send a pm to all on site, clearly explaining your mistake. Explaining that using a current function is against the rules, and detailing exact penalties....

Is it too much to ask for some timely up to date news and an explanation on new features. Why not put a "BETA" tag on new roll outs and site changes until you have them working properly? Wouldn't that be much nicer than acting like a sad petty officious prig that has never gotten over being bullied as a child. :roll: Sorry have been reading way to much psychology, I should not be trying to address your inner child, rather I should be even more direct in addressing the bully you've become.

Naturally I could be over reacting and what I read as threats may well be the loving promises of a truly caring person. A truly caring person maybe trying to tell their first joke? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I know it might have sounded hostile from all of the Mods who were trying to get the community to not start these games, but no one will be punished for this. We are going to let it go, the Rematch button has been improved now. I do see everyone's point though, through a paying member's view, as in this was a feature un-explained at first, and it brings intrest back into the site.

But as agentcom has said,

agentcom wrote:Common sense would tell you that the games that are limited to once a month games for premium players only (and some special events) was not meant to be circumvented by this new feature. How could one possibly think that this feature was intended to create unlimited BRs? It boggles the mind how many people could possibly think that this was some sort of intended part of this update.
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby Shino Tenshi on Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:00 am

Jdsizzleslice wrote:But as agentcom has said,

agentcom wrote:Common sense would tell you that the games that are limited to once a month games for premium players only (and some special events) was not meant to be circumvented by this new feature. How could one possibly think that this feature was intended to create unlimited BRs? It boggles the mind how many people could possibly think that this was some sort of intended part of this update.


And yet you, JD, continually begged another player and myself to unfoe you, so you could join the BR games :lol: :lol: :lol:

Mods say as mods do? What a joke
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby Robespierre__ on Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:20 am

Thanks for this. We all appreciate all the efforts to make the site even better than it already is.

Don't hate guys. We get a lot for what little we pay.

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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby Jdsizzleslice on Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:40 am

Shino Tenshi wrote:
Jdsizzleslice wrote:But as agentcom has said,

agentcom wrote:Common sense would tell you that the games that are limited to once a month games for premium players only (and some special events) was not meant to be circumvented by this new feature. How could one possibly think that this feature was intended to create unlimited BRs? It boggles the mind how many people could possibly think that this was some sort of intended part of this update.


And yet you, JD, continually begged another player and myself to unfoe you, so you could join the BR games :lol: :lol: :lol:

Mods say as mods do? What a joke

Beg? Lol I just PM's Tannari... And he thought I had both of you foed. Lol. :lol:

I can take a flame. At least I can keep my hands off the foe button for someone who makes me mad... Nice one Genius =D>

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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:03 pm

Robespierre__ wrote:Thanks for this. We all appreciate all the efforts to make the site even better than it already is.

Don't hate guys. We get a lot for what little we pay.

Robes

+1

Bottom line is: it's still a great website.
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby Wingnut 16ga on Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:16 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
Robespierre__ wrote:Thanks for this. We all appreciate all the efforts to make the site even better than it already is.

Don't hate guys. We get a lot for what little we pay.

Robes

+1
+2
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby on Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:30 pm

Can we get Battle Royal games on other maps besides Colosseum?
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby on Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:35 pm

iAmCaffeine wrote:As has already been mentioned, this needs to be altered so that players are the same colour. I was part of team 2 in a triples and team 1 asked for a rematch so I clicked the button. It swapped me (pink) and red so the teams were mixed up. Completely pointless really, I'll just go re-make the game and send the invites manually, which isn't a problem, but defeats the purpose of having a rematch button.

hopefully the programmers can work this out
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby -=- Tanarri -=- on Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:47 pm

∞ wrote:Can we get Battle Royal games on other maps besides Colosseum?


If I understand correctly, dolomite is currently working on it. Hopefully witthin 2-3 months we'll have another Battle Royale specific map that will handle up to 26 players.
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby Jdsizzleslice on Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:24 am

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:
∞ wrote:Can we get Battle Royal games on other maps besides Colosseum?


If I understand correctly, dolomite is currently working on it. Hopefully witthin 2-3 months we'll have another Battle Royale specific map that will handle up to 26 players.

And it will be to where you are not eliminated on round 1! :D
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby agentcom on Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:55 pm

iAmCaffeine wrote:As has already been mentioned, this needs to be altered so that players are the same colour. I was part of team 2 in a triples and team 1 asked for a rematch so I clicked the button. It swapped me (pink) and red so the teams were mixed up. Completely pointless really, I'll just go re-make the game and send the invites manually, which isn't a problem, but defeats the purpose of having a rematch button.


Just so this doesn't get lost amid the other discussion going on here. I'll e-mail this to admin as well. Nice catch.
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby Fugitive_Bill on Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:29 pm

Just out of interest (I guess I should research it however...) why are we only allowed to play 1 game of 'Battle Royale' per month anyway?
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby nietzsche on Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:00 pm

Jdsizzleslice wrote:
But as agentcom has said,

agentcom wrote:Common sense would tell you that the games that are limited to once a month games for premium players only (and some special events) was not meant to be circumvented by this new feature. How could one possibly think that this feature was intended to create unlimited BRs? It boggles the mind how many people could possibly think that this was some sort of intended part of this update.



Decent programmers have to think of everything, and the mistake was lame, was one that any programmer must foresee. Murphy's law.

And when you test something, you don't only use it the way it's supposed to be used, you use it anyway you can, you try to break it, bend it anything.

So if agentcom is the authority in this matters, I will have to laugh a little bit more.. cause that's lame.

I gotta be honest though, it's possible the "beta testing" by the mods can be used by the programmer as way to avoid responsibility. If the programmer is said by El_Jefe: "ok, do your job, don't worry for testing I will provide lemmings to do it", then he could easily say "hey, they said it was going to be tested. testing is not my job". Still, the mistake was lame and it's one that shouldn't occur if you do simple validations.
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby Jdsizzleslice on Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:43 pm

nietzsche wrote:
Jdsizzleslice wrote:
But as agentcom has said,

agentcom wrote:Common sense would tell you that the games that are limited to once a month games for premium players only (and some special events) was not meant to be circumvented by this new feature. How could one possibly think that this feature was intended to create unlimited BRs? It boggles the mind how many people could possibly think that this was some sort of intended part of this update.



Decent programmers have to think of everything, and the mistake was lame, was one that any programmer must foresee. Murphy's law.

And when you test something, you don't only use it the way it's supposed to be used, you use it anyway you can, you try to break it, bend it anything.

So if agentcom is the authority in this matters, I will have to laugh a little bit more.. cause that's lame.

I gotta be honest though, it's possible the "beta testing" by the mods can be used by the programmer as way to avoid responsibility. If the programmer is said by El_Jefe: "ok, do your job, don't worry for testing I will provide lemmings to do it", then he could easily say "hey, they said it was going to be tested. testing is not my job". Still, the mistake was lame and it's one that shouldn't occur if you do simple validations.

The Beta Testers had no knowledge of the update though. Honestly I thought we were still in the workings of it... But everything is good now. I believe after this incident we will be more careful when new things come out.
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby rdsrds2120 on Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:03 pm

"Beta Testers" is still, well, in Beta! We're getting more testers and some updates were in development before the group came to be. No one's saying that this update didn't have it's flaws, but it's all fixed now and that's what's important.

BMO
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby nietzsche on Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:37 pm

What is important is that everyone pays attention to me.
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Re: "Rematch" Button

Postby BoganGod on Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:56 pm

rdsrds2120 wrote:"Beta Testers" is still, well, in Beta! We're getting more testers and some updates were in development before the group came to be. No one's saying that this update didn't have it's flaws, but it's all fixed now and that's what's important.

BMO

Yes and no. What is important is that a) this type of balls up doesn't happen again. b) mods/admin pull their heads in with their fascist threats. Don't threaten users because you made a mistake. Super lame, super puerile, fraudulent way to treat paying customers
IF YOU DON'T LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES, WE THE USERS ARE DOOMED TO DEAL WITH REPEATS OF THE SAME.
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