nietzsche wrote:The responsibility of either torturing or giving the order. By this I meant, the moral responsibility of torturing someone basing yourself in what others say, not being an idiot and realising the government lies, or colours the truth somehow to manipulate.
About you being in Army, Buster, I completely agree, once you're there the decision was made and you're to follow thru for your own sake. No philosophizing there.
Of course the government lies about bullshit. My 2nd deployment wasn't for freedom, edit - but for dubious reasons.
You're asking me to do all of the leg work. Find out if he did indeed have ties to planting the bomb, fly myself all the way to the border, capture him, and then torture him for that information so I can have a clean conscience that the guy deserves it. I can't do all of that by myself.
Anywho, you still haven't answered the question. Don't over complicate it. You for sure know this guy planted or helped plan it. Would you or would not torture him for the location of the nuke?
Thanks buster brown. <3
nietzsche wrote:how obese is him? and is this in the morning? have i had my coffee? because i won't probably be in the mood of lifting heavy objects if i haven't had my coffee.
i would probably ask myself what would be the legal implications.. would i be do time for killing the fat man? sort of like, "we thank you for saving those 5 lives.. but you knew you'll kill this fat father of 4, so, we're taking your home and your car to give to the kids and will give you a reduced sentence of 5 years.. but you're gonna have a record. yeah, cry me a river, you should've thought twice.. those junkies it's not the first time they tie themselves to the rails and cause an accident when the driver needs to switch and go towards the chemical plant. many commuters arrive late to work for these idiots"
when you make the number 5, you sort of need more context lol. Make it my mom instead of 5 randos and i kill the fat guy without hesitation and yell at him "tough luck fatass" while he's falling.
i don't think you're a sociopath.
The test question is meant to be a matter of instinct. I obviously can't sit you in a room, time you, and ask for an answer on the forum. The whole point of the question though is that a sociopath would have 0 problems pushing the fat guy off the train to save five people. I don't think it matters really who's tied to the tracks, rather than just making the decision.
Anyways, same thing as before, you're overcomplicating the question and trying to make it logistical.
nietzsche wrote:I think you're missing my point here. It's not that Abortion is right or wrong. It's that your government is a group of people that think in their own interests first. I'd say 95% of politics are thinking more in how to get another couple of millions for their retirement instead of hwo to make things right. Another 80% of them had had to ask for help along the way to get there.. and have favours to repay. Others were caught doing something illegal along the way and are grabbed by the balls by other politicians or other groups of power.
I'll never understand politics completely and the shady backdoor deals that go on behind it.
What I do know is that without a form of governance, we as a society would implode. Looting and killing would be a norm, nobody would give a shit about their neighbor, so on and so forth.
You can argue that the government as a collective acts on it's own interests but I disagree (at least with ours and several other current governments) that it acts in the interests of it's people, at least to a degree. I simply can look at history and see how we have gotten here today, and it's mostly due to the government listening to the people in some form or another. There are of course crooked politicians. The war on drugs I think is one of the biggest fucking mistakes in recent American history all because Nixon had a hard on for 'Nam. Our system is not perfect. And again, no country is picture perfect either. The government basically decides what's right and what's wrong, but I'm fortunate enough to live in a country to where it gives enough of a shit to where we can voice our opinion about what should be right and wrong.
nietzsche wrote:Government policies are deeply influenced by private interests. You're government or it's top officials in a certain organisation might want something done no matter what.. and the would be willing to go on a "70-30% chance this guy works for a cell" and approve him to be tortured for info.
Debatable. If a policy comes is implemented, you're always going to have winners and losers, it's just a matter of having that policy approved by different legislators. That's why (normally) incredibly shitty bills never see the light of day. Now if you want to argue that people in power are acting in their own self interest or pursuing a specific goal IE: "I want ISIS eliminated," then yeah, I really expect them to resort to whatever resource they can to accomplish that goal. If they have to act on a gambit for a suspected or known terrorist by torturing information, knowing that the information he has is one step closer to accomplishing that goal, to me the ends justify means. That's one entire group gone, no more bombings at concerts, bridges or other populated areas.
Of course there are other notoriously shitty politicians that are going to act on their own self interest to either preserve power or money and what have you. Nixon, again, is a perfect example. I'm not arguing that we're perfect, or that we live in a paradise, but I'd rather live here, where I feel like the government does give a shit about it's people vs living in a third world country where a dictator can kill whomever on a whim just because he feels like it, or I'm not going to get ran over by a tank during a protest, etc.
nietzsche wrote:If you or a family member got caught in that position, tortured because his 8yo is curious and was googling for videos of alqaeda shootings or whatever reason.. would it look fair to you? Or simply a guy in a war, working for your "enemy" and your boss suddenly thinks he's got info.. quickly skypes with a fat Russell Crow having a venti chai late and he gives him green light.. that guy working for your enemy probably has kids, and from his point of view, he's helping his people to avoid being invaded by white dudes disrespectful of it's culture.
I'm not sure if I should ask you to consider all this, I wouldn't even want you to have any second thoughts about your actions. I'm talking of theoretical positions and you've been there. It means, just having my coffee for me.
Well, thankfully it doesn't work like that here, otherwise all those shooters that the FBI had admittedly been monitoring but didn't act on probably wouldn't have happened.
In terms of the whole war thing - War is an ugly business, we can all agree on that. It's not a walk in the park with your dog. The problem with this war vs previous wars is that it's entirely based around Guerilla Warfare. We don't know who is who because the enemy one minute would be firing at us, the next minute, ditch the gun, change clothes and act like nothing happened. Over the years, we came up with systems that track and ID people with their eye iris and finger prints. This was meant to reduce innocent lives being taken or captured, questioned and falsely imprisoned. People make bad calls though. Sometimes it's an incredibly shitty call. Sometimes it's the right one. There are people out there that refuse to follow an order because it looks and more than likely is a really shitty call, others just blindly follow it. I'm also not going to deeply philosophy the people that were killed. I can't go find the guy that killed Dickhut and tell him "He had a wife and child, how could you?" Because his response would probably be something along the lines of us being infidels and that Allah demands us to be purged, blah blah. That's war man, you don't think about that kind of shit because everyone has their reasons to fight and their reasons to want to live, it's been like that since time memorial.
I never would have second thoughts on my actions. What's done is done. I'm not ashamed of it.