Conquer Club

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_child_pepper_sprayed

Frankly, I think the cops did the right thing there. But something needs to be done with that "mother." The kid should at the VERY least be getting counseling, but no. Instead, he gets to go on TV for his behavior.

Edt- Here's the video on thee story too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m0yYphul18

What bull. next time, bring the rubber bullets in for that little piss. I don't care if you are mentally challenged, positive punishment is known in psychology as the most effective deterrent. I'm sick of people hiding behind the political correctness; all these petty excuses for kids who have never received a proper beating is outrageous.

They should both be sterilised as soon as possible. Or placed on a remote island with a pallet of spam.

I think there is a problem, it's with Aiden and the school.

Really?

I bet the other kind of mace would have solved this problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_(club)

muy_thaiguy wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_child_pepper_sprayed

Frankly, I think the cops did the right thing there. But something needs to be done with that "mother." The kid should at the VERY least be getting counseling, but no. Instead, he gets to go on TV for his behavior.

I agree. In fact, in the report I read, the mother's initial reaction to the macing was to say "You probably deserved it". But then she started seeing dollar signs, I think.

GAME OVER:

When asked about the pepper spray and what he did, Aidan said: "I kind of deserved it."

Best use of pepper spray in quite some time

Mr_Adams wrote:What bull. next time, bring the rubber bullets in for that little piss. I don't care if you are mentally challenged, positive punishment is known in psychology as the most effective deterrent. I'm sick of people hiding behind the political correctness; all these petty excuses for kids who have never received a proper beating is outrageous.

+1

JR

Woodruff wrote:

muy_thaiguy wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_child_pepper_sprayed

Frankly, I think the cops did the right thing there. But something needs to be done with that "mother." The kid should at the VERY least be getting counseling, but no. Instead, he gets to go on TV for his behavior.

Speaking as both the parent of a child with (far milder) ADHD AND the close friend of parents with a child who has similar behavior issues, I have a few thoughts.

#1. The school should have and obviously did not have a plan in place to deal with this child. No one is going to tell me this was utterly unpredictable. Something has happened previously. The school had warning and should have had plans in place. Things they could have done range from calling the parents to deal with the child to physically restraining the child (come on, he is EIGHT... and they have more than a few adults there!) to having a "safe" room, etc.

#2. Even before that , they should have kept track of and had an idea of his "triggers". If the triggers simply could not be avoided in the school setting, then they needed to form another plan to deal with the child, be it "wrap arounds" or a residential care program.

#3. The POLICE are generally not trained to deal with such situations effectively. Perhaps they ought to be, but to have called them is generally not appropriate. All police typically understand is force, though let me be clear that here are police programs that teach other techniques, those folks obviously were not called in this situation. Likely it was just the nearest cop on duty. At least they did not pull a gun! Heaven help that community if they deal with adults in this manner!

#4. I am guessing, but having seen too many of these situations, chances are the school just did not want to deal with this. Woodruff, other teachers, I absolutely understand there are great school districts and great teachers out there, but there are a fair number who seem to think that their primary job is to "assert control" over children, not to teach them. Too many teachers seem to think it is their job to push kids' buttons so they can crack down on them, instead of simply avoiding situations.

Bottom line.. this is a screwed up kid in a screwed up family going to a screwed up school unfortunately placed in a pretty average police department's jurisdiction.

Mr_Adams wrote:What bull. next time, bring the rubber bullets in for that little piss. I don't care if you are mentally challenged, positive punishment is known in psychology as the most effective deterrent. I'm sick of people hiding behind the political correctness; all these petty excuses for kids who have never received a proper beating is outrageous.

This is not about providing excuses. Even an average child just does not thing things through the way adults do. If you have a child with brain issues, they just plain may not be capable of even stopping what they are doing long enough to understand there will be a consequence.

This is what happens when you tell a 2 year old not to close the door when they are reaching to do it. Telling them "don't slam that door" sounds simple, but the truth is you are asking them to understand how to stop AND to think about something else to do. Even many 4 year olds just cannot do that. If, instead of saying "don't slam that door", you tell them "softly", or even just "STOP!" you actually get a better response, because you are just telling them what to do.

For a child with a brain disability, those processes don't work correctly. Beating them won't forge those connections anymore than beating a child who limps will suddenly make them walk straight. In some cases, the brain can be retrained or medicated to operate well. The goal is to keep the child from hurting themselves, keep them learning until that process of brain retraining can be completed. This is like putting a child with a broken leg a cast and then therapy to rebuild the strength in their muscles, rather than telling them to "go play basketball and if you fail we will punish you".

If you ahve a kid who throws tantrums when he has to stand in front of the class, then you either set things up so that child does not have to stand in front of the class until the issue is solved OR you place the child in a different setting. Usually that "different setting" is a residential treatment center. I think most people can understand that children might do better at home in many cases. If the only accomodation that is required is something like not having the child stand up in class, do a different homework or such, that is not unreasonable to expect.

Is this child in that situation? Are his problems such that some minor accomodations would allow him to stay at home and in school? I do not know. It might well be. Then again, it might be that this child's situation is so serious that he needs some other educational situation. I do know that we have had more than one similar type case in our school and the school district absolutely did NOT respond well. I also knw of several cases in other school districts where the kids were managed quite well and wound up becoming "regular" productive citizens.

It is absolutely true that many kids do need more discipline. But it is absolutely untrue that most children who act out in this manner just "need a swat to the rear". This severe a reaction is more likely from a brain injury, not just lack of discipline.

Army of GOD wrote:GAME OVER:

When asked about the pepper spray and what he did, Aidan said: "I kind of deserved it."

Best use of pepper spray in quite some time

Johnny Rockets wrote:

Mr_Adams wrote:What bull. next time, bring the rubber bullets in for that little piss. I don't care if you are mentally challenged, positive punishment is known in psychology as the most effective deterrent. I'm sick of people hiding behind the political correctness; all these petty excuses for kids who have never received a proper beating is outrageous.

+1

JR

I hope neither of you ever have a child with a brain disability.
Then again.. maybe being around one would teach you something.

Mr_Adams wrote:all these petty excuses for kids who have never received a proper beating is outrageous.

Wow, what a genius idea. Here we are wasting all this money to try figure out treatments for kids (and adults) with psychological and neurological problems, and all this time we could have solved all of their problems simply by giving them "proper beatings!"

Truly, you deserve a nobel for this revolutionary idea.

Can you elaborate on the exact method? What exactly is a "proper" beating and how is it different from an "improper" one?

Can I "properly" beat my wife if she refuses to cook my dinner and wash my clothes? What is the correct way to apply "proper beating" here?

What about babies? You know, those pink monkeys that have just came out of some chick's vagina. I sometimes get irritated in the bus when they cry so loud. Can I use this "proper beating" technique of yours to shut them up?

I've heard children are like dogs. You can beat the bad out of them. Mace should just be the first step.

I suppose hitting one with a mace could be the first step in an example to the other kids. The second would be making them clean it up?

Violence never really resolves anything.

puddytat wrote:Violence never really resolves anything.

Another mindless drone repeating the phrases you were brought up to repeat. When a peaceable solution is available, it is preferable, but sometimes you have to strike, and strike hard. So hard that the threat will never be able to strike back. Or, in this case, hard enough to dispel future actions.

Mr_Adams wrote:

puddytat wrote:Violence never really resolves anything.

Another mindless drone repeating the phrases you were brought up to repeat. When a peaceable solution is available, it is preferable, but sometimes you have to strike, and strike hard. So hard that the threat will never be able to strike back. Or, in this case, hard enough to dispel future actions.

I see, so if your child breaks their leg, then just swatting them hard enough to make them walk is the solutions?

Good to know.....

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Mr_Adams wrote:

puddytat wrote:Violence never really resolves anything.

Another mindless drone repeating the phrases you were brought up to repeat. When a peaceable solution is available, it is preferable, but sometimes you have to strike, and strike hard. So hard that the threat will never be able to strike back. Or, in this case, hard enough to dispel future actions.

I see, so if your child breaks their leg, the just swatting them hard enough to make them walk is the solutions?

Good to know.....

non sequitur.

Oh, that's right... you think brain injuries are just "liberal fictions".

PLAYER57832 wrote:Oh, that's right... you think brain injuries are just "liberal fictions".

This kid had no brain injury. enough with your red herring tactics.

Mr_Adams wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:Oh, that's right... you think brain injuries are just "liberal fictions".

This kid had no brain injury. enough with your red herring tactics.

I see, so its your theory that a perfectly normal child would act that way? Not even close!

Yes, he did have an injury.. it just might not have happen as the result of an accident.

This kid is not normal. That much is clear. A normal kid does not act that way, no matter what the incitement. Dealing with that kid as if he were normal makes as much sense and telling a kid born without legs "too bad, if you cannot run that 50 yard dash, we are going to have to punish you".

I am among the first to accept/agree that things like ADHD are over-diagnose, but some of that is because the schools keep getting so much more structured and deman only one particular set of skills. They ONLY want kids who can sit for hours, read and look at the blackboard without trouble. Sorry, but even most fully normal kids just don't fit that mold.

Who says a normal kid won't act that way? Children from unstructured homes have a tendency to react with volition towards situations which don't go their way, if they have that chemical make up. It's like a married man saying his hormones tell him to chase after other women. He doesn't because he has learned that it isn't right. This kid needs to be taught that reacting with violence isn't right. If he is some how disabled, it may be harder for him to learn than others, but he needs to learn the lesson, and not punishing that kind of behavior is NOT going to help.

As to your final paragraph, I agree.

Mr_Adams wrote:

puddytat wrote:Violence never really resolves anything.

Another mindless drone repeating the phrases you were brought up to repeat. When a peaceable solution is available, it is preferable, but sometimes you have to strike, and strike hard. So hard that the threat will never be able to strike back. Or, in this case, hard enough to dispel future actions.

And what a threat an 8 year old is.

Mr_Adams wrote:

puddytat wrote:Violence never really resolves anything.

Another mindless drone repeating the phrases you were brought up to repeat. When a peaceable solution is available, it is preferable, but sometimes you have to strike, and strike hard. So hard that the threat will never be able to strike back. Or, in this case, hard enough to dispel future actions.

Pot calling the kettle black?

"Yar - The only way to teach these kids some discipline is to belt the living shit out of them! Yar-"

I saw that one on the news, and it had some interesting twists.

Granted the kid was eight, so it really is unfair to pay attention to exactly what he said, but when first interviewed he mentioned wanting to hurt the teachers and recalled it quite vividly.

Then when the poor kid was interviewed the second time he was asked what he remembered, and he answered something akin to:

"not much but most of it." An easy mistake given the pressure, but I certainly couldnt help think that his mom, and rightfully so, probably suggested the whole remembering bodily harm part of the story.

Again, were talking about an eight year old with behavioral problems, in an interview on TV, so its just ridiculous to hold him responsible for what he might say, but it certainly was interesting nonetheless.

AAFitz wrote:I saw that one on the news, and it had some interesting twists.

Granted the kid was eight, so it really is unfair to pay attention to exactly what he said, but when first interviewed he mentioned wanting to hurt the teachers and recalled it quite vividly.

Then when the poor kid was interviewed the second time he was asked what he remembered, and he answered something akin to:

"not much but most of it." An easy mistake given the pressure, but I certainly couldnt help think that his mom, and rightfully so, probably suggested the whole remembering bodily harm part of the story.

Again, were talking about an eight year old with behavioral problems, in an interview on TV, so its just ridiculous to hold him responsible for what he might say, but it certainly was interesting nonetheless.

Oh, I absolutely agree. This mother needs help.

Hey, no problem! Let's just apply the Mr Adams method and give both the boy and the mother a Proper Beating™! That should solve everything.

natty_dread wrote:Hey, no problem! Let's just apply the Mr Adams method and give both the boy and the mother a Proper Beating™! That should solve everything.

Are we done with the demagoguery?