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January 2016 - Decade in Review

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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby Donelladan on Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:07 am

josko.ri wrote:It is also true that the tournament was open for more than 10 days and due to lack of interest total number of players was changed from 64 to 56. Why? Because some of tribes did not put their second member into the tournament in more than 10 days. Shouldn't it be responsibility of tribe, not organizer, to sign up their two members in the tournament if they want to compete with 2 members?

It is much easier to score (doubled) 6/6 and win the tournament than to score 12/12, so the organizer would do a big undeserved favor to tribes with 1 member if he makes it the most winning % as deciding factor.

When it was signing up, I assured that my tribe has 2 players signed in, and that should be responsibility of every tribes' players in this type of tribal tournament. If they didn't do it in more than 10 days when tournament was accepting players, it is their loss.

just FYI, I was aware of this problem before the tournament even started and I had suggested to the organizer to send pms to tribes with 1 player asking to sign up 1 more player. But my proposal was not accepted by the organizer saying that more than 10 days was enough time for them to join with 2 players if they wanted so.


64 places. On the clan tab I count 34 clans, plus 4 primitive tribes and one advanced tribe.
Potentially 39 - making 64 members still not sufficient to accept everyone when the tournament was created.

I agree with you that reaching 100% would be easier for a clan with one member rather than for a clan with 2 members.
Which I why I think it's better to double the number pf games for tribes with 1 member only.

And I think you'd agree with me that having a maximum score of 6 for tribes with 1 member exclude them de facto for a possible medal.
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby josko.ri on Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:20 am

Donelladan wrote:And I think you'd agree with me that having a maximum score of 6 for tribes with 1 member exclude them de facto for a possible medal.

I agree this is true, but it is entirely their fault not to sign up second member in more than 10 days how much the tournament was waiting for players so they suffer for their inactivity in signing players in.

It is also paradoxical that in "tribal" tournament which is by default competition of MANY individuals one single member can win it all.
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby Donelladan on Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:43 am

josko.ri wrote:
Donelladan wrote:And I think you'd agree with me that having a maximum score of 6 for tribes with 1 member exclude them de facto for a possible medal.

I agree this is true, but it is entirely their fault not to sign up second member in more than 10 days how much the tournament was waiting for players so they suffer for their inactivity in signing players in.


As I already said :

Donelladan wrote:64 places. On the clan tab I count 34 clans, plus 4 primitive tribes and one advanced tribe.
Potentially 39 - making 64 members still not sufficient to accept everyone when the tournament was created.


And I'll tell you, I looked at this tournament, and decided not to join when I saw one LHDD member was already inside. ( later another LHDD joined but irrelevant).
Since it wasn't possible in any case to have 2 members for every tribe and clans, I don't think it's acceptable to punish tribe with only one member.

Also, usually in other tribe tournaments, the number of players necessary is given. Here it was 2 max, not 2 players.

josko.ri wrote:It is also paradoxical that in "tribal" tournament which is by default competition of MANY individuals one single member can win it all.


Two or one doesn't make much difference. It's 1vs1 game anyway.
I believe before the format change, it was supposed to be direct elimination, meaning only 1 player would have won at the end. Potentially the last turn could have been 2 players from the same tribe facing each other

Furthermore you asked very relevant questions earlier in this thread

CatchersMitt14 wrote:
josko.ri wrote:Thanks a lot. Now I see the system changed and it is not anymore 64 but is 56 players. And members from 31 tribes signed in which mean some tribes will have only 1 player. I think it is the best to return to original 64 players and send pms to tribes which are not fully in that we need 1 more or 2 players from their tribe.


josko.ri wrote:viewtopic.php?f=786&t=216374#p4771804
Check my post, if you let it start with 56 members, there will be 31 Tribes and not every tribe will have 2 members. That will cause confusion in the tournament scoring. Better revert to original 64 players and send pms to Tribes which did not fully join to sign up their representatives.


josko.ri wrote:Now you have members from 32 tribes signed in and 55 total. That is 23 tribes with 2 players and 9 tribes with 1 player. The way to go is to send pm to 9 players which are lone from their tribe to recruit 1 more member and make it 64 players. Otherwise with 56 players you will have 8 tribes with only 1 member and that will be mess up.


The tournament has been open for sign ups for over a week now. That is ample time for those interested to enter the tournament and for people to recruit their fellow tribe members to join. Even if we were to move the number of players back up to 64 there is still a possibility that not all clans will have two representatives a piece. I do not see how the discrepancy with number of players per clan will affect the scoreboard.



To which CatchersMitt14 replied "I do not see how the discrepancy with number of players per clan will affect the scoreboard." which was true if it was a direct elimination tournament.
But which is not true anymore if it's total of wins per tribes/clans with some having twice more games than other.

In a direct elimination tournament with 1 winner at the end, of course having 2 members instead of one increase your chance of having someone of your tribe being 1st, but it's still totally possible for a tribe with 1 member to finish 1st as well.
Right now it's 100% impossible for a tribe with 1 member to finish in the top 4.

Since the format changed, it is now extremely important to have 2 members for your tribe, but during signing up, it was not. Therefore you can't blame tribe with 1 member saying it's their own fault, should they have expected change of rule ??


Btw, at the end of the day, I don't care, LHDD has 2 members anyway, and winning this tournament isn't such a big deal, I just think current system is unfair.
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby CatchersMitt14 on Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:09 pm

When I agreed with the decision to decrease the number of players in the tournament to 56 we believed the tournament structure would stay the same (a single elimination bracket) and therefore it would not be detrimental to the scoring system already in place. The changes to no elimination and to the scoring we made after the tournament had already started and I agree, it now favors the tribes with two players. I asked about changing the scoring to the percentage of wins per tribe and I am told that it would be too difficult to implement at this point. It would require the games to drop tokens at initiation and to the winners.
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby josko.ri on Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:22 am

Right now, in Decade in the Tribal tournament there is no listed Participation ribbon as award for first 4 places, only for 5th to 56th. I believe this is mistake.
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby CatchersMitt14 on Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:28 pm

The ribbons on there, just listed separately. It has the prizes for the first four tribes listed first, then ribbons listed below that for all 56 participants.
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby Swifte on Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:02 am

In Decade In Review: 2013, should Round 3 have had 3 games? 2 games seems like a really odd number, you're going to end up with a cluster of folks that go 1-1 and stupid tie-breakers are going to decide things. All prior rounds were only 1 game and all future rounds will be 3 games... having 1 round of 2 makes no sense.
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby Dukasaur on Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:50 am

Swifte wrote:In Decade In Review: 2013, should Round 3 have had 3 games? 2 games seems like a really odd number, you're going to end up with a cluster of folks that go 1-1 and stupid tie-breakers are going to decide things. All prior rounds were only 1 game and all future rounds will be 3 games... having 1 round of 2 makes no sense.

I suspect BW was just trying to be symmetrical, providing a bridge of 2 games from 1 game each in the first two rounds to 3 games each in the last two rounds. I'll forward your question to BW but I suspect he will say that since the games have already begun it's too late to change it now. It's quite messy to re-open a round already in progress.
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby JPlo64 on Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:44 pm

Problem/Complaint with Decade in Review: 2015

The page Shows FOED as being the Winners, but we are awarded 3rd place.

On top of the AutoPage having a contradiction about the order finished. I argue that FOED should unquestionably be the winner.

3 Tribes finished tied with a record of 10 W - 2 L. But 1 of FOED's 2 losses was unavoidable because our 2 competitors were randomly matched against each other. This did not happen for either of the other 2 tribes finished tied for the best record. This is of course, a fail by the auto-tournament system.
So FOED actually won 10 of their 11 games as opposed to 10 of 12 like the other 2 tribes that finished tied for best record.
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby shoop76 on Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:00 pm

JPlo64 wrote:Problem/Complaint with Decade in Review: 2015

The page Shows FOED as being the Winners, but we are awarded 3rd place.

On top of the AutoPage having a contradiction about the order finished. I argue that FOED should unquestionably be the winner.

3 Tribes finished tied with a record of 10 W - 2 L. But 1 of FOED's 2 losses was unavoidable because our 2 competitors were randomly matched against each other. This did not happen for either of the other 2 tribes finished tied for the best record. This is of course, a fail by the auto-tournament system.
So FOED actually won 10 of their 11 games as opposed to 10 of 12 like the other 2 tribes that finished tied for best record.


Maybe you guys shouldn't have made it go 17 rounds.
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby josko.ri on Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:07 pm

JPlo64 wrote:So FOED actually won 10 of their 11 games as opposed to 10 of 12 like the other 2 tribes that finished tied for best record.

Then it would be 9 of 10, not 10 of 11 because if you delete that game then 2 games are being deleted not one.

However, I believe total number of rounds in winning games is the tie breaker.
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby CatchersMitt14 on Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:04 pm

We agree. PACK, FOED, and LHDD have a three way tie for first and will all be issued gold tokens. S&M will receive a bronze token for fourth place.
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby shoop76 on Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:13 am

CatchersMitt14 wrote:We agree. PACK, FOED, and LHDD have a three way tie for first and will all be issued gold tokens. S&M will receive a bronze token for fourth place.


I don't see how this can be done. Ties in auto tournaments happen all the time and there are rules in place to break these ties. Maybe not good rules, but rules nonetheless. Are we going to go back and change all these tournaments where ties have occurred. What about the other tournaments in this event where there were ties in earlier rounds and some players did not advance due to the same tiebreak rules. Are we going to change those? I have complained previously about the tiebreakers and been told that it is the way it is, if you can suggest a better way, maybe we can change. Obviously it hasn't happened. Why now for this 1 event. In my opinion if you do it for 1 event you must do it for all events. What makes this tournament different than others. Especially since its part of a collective and these rules have been used since the beginning of autotournaments.

This will also change the overall leaderboard.
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby fairman on Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:29 am

Several points as I'm concerned here :

- JPlo I agree that facing another member of your tribe is not fair. It gave you an automatical loss ... but also an easy win.

- For the round limit, no idea of what count, the tribes with the quikest win? The tribes with the less rounds used in general. All that seems a bit unfair as well here, as we had different settings (manual game are finishing quiker most of the time)
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby JPlo64 on Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:29 am

shoop76 wrote:
CatchersMitt14 wrote:We agree. PACK, FOED, and LHDD have a three way tie for first and will all be issued gold tokens. S&M will receive a bronze token for fourth place.


I don't see how this can be done. Ties in auto tournaments happen all the time and there are rules in place to break these ties. Maybe not good rules, but rules nonetheless. Are we going to go back and change all these tournaments where ties have occurred. What about the other tournaments in this event where there were ties in earlier rounds and some players did not advance due to the same tiebreak rules. Are we going to change those? I have complained previously about the tiebreakers and been told that it is the way it is, if you can suggest a better way, maybe we can change. Obviously it hasn't happened. Why now for this 1 event. In my opinion if you do it for 1 event you must do it for all events. What makes this tournament different than others. Especially since its part of a collective and these rules have been used since the beginning of autotournaments.

This will also change the overall leaderboard.

Nope.
You don't have to.
This particular monthly event can act independently.
One could in theory Use an auto-tournament, but use alternative tie-breakers and award accordingly.
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby JPlo64 on Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:32 am

fairman wrote:Several points as I'm concerned here :

- JPlo I agree that facing another member of your tribe is not fair. It gave you an automatical loss ... but also an easy win.

- For the round limit, no idea of what count, the tribes with the quikest win? The tribes with the less rounds used in general. All that seems a bit unfair as well here, as we had different settings (manual game are finishing quiker most of the time)

True, you can throw out that one game and I could argue that 9-1 is better than 10-2.
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby josko.ri on Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:45 am

Any chance that you may add Conquer Cup Super Achievement medals for Decade in Review: 2011 (Conquer Cup)?
That tournament also has amazon prize like original Conquer Cup but not Conquer Cup Super Achievement medals which all Conquer Cups previously had.
Any chance to add these medals to have awards closer to real Conquer Cup?
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby Swifte on Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:32 am

For those waiting/wondering, I think we're the last game running in any the events: Game 16483569
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby Swifte on Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:27 pm

I believe all Decade in Review tournaments are now complete :)
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:57 pm

Swifte wrote:I believe all Decade in Review tournaments are now complete :)

Thanks!
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Re: January 2016 - Decade in Review

Postby CatchersMitt14 on Mon May 02, 2016 10:07 pm

challenge complete, awards issued.
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