Conquer Club

That's pretty much how I see it. This isn't to dismiss any of the other huge changes that took place- the Arab Spring would be the other major one, but I think that's going to play out over the next year and I rather wait and see what happens.

But yeah- a more tolerant society for homosexuality is the real game changer I see occurring in 2011. A heartfelt campaign against the bullying of homosexuals in schools, recognition of civil unions and marriages, foreign policies that acknowledge human rights abuses against gay men and women, DADT repealed in the most powerful military force in the world, a growing sense that the next generation is largely in support of equal rights for homosexuals, combined with a lessening of moral authority from churches and politicians that have been rocked by sexual scandals...

There's much that can be criticised- I'm making some fairly sweeping generalizations, but we do seem to have reached a kind of tipping point. Or should be expect 2012 to be a year of backlash?

I think 2011 has set a sort of perfect storm for LGBT movements in 2012, I think. I found a nice summary of 2011 LGBT events at AddictingInfo:

2011: A Great Year for LGBT Equality

-rd

They should be called Gay Lefts.

Gays are evil and left-sided things are evil, or something.

I SUPPORT GAY LEFTS

huh?

rdsrds2120 wrote:I think 2011 has set a sort of perfect storm for LGBT movements in 2012, I think. I found a nice summary of 2011 events at AddictingInfo:

2011: A Great Year for LGBT Equality

-rd

Great summary, thanks for that. Personally, I do think there will be a backlash this year. I suspect that it will be very counter-productive for those who oppose gay rights though. The policies that have been put in place were criticised by those opponent as causing havoc- destroying military effectiveness, destroying marriage, destroying society. As none of that stuff has happened, the arguments against those policies seem increasingly weak, and often mendacious.

Combined with more openly gay celebrities in the media, greater access to the internet, and a more comfortable situation in which to come out, basically more people know a gay person than ever before.

If a backlash comes, it'll hit not just homosexuals, but everyone who knows a gay man or woman. And that's more people than ever.

Army of GOD wrote:They should be called Gay Lefts.

Gays are evil and left-sided things are evil, or something.

I SUPPORT GAY LEFTS

Left sided things are sinister, not evil. Who taught you etymology?

Aside from marriage, what other rights are being denied to gays?

Ugh, this is so fucking stupid. The whole thing should be a complete non-issue. I mean, who gives a shit? It has no impact on my life AT ALL if two homosexuals want to get married.

The worst part is that the longer this crap drags on, the further it'll reinforce homosexuals' feelings of being institutionally victimized. It'll be the worst possible outcome if some homosexual civil rights group gets big enough as a result of the fight over marriage that even after it inevitably eventually gets recognized by the government, they then self-perpetuate to protect the jobs of the people in the administration of the group. Like MADD. Seriously, MADD is the worst. They formed to get the legal drinking age raised, they did, but then they never disbanded?

pimpdave wrote:Aside from marriage, what other rights are being denied to gays?

Ugh, this is so fucking stupid. The whole thing should be a complete non-issue. I mean, who gives a shit? It has no impact on my life AT ALL if two homosexuals want to get married.

The worst part is that the longer this crap drags on, the further it'll reinforce homosexuals' feelings of being victimized. It'll be the worst possible outcome if some homosexual civil rights group gets big enough as a result of the fight over marriage that even after it inevitably eventually gets recognized by the government, they then self-perpetuate to protect the jobs of the people in the administration of the group. Like MADD. Seriously, MADD is the worst. They formed to get the legal drinking age raised, they did, but then they never disbanded?

It's a crime punishable by death in some countries, so there's the right to life. Pursuit of happiness is kind of a big one, although that's a bit more complex. Discrimination in the workplace will likely be another big issue- especially when the workplace is run by a religious organisation.

In the UK, there was also a debate about providing services to homosexuals, notably when a couple refused to allow a homosexual couple to stay in their hotel solely because they were gay. I understand that adoption rights are also an issue, and there are issues over education in schools.

So, no, not just marriage rights are at issue.

Symmetry wrote:

rdsrds2120 wrote:I think 2011 has set a sort of perfect storm for LGBT movements in 2012, I think. I found a nice summary of 2011 events at AddictingInfo:

2011: A Great Year for LGBT Equality

-rd

Great summary, thanks for that. Personally, I do think there will be a backlash this year. I suspect that it will be very counter-productive for those who oppose gay rights though. The policies that have been put in place were criticised by those opponent as causing havoc- destroying military effectiveness, destroying marriage, destroying society. As none of that stuff has happened, the arguments against those policies seem increasingly weak, and often mendacious.

Combined with more openly gay celebrities in the media, greater access to the internet, and a more comfortable situation in which to come out, basically more people know a gay person than ever before.

If a backlash comes, it'll hit not just homosexuals, but everyone who knows a gay man or woman. And that's more people than ever.

Hmm...I think I'm misinterpreting your use of 'backlash'. What exactly are you expecting to happen? Are you saying that the amount of activism for gay rights will go down or...the policies will be repealed? I'm not sure exactly what you're implying here.

-rd

I think the LGBT cartel's biggest achievement was in 1974 or 1975. Once they succesfully protested an end to scientific inquiry into the topic of homosexuality, the only hurdle left to mount was the relatively low bar of religious nuts.

If earthquakes got together and succesfully demonized geology as a form of witchcraft, as LGBT did psychiatry, the majority of people - who had no firsthand experience with earthquakes - would probably be more amenable to them. Especially if the only people skeptical of the positive or neutral value of earthquakes were wild eyed, costume wearing preachers.

Saxi all I have to say on that is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc_wjp262RY

If experts like Tom Cruise are against it...it must be evil.

Symmetry wrote:That's pretty much how I see it. This isn't to dismiss any of the other huge changes that took place- the Arab Spring would be the other major one, but I think that's going to play out over the next year and I rather wait and see what happens.

For my money, it's "The Year Americans Lost Our Rights". Yeah, I know....too Americanocentric.

pimpdave wrote:Like MADD. Seriously, MADD is the worst. They formed to get the legal drinking age raised, they did, but then they never disbanded?

MADD really is pretty bad, I agree. They piss me off from time to time, and I don't drink alcohol at all.

Symmetry wrote: A heartfelt campaign against the bullying of homosexuals in schools?

people should learn to take their beating in the changing rooms the same as everyone else. Rat tails in the shower and handing over your lunch money are jovial, rite of passage memories that they will miss out on if they are mollycoddled.

Plus, pandering to them will only make the arrogant and prevent them from learning about the dangers of the real world.

barackattack wrote:

Symmetry wrote: A heartfelt campaign against the bullying of homosexuals in schools?

Gay people should learn to take their beating in the changing rooms the same as everyone else. Rat tails in the shower and handing over your lunch money are jovial, rite of passage memories that they will miss out on if they are mollycoddled.

Plus, pandering to them will only make the arrogant and prevent them from learning about the dangers of the real world.

wow, what a witty post really.


anyway, about the OP there are like 20 things that happened in 2011 much more important than what happened with gay rights. If things are going in the right direction for you guys great. Dominique Strauss Khan's sex life this year has impacted way more on my life than that in 2011.

betiko wrote:

barackattack wrote:

Symmetry wrote: A heartfelt campaign against the bullying of homosexuals in schools?

Gay people should learn to take their beating in the changing rooms the same as everyone else. Rat tails in the shower and handing over your lunch money are jovial, rite of passage memories that they will miss out on if they are mollycoddled.

Plus, pandering to them will only make the arrogant and prevent them from learning about the dangers of the real world.

wow, what a witty post really.


anyway, about the OP there are like 20 things that happened in 2011 much more important than what happened with gay rights. If things are going in the right direction for you guys great. Dominique Strauss Khan's sex life this year has impacted way more on my life than that in 2011.

Oh noes... did Dominique try it on with you as well? The flirt.

betiko wrote:

barackattack wrote:

Symmetry wrote: A heartfelt campaign against the bullying of homosexuals in schools?

Gay people should learn to take their beating in the changing rooms the same as everyone else. Rat tails in the shower and handing over your lunch money are jovial, rite of passage memories that they will miss out on if they are mollycoddled.

Plus, pandering to them will only make the arrogant and prevent them from learning about the dangers of the real world.

wow, what a witty post really.


anyway, about the OP there are like 20 things that happened in 2011 much more important than what happened with gay rights. If things are going in the right direction for you guys great. Dominique Strauss Khan's sex life this year has impacted way more on my life than that in 2011.

You seem to be missing the point. Your arguments are kind of vague. As I said in the OP, I'm happy for my post to be criticised, but saying that there are "like" 20 more important things without listing them seems a bit weak.

I am a little puzzled as to why you would rate a French politician's sex life as more important though. I'm not the only poster to find that particular statement odd, as you will see from Mr Attack's post above. It does require a bit of explanation if it's to stand as a reasonable point.

I can find 20 headlines that striked me more this year, so many things happened:

-tsunami in japan
-nuclear leak in fukushima
-revolution in tunisia
-revolution in egypt
-revolution in lybia
-Prince William's wedding
-Oussama Ben Laden killed
-DSK, head of the IMF and favorite to make it to president in the french 2012 elections is arrested and involved in a huge sex scandal
-News of the world scandal fragilizing Murdoch's empire and scotland yard
-killings in Oslo by a psychopath
-Riots in London
-Amy Winehouse's death
-Gaddafi's murder
-death of Kim Jong Il
-the world reached the milestone of 7 billion inhabitants
-Palestinia has been recognized by the Unesco
-Spanish elections advanced and won by the oposition
-tropical storm in philipines that made over 1000 victims
-American military forces retreat from Irak after 8 years of ocupation
-russian plane crash with a complete hockey team killing 43 people
-euro crisis and greece escaping bankrupcy
-Syrian repression killing hundreds of dicidents
-Riots in Russia to protest against Putine's possible cheats in elections and not leaving the power

And DSK was not a french politician, he was the head of the IMF at the time, which is rather a big thing. He was deciding the future of a whole country's future with Merkel just at the moment of the scandal, Greece.

betiko wrote:that struck me more

fix'd

betiko wrote:I can find 20 headlines that striked me more this year, so many things happened:

-tsunami in japan
-nuclear leak in fukushima
-revolution in tunisia
-revolution in egypt
-revolution in lybia
-Prince William's wedding
-Oussama Ben Laden killed
-DSK, head of the IMF and favorite to make it to president in the french 2012 elections is arrested and involved in a huge sex scandal
-News of the world scandal fragilizing Murdoch's empire and scotland yard
-killings in Oslo by a psychopath
-Riots in London
-Amy Winehouse's death
-Gaddafi's murder
-death of Kim Jong Il
-the world reached the milestone of 7 billion inhabitants
-Palestinia has been recognized by the Unesco
-Spanish elections advanced and won by the oposition
-tropical storm in philipines that made over 1000 victims
-American military forces retreat from Irak after 8 years of ocupation
-russian plane crash with a complete hockey team killing 43 people
-euro crisis and greece escaping bankrupcy
-Syrian repression killing hundreds of dicidents
-Riots in Russia to protest against Putine's possible cheats in elections and not leaving the power

And DSK was not a french politician, he was the head of the IMF at the time, which is rather a big thing. He was deciding the future of a whole country's future with Merkel just at the moment of the scandal, Greece.

That's mostly fair, although I'd disagree with saying that a lot of those are as important in the long term. Still, it's fair to consider them points of note, and certainly the Euro crisis is a big contender for a real game changer.

Perhaps I should put my point in a different way- would you post a thread, looking back on 2011, saying that it was the year of Amy Winehouse's death?

Yeah many of those were good but Amy Winehouse? Really?

2011 will always be the year I realised just how much satisfaction I got out of belonging to the 1%.

rockfist wrote:Yeah many of those were good but Amy Winehouse? Really?

Ok I said at least 20 and if you count there are 23 headlines there!
so you can remove amy whinehouse (I was living close to her in camden at the time so it did kind of feel like a big thing), prince william's wedding and whatever else you guys want, I said i'd go for 20. I still think an unusual amout of important things happened in 2011. no offense to gay rights; even if you remove 15 events from those, I will not remember 2011 as the year for gay rights. For me the number 1 thing is probably what happened in all the arab world.

pimpdave wrote:Aside from marriage, what other rights are being denied to gays?

Ugh, this is so fucking stupid. The whole thing should be a complete non-issue. I mean, who gives a shit? It has no impact on my life AT ALL if two homosexuals want to get married.

The worst part is that the longer this crap drags on, the further it'll reinforce homosexuals' feelings of being institutionally victimized. It'll be the worst possible outcome if some homosexual civil rights group gets big enough as a result of the fight over marriage that even after it inevitably eventually gets recognized by the government, they then self-perpetuate to protect the jobs of the people in the administration of the group. Like MADD. Seriously, MADD is the worst. They formed to get the legal drinking age raised, they did, but then they never disbanded?

This, and...

saxitoxin wrote:I think the LGBT cartel's biggest achievement was in 1974 or 1975. Once they succesfully protested an end to scientific inquiry into the topic of homosexuality, the only hurdle left to mount was the relatively low bar of religious nuts.

If earthquakes got together and succesfully demonized geology as a form of witchcraft, as LGBT did psychiatry, the majority of people - who had no firsthand experience with earthquakes - would probably be more amenable to them. Especially if the only people skeptical of the positive or neutral value of earthquakes were wild eyed, costume wearing preachers.

this.

betiko wrote:

rockfist wrote:Yeah many of those were good but Amy Winehouse? Really?

Ok I said at least 20 and if you count there are 23 headlines there!
so you can remove amy whinehouse (I was living close to her in camden at the time so it did kind of feel like a big thing), prince william's wedding and whatever else you guys want, I said i'd go for 20. I still think an unusual amout of important things happened in 2011. no offense to gay rights; even if you remove 15 events from those, I will not remember 2011 as the year for gay rights. For me the number 1 thing is probably what happened in all the arab world.

That's fair comment, and you probably read my OP that personally it's too early to tell how the Arab Spring will play out. I think that will be this year.