Conquer Club

Ultimate Captain+ Doubles [Big_Whiskey & nikola_milicki]

Tournaments completed in 2007.

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Postby Optimus Prime on Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:05 pm

I was asked to make some comments on this "point transfer" debate, so here we go:

In my personal opinion as a Tournament Organizer, and not in any official capacity, I would say that if 16 players did not express their opinion in the poll, then they should be considered as voting for no change whatsoever. It is only fair to assume that, and that has been the case in many, many tournaments I have played in.

With 3 players saying that they wish to have no point transfer whatsoever, and 2 saying that they wish to have no point transfer for future tournaments, and 3 saying to leave things as it is then it appears that the voting is split pretty much evenly, thereby giving the final say to the organizer himself as he is the one in charge.

My more OFFICIAL opinion would be this:

In the end, the tournament organizer has the final say on what changes need to be made during the play of a tournament. However, if the players in the tournament have a majority vote stating that they wish for a change to be made differently than the organizer wishes, he should do his best to abide by the wishes of the players.

With that said, there is no majority vote at the moment in this "point transfer" dilemma and so at the moment I would say that AndrewB has the power to make a change to the system or to leave it the way it is and the players will need to abide by his decision.

The only option I can see at the moment is to send an ACTUAL PM to all players in the tournament, stating that a vote is NEEDED to make a good decision, and then record who votes which way here in the thread. After that take whichever option wins and use it with no argument from the players.

My final verdict would be this:

As there is no clear cut majority, I think that if AndrewB is willing to cut the percentage of points transferred from 50% to 25%, he should do so. That keeps the original idea that he wished to use intact, as well as provides some appeasement to the players who are not in as much favor.

With future tournaments, be sure to outline the system from the beginning so that there is no confusion, and the players will know what is going on from the start.

Everyone forgets to include a detail in their tournament description from time to time, and it shouldn't become a heated topic. ;)


Hopefully that helps,

Regards, Optimus Prime
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Postby AndrewB on Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:21 pm

Thanks, Optimus Prime for stepping in.

I have setup the poll. The poll will be open for 4 days. And I will be sending the PMs to tournament players.

Tables are updated as of Nov 27.
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Postby Nephilim on Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:48 pm

i'm not reading all this crap so i just voted for the middle ground, keep 25% of points to next round
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Postby LEONE on Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:16 pm

I vote: remove points transfer altogether.
I think it will be fair to start from 0 (zero) points in round two because in round one we play against different players and the only reward for better qualified players is that they play against others who achieve less victories (considered as lower ranked in the tournament).
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Postby goggles paisano on Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:04 pm

No points tranfer. In most sports, teams are placed on even ground as they proceed in a tournament ( aside from a home field advantage ). This prevents an anti-climactic finish and allows nobody to rest on their laurels
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Postby Scott-Land on Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:38 am

Wonder why I didn't get to vote. Anyhoo- add another one to no points transfer. I think the teams that are playing better are getting an advantage by the re-seeding each round.

This presents us another question that Chess had asked- if there are no point transfers............ will the final be based on best of series or what happens if 3 teams are tied for first?
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Postby firstholliday on Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:36 am

game nr 1165508 won by titus and 1st

i voted the 25% transfer, coz i feel like there should be a minimum advantage for the previous round. I feel a 1% transfer would be sufficient, in case of a draw.
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Postby Karlo Veliki on Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:17 am

I think you should remove points transfer altogether becourse first 3 from the group are going trough to the next stage and thay should start next round equal as in most of sports!
If one team has won all games in first stage, that team earns enough points to be satiesfied and thete is no nead to push them later on in the game!
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Postby AndrewB on Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:33 am

22 out of 24 people are voted.

Shall we change points transfer rule?
No, keep 50% transfer
27% [ 6 ]
Yes, change it to 25% points transfer
22% [ 5 ]
Yes, remove points transfer altogether
50% [ 11 ]

we have 50-50 break for having the point transfer and not having it.

Therefore I will select the middle part, as suggested by Optimus Prime.

I am changing the rule to have a 25% points transfer.

The discussion is closed and this verdict is final.
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Postby AndrewB on Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:37 am

Scott-Land wrote:Wonder why I didn't get to vote. Anyhoo- add another one to no points transfer. I think the teams that are playing better are getting an advantage by the re-seeding each round.

This presents us another question that Chess had asked- if there are no point transfers............ will the final be based on best of series or what happens if 3 teams are tied for first?


You can read the rules about tie-breakers on the first page:

5. In the case of the draw, 3 extra game will be played.
7. In the case of a three way tie, we will play 3 tie-braker games in total. Each team will play against the other team once. If 3 tie-braker games are not enough, I will reviewed how each team played against each other. If that won't established the winner, then team with the highest rating will proceed.
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Postby AndrewB on Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:49 am

The tables have been updated to reflect the points transfer rule change, as well as they were updated with the latest game results.
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Postby Mike Doherty on Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:33 pm

I dont agree with points transfer at all...wasn't stated from the start of the tournament...

but oh well..we are almost done, no problem, great tournament andrewb
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Postby nikola_milicki on Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:10 pm

so first 3 from each table go to finals, right?
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Postby pjdonald on Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:00 am

firstholliday wrote: I feel a 1% transfer would be sufficient, in case of a draw.


That's essentially how a 25% transfer functions, unless someone just blows away a round. Andrew and David are the only ones with a shot to carry forward 1.0 or more.
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Postby jaydog on Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:58 am

In an Epic loss of points in recent times i have fallen well below the point restriction. I have always felt a bit pissy at folks who join a tourney like this and get down to sgt and such.

If it is the decision of the group and founder of the tourney I will step out, and let Nephilim pick another partner. I am still quite keen to play on as I feel this is temporary ( hell we have all had a bad month), but due to the point structure i understand. please let me know before the last set of games.
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Postby nikola_milicki on Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:32 am

Same problem here :(
I joined this tourney being a major but now Im around 1900, my bad lucky is absolutely out of this world, unreal, inhuman ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
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Postby nikola_milicki on Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:32 am

nikola_milicki wrote:so first 3 from each table go to finals, right?
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Postby AndrewB on Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:58 am

nikola_milicki wrote:
nikola_milicki wrote:so first 3 from each table go to finals, right?


Correct, top 3 teams from each group will go to the finals.
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Postby AndrewB on Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:59 am

nikola_milicki wrote:Same problem here :(
I joined this tourney being a major but now Im around 1900, my bad lucky is absolutely out of this world, unreal, inhuman ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)


Jaydog and Nikola,

Once you are in the tournament you cannot leave it because your rating falls down. You can only be eliminated because of the game results.
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Postby AndrewB on Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:15 pm

pjdonald wrote:
firstholliday wrote: I feel a 1% transfer would be sufficient, in case of a draw.


That's essentially how a 25% transfer functions, unless someone just blows away a round. Andrew and David are the only ones with a shot to carry forward 1.0 or more.


For that we would need to get 9 points and barrier must be at 5. Which won't happen. Max we could get is 8.75 and the barrier most likely will be at 5.75.

Finally, you guys are starting to calculate and see, how little this transfer gives.

And most importantly, as of right now no players are affected by the points transfer. They have same position as if there was no points transfer.
Last edited by AndrewB on Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Scott-Land on Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:20 pm

AndrewB wrote:22 out of 24 people are voted.

Shall we change points transfer rule?
No, keep 50% transfer
27% [ 6 ]
Yes, change it to 25% points transfer
22% [ 5 ]
Yes, remove points transfer altogether
50% [ 11 ]

we have 50-50 break for having the point transfer and not having it.

Therefore I will select the middle part, as suggested by Optimus Prime.

I am changing the rule to have a 25% points transfer.

The discussion is closed and this verdict is final.



Hmmm :-k Again- not complaining about the 'verdict' but wanted to point out the biased poll. Three options to vote on and only 2 of them tallied. This reminds me of an old trick question I heard about spending X amount of dollars in a whorehouse to the affect of a dollar being unaccounted for- or something to that affect. I'm still quite puzzled as you can tell by the poor explanation = )

Not that it matters - LOL
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Postby Blitzaholic on Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:34 pm

AndrewB wrote:22 out of 24 people are voted.

Shall we change points transfer rule?
No, keep 50% transfer
27% [ 6 ]
Yes, change it to 25% points transfer
22% [ 5 ]
Yes, remove points transfer altogether
50% [ 11 ]

we have 50-50 break for having the point transfer and not having it.

Therefore I will select the middle part, as suggested by Optimus Prime.

I am changing the rule to have a 25% points transfer.

The discussion is closed and this verdict is final.




good work neo
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Postby Sir Titus on Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:14 am

Sir Titus and firstholliday won games 1201479 and 1245627 (both against Donkey and Greycloak).

Only one more game to go.... we may have a chance after all.
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Postby LEONE on Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:32 am

Karlo Veliki & LEONE won their 5th game in round 2 (1245621) against yorkiepeter & chard.

Unfortunatelly 5 wins will not be enough to go to the finals.
Well actually in 20 tournament games we have 5 victories in round 1 + 3 victories in tiebreak (we didn't get any bonus for that :-(( ).
Alltohether we have 13 victories and by your rule we are out of the finals and we don't have the opportunity to play tie break in round 2 since there are teams in our group with same ammount of victories as we do.

At the end I would like to thank you (AndrewB) for very good tournament and a big thanks for all the players for very good and challenging games.
See you again in some other tournament.

All the best, Karlo Veliki & LEONE
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Postby AndrewB on Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:36 am

In Group A following teams proceed to the finals:

AndrewB - David_Wain
trestain - ptlowe

Last team will be either Firstholliday - Sir Titus or nvwinelover - Mike Doherty.

In Group B following teams proceed to the finals:

pjdonald - goggles paisano
Big Whiskey - nikola_milicki
yorkiepeter - chard

I am planning to start final games on Monday.
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