Manual Initial Troop Placement

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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby lackattack on Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:04 am

AAFitz wrote:It is at least a little more fair though...but still the person who goes first is nearly always going to win on most maps. It will just be player two now.


Actually, according to my stats the first person who plays after initial deployment has only a 30% advantage, even on 2 player games.

AAFitz wrote:To be honest, I almost think the only way to really fix the double turn on freestyle manual 24h is to not have the option... No person who knows about it would ever set one up, so the only people who do wont know any better, and will be taken out most of the time...


I don't understand... there should not be an option for freestyle manual or there should not be an option for double turns (which now there isn't)?
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby sully800 on Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:08 am

I believe meant there should not be an option for two player freestyle manual games because of the perceived advantage of being able to pick the turn order.

On a side note, there are so many modifiers for games now. twoplayer freestyle speed foggy manual world2.1 adjacent escalating. What a mouth full!
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby Tupence on Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:15 am

sully800 wrote:On a side note, there are so many modifiers for games now. twoplayer freestyle speed foggy manual world2.1 adjacent escalating. What a mouth full!

Make that eight-player, then you have to specify singles, doubles or quads too! (Or terminator or assassin...)
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby Beckytheblondie on Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:03 pm

deploy round should be called round 0 or something other than round 1...this has caused confusion in games where round number may be important.
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby AAFitz on Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:42 pm

sully800 wrote:I believe meant there should not be an option for two player freestyle manual games because of the perceived advantage of being able to pick the turn order.

On a side note, there are so many modifiers for games now. two player freestyle speed foggy manual world2.1 adjacent escalating. What a mouth full!


I did mean that....but I suppose its worth waiting to see if it is a problem... I only fear that people who dont understand it will set up games with that setting, and get squashed...

I may very well have killed more by setting up those settings than anyone... somewhere around 18 out of 21 games...and could have really won two of the others...

I suppose, if someone sets up the game, they can just wait for it to fill and race to drop before the other guy, but if the second player drops first, then all he has to do is wait a few hours, make his move, and its all over...

This really will only come into play though with people who dont know the setting... anyone who knows better, will simply know they have to watch until the game starts, and drop quick or lose.

Dont take any of this as a complaint either. Half the reason I played so many on that setting, was to try out a few methods and see what worked and what didnt. For multiplayer its fine, but 1v1 its always going to be a little unbalanced.
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby AAFitz on Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:54 pm

lackattack wrote:
AAFitz wrote:It is at least a little more fair though...but still the person who goes first is nearly always going to win on most maps. It will just be player two now.


Actually, according to my stats the first person who plays after initial deployment has only a 30% advantage, even on 2 player games.

Well, im sure on average this is the case... but if I see someone set up a world game with manual freestyle settings... I can join it, and beat him to the punch, which will give me a 90% chance of a win or higher.

Its a little trickier...and I have to see a game set up like that...but if I join, Probably on most maps of any size...my advantage is huge. I havent proved it....and it would take a while to do so...and I think ive hunted enough on manual as it is... but I think the same potential is out there...and anyone who sets up those settings without realizing the potential will probably lose most of the time.

Your stats probably include players that didnt realize how to quite work the system as much...or maybe those that simply didnt work the system.

Anyways... I think the best advice is to wait and see if there are problems.... just because there is a potential for it, doesnt mean there actually will be one. You did well by fixing it so quickly. I think that was the biggest loophole Ive ever Seen on CC.
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby ghengisMAN on Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:23 pm

Seems there is a prob. If some players place armies in manual round and others don't then those who don't get auto placed, 3 per terr (expected). Additionally they recieve extra round of armies to deploy in first real round cuz system says they missed a turn (the manual placement round in this case). So all who place in the manual round are penalized first turn's worth of armies, those who wait it out get the advantage. Is this intentional? Seems like a bug to me, and it ruined the first manual game I played, giving 16 extra armies to the opposing team in first round. Thoughts?

Oops! Now I read ALL the backposts. Seems this bug is fixed. Yea!
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby ignatious on Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:04 pm

Thanks for the new feature Lack!
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:09 pm

we should be able to see where other players have placed their troops. why is it foggy even in a non foggy game when deploying?
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby ignatious on Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:19 pm

Because otherwise no one would want to deploy first...
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby jleonnn on Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:44 am

lackattack wrote:For the longest time you have asked "why can't we decide where top put the armies?". Ask no more.

This popular suggestion is finally reality as a new game option, Initial Troops. It has 2 settings:

Automatic - the usual 3 armies :|

Manual - players decide where to place their armies in a blind freestyle round :D

See Instructions -> Game Options for more details.

As usual, thanks to everyone who suggested manual troop placement or provided feedback on the suggestions. Credit for this particular solution goes to c1arinetboy

Enjoy!

ciarinetboy has been dead for 2 years.
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby ignatious on Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:02 pm

Lack - wanted to share feedback. I think it would function better if people were allowed a 5 troop max per territory. This still gives the range of 1 to 5 troops per territory, which would make a big difference at the start and add a lot to the game. At the same time, it would prevent people from just piling everything into 1 place. Thanks again for the new feature.
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby nippersean on Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:41 am

I think it's really interesting in multiple player games though. If you risk stacking on one ter and one of the other players does the same close to you.....it's a shoot out and I bet you wished you'd spread 'em about a bit... 1v1 is clearly a coin toss, but I think multi player tactics are very open / developing.

thanks for new option

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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby stahrgazer on Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:11 pm

I think manual troop placement for seq games should also be seq rather than fs, with no option for "deferred placement" if someone misses a placement turn.
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby timrs2001 on Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:54 pm

:D Thank you for this!
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby Queen_Herpes on Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:38 pm

lackattack wrote:For the longest time you have asked "why can't we decide where top put the armies?". Ask no more.

This popular suggestion is finally reality as a new game option, Initial Troops. It has 2 settings:

Automatic - the usual 3 armies :|

Manual - players decide where to place their armies in a blind freestyle round :D

See Instructions -> Game Options for more details.

As usual, thanks to everyone who suggested manual troop placement or provided feedback on the suggestions. Credit for this particular solution goes to c1arinetboy

Enjoy!



Lack, you must remove fog from manual deploy. There is no point to a mnual deploy with fog. The player whose turn is first wins 99% of the time. Please, please manual deploy is a wonderful idea, but with the fog it is terrible. I continue to make the mistake of playing manual deploy games. Much to my detriment, I lose all of the games where my opponent goes first and have won all of the games where I went first.
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby ender516 on Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:55 am

Queen_Herpes wrote:
lackattack wrote:For the longest time you have asked "why can't we decide where top put the armies?". Ask no more.

This popular suggestion is finally reality as a new game option, Initial Troops. It has 2 settings:

Automatic - the usual 3 armies :|

Manual - players decide where to place their armies in a blind freestyle round :D

See Instructions -> Game Options for more details.

As usual, thanks to everyone who suggested manual troop placement or provided feedback on the suggestions. Credit for this particular solution goes to c1arinetboy

Enjoy!



Lack, you must remove fog from manual deploy. There is no point to a mnual deploy with fog. The player whose turn is first wins 99% of the time. Please, please manual deploy is a wonderful idea, but with the fog it is terrible. I continue to make the mistake of playing manual deploy games. Much to my detriment, I lose all of the games where my opponent goes first and have won all of the games where I went first.

Let me ask a simple direct question, with no slight intended: Do you think that removing the fog would make it fairer, that is to say, give you a better chance of winning? Because if not, I think removing the fog might just make this initial placement round much longer, as players wait to see what other players do. In the fog, you might as well just get on with it. Perhaps the fog during placement should be an option as well: automatic, manual with fog, manual with no fog.

I should probably state right now that I have not tried this new feature yet, have never played freestyle, and have only ever played one speed game, so I may be talking through my hat.
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby trinicardinal on Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:06 am

ender516 wrote:
Queen_Herpes wrote:
lackattack wrote:For the longest time you have asked "why can't we decide where top put the armies?". Ask no more.

This popular suggestion is finally reality as a new game option, Initial Troops. It has 2 settings:

Automatic - the usual 3 armies :|

Manual - players decide where to place their armies in a blind freestyle round :D

See Instructions -> Game Options for more details.

As usual, thanks to everyone who suggested manual troop placement or provided feedback on the suggestions. Credit for this particular solution goes to c1arinetboy

Enjoy!



Lack, you must remove fog from manual deploy. There is no point to a mnual deploy with fog. The player whose turn is first wins 99% of the time. Please, please manual deploy is a wonderful idea, but with the fog it is terrible. I continue to make the mistake of playing manual deploy games. Much to my detriment, I lose all of the games where my opponent goes first and have won all of the games where I went first.

Let me ask a simple direct question, with no slight intended: Do you think that removing the fog would make it fairer, that is to say, give you a better chance of winning? Because if not, I think removing the fog might just make this initial placement round much longer, as players wait to see what other players do. In the fog, you might as well just get on with it. Perhaps the fog during placement should be an option as well: automatic, manual with fog, manual with no fog.

I should probably state right now that I have not tried this new feature yet, have never played freestyle, and have only ever played one speed game, so I may be talking through my hat.


Basically why would i want to deploy first if you can see where I'm deploying? More likely than not people will wait till the last moment to deploy and then the person who plays first will still win. Fog for placement is better
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby caymanmew on Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:07 pm

why not have it so each person take turns placing toops
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby e_i_pi on Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:43 am

Basically, the way it is right now is horseshit. I won't go into detail, but I'll suggest this: make it so that you can only deploy a maximum of 5 troops on one territory. Right now, rather than deployment being strategic, it's your usual "stack in one place and blitz", which is shithouse, because the player going first can either secure a continent instantly, or reduce the other players territory count so much that they can't get back into the game. Also, next time an idea is implemented, think it through rather than just chuck it in ffs
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby khazalid on Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:22 am

if you're stacking your 20 armies on one territory then you really don't have a clue what you are doing.

whilst i agree that a little consultation about the specifics of an update is preferable to the current "SURPRISE CC'ers! What do you mean this doesn't work?" methodology(?) there is no real case for changing either the max number of armies per territory or the foggy deployment.
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby clangfield on Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:30 am

I think it should be fog, but I think it would also be fairer to have an indication of who is eventually going to go first. That then gives players who are not going first the chance to avoid having all their armies obliterated on the first turn, or to prevent the first player taking a bonus area cheaply.
Otherwise the first player will always have the huge advantage.
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby morleyjoe on Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:27 am

I like the idea of manual placement, but wonder why should people get a medal for it? If someone always plays Peloponnesian War or Feudal War and chooses Manual placement, why should they get a medal for it? There's no skill in doing that. I just joined a manual Feudal War game, and only have one place to deploy the troops, but it could count towards a medal if I win??? And I'm sure there are other maps just like those two.
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby SirSebstar on Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:11 pm

you still need to win 400 times, so thsats also an accomplishment
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Re: Manual Initial Troop Placement

Postby -Maximus- on Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:51 pm

morleyjoe wrote:I like the idea of manual placement, but wonder why should people get a medal for it? If someone always plays Peloponnesian War or Feudal War and chooses Manual placement, why should they get a medal for it? There's no skill in doing that. I just joined a manual Feudal War game, and only have one place to deploy the troops, but it could count towards a medal if I win??? And I'm sure there are other maps just like those two.


Thats how I got manual silver!
If you wrong me I will hunt you down and destroy you.
Highest rank: Top 1.6% of CC (over 18000 active players)

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Major -Maximus-
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:59 pm
Location: Colorado
Medals: 66
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (6) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (6)
Tournament Contribution (2)

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