US soldier kill 16 civilians in Afghanistan

[PLAYER57832]

The reason why there are Somali pirates in the first place is because of all the illegal dumping of toxic and radioactive waste by foreign corporations in once bountiful fishing grounds of the coast of that country. Organized crime lords recruit and arm desperate ex-fishermen who have lost their livelihood and send them out to loot while they sit back on the shore exposing themselves to little or no risk.

JRock

Which is exactly why I keep saying there is no such thing as ignoring the environment in favor of jobs. You protect the environment or you are letting a few people get very wealthy by taking the future from thousands, millions (carrying it out in generations) in the future.

YET... too many people believe the old saw "gotta support the job creators"... and the rest is for "when we have time and money".

[BigBallinStalin]

Or allowing a business to dump nuclear waste off of the coast of a poor African country?

What more is there to say? This stuff happens every day in countries all over the place. Nobody cares until it directly affects them. Millions continue to starve to death in Africa while the US cannot meet it's treaty obligations with it's own Native Americans, and yet the US sent it's wealth to Japan to help them recover from the earthquake. I see that there is something deeply hypocritical about even our most sincere attempts at helping other people.

Shall we abolish foreign aid?

[thegreekdog]

Or allowing a business to dump nuclear waste off of the coast of a poor African country?

What more is there to say? This stuff happens every day in countries all over the place. Nobody cares until it directly affects them. Millions continue to starve to death in Africa while the US cannot meet it's treaty obligations with it's own Native Americans, and yet the US sent it's wealth to Japan to help them recover from the earthquake. I see that there is something deeply hypocritical about even our most sincere attempts at helping other people.

Shall we abolish foreign aid?

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

[Woodruff]

Or allowing a business to dump nuclear waste off of the coast of a poor African country?

What more is there to say? This stuff happens every day in countries all over the place. Nobody cares until it directly affects them. Millions continue to starve to death in Africa while the US cannot meet it's treaty obligations with it's own Native Americans, and yet the US sent it's wealth to Japan to help them recover from the earthquake. I see that there is something deeply hypocritical about even our most sincere attempts at helping other people.

Shall we abolish foreign aid?

I'm having difficulty coming up with a lot of reasons why we should continue dishing out foreign aid, given our current financial straits.

[Symmetry]

Or allowing a business to dump nuclear waste off of the coast of a poor African country?

What more is there to say? This stuff happens every day in countries all over the place. Nobody cares until it directly affects them. Millions continue to starve to death in Africa while the US cannot meet it's treaty obligations with it's own Native Americans, and yet the US sent it's wealth to Japan to help them recover from the earthquake. I see that there is something deeply hypocritical about even our most sincere attempts at helping other people.

Shall we abolish foreign aid?

I'm having difficulty coming up with a lot of reasons why we should continue dishing out foreign aid, given our current financial straits.

Hmm, limiting it seems a sensible financial constraint, but discontinuing it seems a bit different. That covers a lot of ground.

[PLAYER57832]

Or allowing a business to dump nuclear waste off of the coast of a poor African country?

What more is there to say? This stuff happens every day in countries all over the place. Nobody cares until it directly affects them. Millions continue to starve to death in Africa while the US cannot meet it's treaty obligations with it's own Native Americans, and yet the US sent it's wealth to Japan to help them recover from the earthquake. I see that there is something deeply hypocritical about even our most sincere attempts at helping other people.

Shall we abolish foreign aid?

I'm having difficulty coming up with a lot of reasons why we should continue dishing out foreign aid, given our current financial straits.

I think it depends on how the aid is administered. GOOD aid is far more effective than bombs at gaining us friends and thus ensuring our security. Also, we have to recognize that US companies are, at least in part, responsible for some of the harms these people are experiencing. US companies and, sometimes the US government directly. (not necessarily talking about very recent events there).

[Woodruff]

Or allowing a business to dump nuclear waste off of the coast of a poor African country?

What more is there to say? This stuff happens every day in countries all over the place. Nobody cares until it directly affects them. Millions continue to starve to death in Africa while the US cannot meet it's treaty obligations with it's own Native Americans, and yet the US sent it's wealth to Japan to help them recover from the earthquake. I see that there is something deeply hypocritical about even our most sincere attempts at helping other people.

Shall we abolish foreign aid?

I'm having difficulty coming up with a lot of reasons why we should continue dishing out foreign aid, given our current financial straits.

I think it depends on how the aid is administered. GOOD aid is far more effective than bombs at gaining us friends and thus ensuring our security. Also, we have to recognize that US companies are, at least in part, responsible for some of the harms these people are experiencing. US companies and, sometimes the US government directly. (not necessarily talking about very recent events there).

Are you genetically unable to make a post that doesn't fucking bash on US companies?

[Qwert]

wow, US marine want to use SS insignia,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16973868

---------------------------------------------------
nothing new in US bombardment,another eight terrorist are killed in Afghanistan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/world ... anddefense

[Qwert]

its so amazing, how US soldier find a way to warm up situacion drasticaly in Afghanistan,Just when you think that nothing new ,US soldier burn kuran,and provoke riots all around afghanistan. Two US soldier killed in riots.
These person who burn kuran in afghanistan are not so smart.

[Qwert]

new news-us soldier kill 16 civilians.
Consider that in all previous situation where US soldier kill civilians,nobody get prison,i think that in these case to US soldier will be free, and transport to home for relax of all these stresfull situation. Afgan civilian need to blame for been in war zones. Clear case of colateral damage.
Afgan people all ready get satisfaction-regret and apologies from US goverment, what they need more to get?

[Juan_Bottom]

new news-us soldier kill 16 civilians.
Consider that in all previous situation where US soldier kill civilians,nobody get prison,i think that in these case to US soldier will be free, and transport to home for relax of all these stresfull situation. Afgan civilian need to blame for been in war zones. Clear case of colateral damage.
Afgan people all ready get satisfaction-regret and apologies from US goverment, what they need more to get?

There have been public cases where US soldiers have been prosecuted by the US government for war crimes. This base (Lewis-McChord) was last in the news for the "kill team" that targeted civilians.
http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2011/04/13/the-kill-team

Anyway, there have been others, though anyone would be hard pressed to find the cases with google. Maybe Saxi knows why, I dunno.

I don't understand WTF is going on over there anyway. I know that recently the Stars & Stripes reported that doctors have been covering up and denying cases of PTSD to save the military money. And we should also remember that this invasion has been going on for 10 years now. Maybe the military is starting to show some real stress fractures.
But then again, maybe there are some real sociopaths with chevrons on their arms.

[Qwert]

good news, Soldier are evacuated from hostile countrie, and probably after short trial,he will be found not guilty due mental ilness(good development of event for US and bad for Afghan people).
Who knows how many similar killings are cover up,and hide from world,we will never know that.

[AndyDufresne]

good news, Soldier are evacuated from hostile countrie, and probably after short trial,he will be found not guilty due mental ilness(good development of event for US and bad for Afghan people).
Who knows how many similar killings are cover up,and hide from world,we will never know that.

One of the interesting elements of this whole saddening story is that this has probably gone on for countless centuries across the world by soldiers of all armies, and with the advent of increased media coverage of war from Vietnam on we will probably continue to hear more about these sorts of stories.


--Andy

[Qwert]

in wikipedia i find story abouth my lai killing of vietnamese civilain, close to 500 are killed and nobody are found guilty,even when you had US Army photograph who shot pictures,who actualy been witness of these massacre,and still nobody get prison. Its look that history repeat again.

[comic boy]

new news-us soldier kill 16 civilians.
Consider that in all previous situation where US soldier kill civilians,nobody get prison,i think that in these case to US soldier will be free, and transport to home for relax of all these stresfull situation. Afgan civilian need to blame for been in war zones. Clear case of colateral damage.
Afgan people all ready get satisfaction-regret and apologies from US goverment, what they need more to get?

This incident was a tragedy and I feel greatly both for those who were murdered and for Afghanistan as a whole , for surely it has dealt a fatal blow in the battle of hearts and minds.
The soldier who commited these crimes will be punished , just as previous offenders have been ,of that I am certain, I really dont know what else you expect the US to do other than express deep regret.
It is a shame that you feel so bitter towards the US and NATO , its not a healthy condition and you really need to focus on those who really caused the Serb nation to be humiliated , its genocidal leaders.

[saxitoxin]

new news-us soldier kill 16 civilians.
Consider that in all previous situation where US soldier kill civilians,nobody get prison,i think that in these case to US soldier will be free, and transport to home for relax of all these stresfull situation. Afgan civilian need to blame for been in war zones. Clear case of colateral damage.
Afgan people all ready get satisfaction-regret and apologies from US goverment, what they need more to get?

This incident was a tragedy and I feel greatly both for those who were murdered and for Afghanistan as a whole , for surely it has dealt a fatal blow in the battle of hearts and minds[Propaganda Campaign].

Qwert - comic boy went into militaryindustrialese for a moment so I translated back to English.

[comic boy]

Call it propoganda if you will , its merely semantics, the point is that that every civilian who dies makes the job of the US military more difficult. If you take the view that the US leadership are a group of blithering idiots , who deliberately score own goals , then I suppose Qwert may have a point.

[Juan_Bottom]

The US military is saying that the guilty party will be eligible for the death penalty for this crime. The suspect has been flown to Kuwait.

[Qwert]

Comic boy,you very good know that people who commite crime in Bosnia, all leaders are in hague,and get prison sentence.
Now here even low ranked Soldier,will be hard to get proper punishment.
Bigest problem its that international court dont have right to trial in these situation,consider how haditha case resolve,im dont belive that these soldier will get any kind of serious punishment.
Afghan Goverment want that trial be in hes country,because crime hepend in afghanistan,not in kywait or US.
Only when Us troops move away from Afghanistan,then i belive that these kind of incident will not hepend anymore.

[Juan_Bottom]

Comic boy,you very good know that people who commite crime in Bosnia, all leaders are in hague,and get prison sentence.
Now here even low ranked Soldier,will be hard to get proper punishment.
Bigest problem its that international court dont have right to trial in these situation,consider how haditha case resolve,im dont belive that these soldier will get any kind of serious punishment.
Afghan Goverment want that trial be in hes country,because crime hepend in afghanistan,not in kywait or US.
Only when Us troops move away from Afghanistan,then i belive that these kind of incident will not hepend anymore.

US laws and our personal agreements with many foreign countries state that American soldiers cannot be tried by host countries. Even Japan cannot try US soldiers without permission. I believe that there is a technicality here also in that Afghanistan is not exactly a stable sovereign country.

American public opinion is overwhelmingly against this unnamed gunmen. Everyone here wants him hanged, so you don't have to worry about us letting him off. And remember, the last two shooters from this base received 24 years to life in prison.

[saxitoxin]

Comic boy,you very good know that people who commite crime in Bosnia, all leaders are in hague,and get prison sentence.
Now here even low ranked Soldier,will be hard to get proper punishment.
Bigest problem its that international court dont have right to trial in these situation,consider how haditha case resolve,im dont belive that these soldier will get any kind of serious punishment.
Afghan Goverment want that trial be in hes country,because crime hepend in afghanistan,not in kywait or US.
Only when Us troops move away from Afghanistan,then i belive that these kind of incident will not hepend anymore.

US laws and our personal agreements with many foreign countries state that American soldiers cannot be tried by host countries. Even Japan cannot try US soldiers without permission. I believe that there is a technicality here also in that Afghanistan is not exactly a stable sovereign country.

American public opinion is overwhelmingly against this unnamed gunmen. Everyone here wants him hanged, so you don't have to worry about us letting him off. And remember, the last two shooters from this base received 24 years to life in prison.

What kind of prison sentences did the civillian leadership get? Did Bush or Obama get sent to prison? Serbia held their civillian leadership accountable.

There's no justice in hanging an enlisted man. The people who should be held accountable, the civillian leadership, will be making a million dollars per speech when this SSG is on death row.

[Juan_Bottom]

Since WWII the enlisted man has been accountable to his conscience. You can refuse an order, be it at great risk. Further, our grunts are all volunteers.

The three soldiers that we are speaking of all pre-meditated murder on a personal level. None of them were obeying orders, they were just being d*cks. There's definitely some justice in punishing these dishonorable soldiers. But Obama can't be held accountable for all the civilian deaths he caused because they label those deaths as collateral damage... The courts can't argue with that. He's in power so he writes the rules of war. I'm happy to join in any lost-cause revolutions here, but you'll be hard pressed to find others who will walk away from their xbox and vote.... let alone live in the woods and shoot bad government guys.

[saxitoxin]

Since WWII the enlisted man has been accountable to his conscience. You can refuse an order, be it at great risk. Further, our grunts are all volunteers.

The three soldiers that we are speaking of all pre-meditated murder on a personal level. None of them were obeying orders, they were just being d*cks. There's definitely some justice in punishing these dishonorable soldiers. But Obama can't be held accountable for all the civilian deaths he caused because they label those deaths as collateral damage... The courts can't argue with that. He's in power so he writes the rules of war. I'm happy to join in any lost-cause revolutions here, but you'll be hard pressed to find others who will walk away from their xbox and vote.... let alone live in the woods and shoot bad government guys.

The soldier in question was returned to duty after suffering a traumatic head injury. That was a command staff decision taken in order to fulfill U.S. regime policy, not an individual or tactical action.

[Juan_Bottom]

His name hasn't even been released yet. He's labeled only as a suspect.

[saxitoxin]

His name hasn't even been released yet. He's labeled only as a suspect.

So? We've already tried and convicted every soldier in the Syrian army based on a grainy YouTube video. By western evidentiary standards we don't need things like names or dates or details.

If I were judge, based on info from press reports, I would sentence this soldier to treatment at a private hospital in Newport Beach followed by release. I would sentence Obama and Panetta to life in a rock quarry without parole and an $8 million fine each (they both have the money).