Imperialistic Argentina once more extends its soiled talons

[saxitoxin]

How about China just lays claim to Hawaii. Are we all OK with that?

I imagine if a 35-member regional organization to which every nation in the Asia-Pacific region belonged unanimously endorsed such a move the U.S. - if it wanted to act maturely - would at least be expected to open a path for peaceful dialog on the question.

The hee-haw of the Britishers about the "political rights" of the squatters is silly since they refuse them the right to vote in UK parliamentary elections. It's a red herring. If there wasn't oil involved, they'd abandon them tomorrow.

Yes poor show by the Brits , the Chinese have it covered though , the good people of Hawaii will get to vote for the candidate chosen for them.

Let's try to keep this thread focused on the reality of the current situation, instead of a barackattak fantasy.

The liberation of Malvinas is about to happen. The squatters will be relocated to Northampton. By hook or by crook.

The Malvinas hearing is scheduled for the UN Decolonization Committee today. The chairman is Cuban Ambassador Mosquera. I wonder how the Britishers will fare there? LMAO.

[saxitoxin]

Courtesy http://www.un.org/en/decolonization, here is the current membership of the Decolonization Committee.

I've highlighted in Blue the nations who have already stated they recognize the historic and legal legitimacy of the Argentine claim on Malvinas and Red those that seem likely to vote against Britain. In green are those who I think are likely to vote against Argentina's request. Argentina just needs 1 vote to move the question to the Security Council. If the Decolonization Committee names Britain an unresponsive party to the dispute, she won't be able to use her veto. Then the question will be: will France forgive and forget how Cameron gave Sarkozy the middle-finger in Brussels last month to gallop to Britain's rescue?

Meanwhile, the only coverage of the impending liberation Britain gets is big pictures of the one or two destroyers the RN hasn't sent to the scrapyard printed on the front page of the Daily Mail with bombastic statements of boisterous aplomb.


Antigua & Barbuda
Bolivia
Chile
China
Congo
Côte D'Ivoire
Cuba
Dominica
Ecuador
Ethiopia
Fiji
Grenada
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Mali
Nicaragua
Papua New Guinea
Russian Federation
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Sierra Leone
Syrian Arab Republic
Timor-Leste
Tunisia
United Republic of Tanzania
Venezuela

[comic boy]

How about China just lays claim to Hawaii. Are we all OK with that?

I imagine if a 35-member regional organization to which every nation in the Asia-Pacific region belonged unanimously endorsed such a move the U.S. - if it wanted to act maturely - would at least be expected to open a path for peaceful dialog on the question.

The hee-haw of the Britishers about the "political rights" of the squatters is silly since they refuse them the right to vote in UK parliamentary elections. It's a red herring. If there wasn't oil involved, they'd abandon them tomorrow.

Yes poor show by the Brits , the Chinese have it covered though , the good people of Hawaii will get to vote for the candidate chosen for them.

Let's try to keep this thread focused on the reality of the current situation, instead of a barackattak fantasy.

The liberation of Malvinas is about to happen. The squatters will be relocated to Northampton. By hook or by crook.

The Malvinas hearing is scheduled for the UN Decolonization Committee today. The chairman is Cuban Ambassador Mosquera. I wonder how the Britishers will fare there? LMAO.

Northampton has been part of Poland for the last 2 years.

[Chariot of Fire]

I'd probably pay more attention to saxi's posts if they weren't laced with such invective towards the UK. Why the hate?

Britishers (?), squatters, 'Malvinas', scrapyards, 'liberation' (!) and the list could go on.....and on.

Simple fact is the islands are a self-governing British Overseas Territory, with the UK responsible for its defence and foreign affairs. Its inhabitants are British citizens who wish to retain the status quo. How can anyone condone a foreign power's intent to deprive the indigenous people that right?

[saxitoxin]

Simple fact is the islands are a self-governing British Overseas Territory,

According to the United Nations, they are a "non self-governing territory."

Loudly repeating "simple fact, end of discussion!" like UK has been doing hasn't been a tactic that's worked well in history when one doesn't have the means to actually enforce an end to the discussion.

With the world united in favor of Argentina, will Britain choose to be a nation of laws and civilization by recognizing the will of the community of nations expressed through their legitimate voice - the UN - or will it continue to operate as a pirate state?

[Haggis_McMutton]

With the world united in favor of Argentina, will Britain choose to be a nation of laws and civilization by recognizing the will of the community of nations expressed through their legitimate voice - the UN - or will it continue to operate as a pirate state?

Wait, now I'm confused.

I thought the UN was a hegemonic organization used by the US to give its many puppet nations some illusion of independence.
Don't try to bedazzle me saxi.

[comic boy]

I'd probably pay more attention to saxi's posts if they weren't laced with such invective towards the UK. Why the hate?

Britishers (?), squatters, 'Malvinas', scrapyards, 'liberation' (!) and the list could go on.....and on.

Simple fact is the islands are a self-governing British Overseas Territory, with the UK responsible for its defence and foreign affairs. Its inhabitants are British citizens who wish to retain the status quo. How can anyone condone a foreign power's intent to deprive the indigenous people that right?

Yeh its a shame , he used to be quite an amusing troll , now just a one trick pony

[saxitoxin]

This just in - President Fernández is more physically attractive than Queen Elizabeth (also, her grandchildren haven't been so inbred that they need to wear a toupée at 25 years old). The world belongs to the beautiful.

[AndyDufresne]

Simple fact is the islands are a self-governing British Overseas Territory,

According to the United Nations, they are a "non self-governing territory."

Loudly repeating "simple fact, end of discussion!" like UK has been doing hasn't been a tactic that's worked well in history when one doesn't have the means to actually enforce an end to the discussion.

With the world united in favor of Argentina, will Britain choose to be a nation of laws and civilization by recognizing the will of the community of nations expressed through their legitimate voice - the UN - or will it continue to operate as a pirate state?

Arghy, aye matey. Swab ye poop decks.




--Andy

[everywhere116]

How about China just lays claim to Hawaii. Are we all OK with that?

I imagine if a 35-member regional organization to which every nation in the Asia-Pacific region belonged unanimously endorsed such a move the U.S. - if it wanted to act maturely - would at least be expected to open a path for peaceful dialog on the question.

Be serious, now.

The hee-haw of the Britishers about the "political rights" of the squatters is silly since they refuse them the right to vote in UK parliamentary elections. It's a red herring.

Indeed, you are making one. Whether or not they can vote in a Parlimentary election is irrelevent if they want to remain British citizens. If they do want to vote in Parlimentary elections, that would be an internal affair within the British Commenwealth that in no way legitimizes the Argentine claim to the Falklands. That's like saying Australia gets Guam because they don't vote in US congressional or presidential elections.

If there wasn't oil involved, they'd abandon them tomorrow.

Again, irrelevant, and somewhat ironic because this could be the only reason Argentina would want the Falklands, too.

[HapSmo19]

None of this will matter when the clathrate gun goes off.

[saxitoxin]

Ultimately, these discussions of right vs. wrong and ethics and legal imperatives are moot. It's essentially a done-deal that the Malvinas will be reverting to Argentina control, the only thing to be resolved is if Britain will act like an adult and negotiate a peaceful transfer, or if they'll be a child and insist on a theatrical war first.

Argentina has the unanimous support of every OAS nation - including unprecedented Canadian and U.S. support - for their claim, as well as both the Russian Federation, the PRC and EU nations including Spain and Portugal. They're on the verge of receiving an UN resolution. Britain has no allies on this question and her closest friends - the EU - have been completely alienated by her refusal to contribute a single schilling to inter-European stability or to vote in favor of the Franco-German reform package. The Royal Navy has plummeted from a 79 ship surface force in 1982 to less than 20 ships today. She has gone from 4 aircraft carriers to 1 aircraft carrier that can only operate in the summer.

Pragmatism should prevail. Malvinas will be Argentine. That's not a serious debating question. We should focus our energy on the serious question - the method by which this occurs: peace or war. I support peace. I hope Cameron and his cabal come around to the peaceful side too instead of committing Britain to a last, flailing gasp of meaningless military convulsion so the old guard Tories can wrap themselves in the flag one last time.

Once this situation is resolved we can move on to the more pressing issues of Spanish claims to Gibraltar, Norwegian claims to the Orkney islands, French claims to Jersey and Dutch claims to the East Midlands, all of which I unequivocally support.

[saxitoxin]

Just started to get into this new song by the Argentine group Airbag, Otoño del 82. Very sentimental love story sang from the perspective of an Argentine soldier who has to leave his family and friends to defend his country against the horde of British invaders. It's available on iTunes, though Airbag was just on Live Rock performing it last month -

[everywhere116]

Just started to get into this new song by the Argentine group Airbag, Otoño del 82. Very sentimental love story sang from the perspective of an Argentine soldier who has to leave his family and friends to defend his country against the horde of British invaders. It's available on iTunes, though Airbag was just on Live Rock performing it last month -

That's weird because the UK never invaded Argentina.

[saxitoxin]

Just started to get into this new song by the Argentine group Airbag, Otoño del 82. Very sentimental love story sang from the perspective of an Argentine soldier who has to leave his family and friends to defend his country against the horde of British invaders. It's available on iTunes, though Airbag was just on Live Rock performing it last month -

That's weird because the UK never invaded Argentina.

The Britishers invaded the Malvinas department of the Province of Tierra del Fuego in 1833 and, again, in 1982.

[Ray Rider]

With the world united in favor of Argentina, will Britain choose to be a nation of laws and civilization by recognizing the will of the community of nations expressed through their legitimate voice - the UN - or will it continue to operate as a pirate state?

Wait, now I'm confused.

I thought the UN was a hegemonic organization used by the US to give its many puppet nations some illusion of independence.
Don't try to bedazzle me saxi.

lol

btw Everwhere 116, you're wasting your time trying to debate with Saxi whether or not Argentina has any right to the islands:

I don't really care if there's a legal basis or not for Argentine claims to the Malvinas...I'll support Argentina regardless of any basis in law or ethics for their claims.

[aad0906]

The thing is, the Falklands simply will not be Argentine. And there will only be war if Argentine chooses one, the UK doesn't have to attack anyone to maintain the status quo but Argentina would have to attack the Falklands if it wants to change the status quo. With regards to Spain supporting Argentina - of course they do, they tried to sell the Falklands to Argentina in the first place plus Spain wants to get Gibraltar. France on the other had supports the UK. As to the UN, the UN has clearly stated that the population of the Falkland Island have the right of self determination. An Argentine assault would be in violation of the existing UN resolution.

[Qwert]

its so funny when someone say that Argentina are Imerialistic countrie.
British have very long imperialistic bloddy history. Even today they hold many issland and dont want to bring back.
Just look on Chagos Archipelag, UK just kick Chagosian in 1970,expel everybody,and only because they are stronger military,and announce that these is Core of UK for centuries,and that in these archipelagos first british are born,and these archipelago need to belonge to UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depopulati ... ego_Garcia

Why dont we discuss rather more contemporary Imperialism , how about the concept of ' Greater Serbia ' and the resulting genocide throughout the Balkans.

Sure,we can disscus abouth concept of greater Albania, but in these discussion you will lost,because Serbian Goverment all cases abouth war crimes in Former yugoslavia done-and all who commite war crimes are in Hague.Unfortunatly War crimes from Croatia and Bosnian side are not prosecuted,and they also commited crimes, why ,i realy can not say. From other side US Soldier who commite War crimes against civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan are free(haditha masacre)(Bombarding Civilians in Afghanistan). In these world justice not exist,only stronger ditctate they justice, and everybody are guilty but not one single US soldier are found guilty for any war crime.

[saxitoxin]

the UK doesn't have to attack anyone to maintain the status quo but Argentina would have to attack the Falklands if it wants to change the status quo.

Malvinas will be Argentine by hook or by crook. My suspicion is it will be by crook, instead of the hook.

Currently Malvinas-flagged vessels are banned from docking in any South American port. With the demand of an UN resolution, the ban could easily be adopted by Spain (Malvinas is the world's third most export dependent economy and 82% of the exports go to Spain). The only air link to the islands (by LAN Chile) is on the verge of being terminated by a Chilean government order. (Don't imagine Spain won't comply with an UN resolution, Argentina can seek injunctive relief from the World Court to stop the lifeline of IMF payments to the Spanish if they flaunt a UN act; not that they will, Spain already supports Argentine claims.)

Economic sanctions could easily result in capitulation. Take that one step further ... a quarantine of Malvinas by the MERCOSUR navies would be end-game within 3 months without a shot being fired.

And, if the hook were necessary (unlikely) it would - once again - be over in a matter of hours. The only difference is that, this time, there is no Royal Navy to come to the rescue. Except for 19 aging ships, the entire fleet has been sent to scrap by Blair and Gordo to pay for treats and goodies they doled out for Scottish votes in form of various social welfare schemes over the last 15 years. (BTW fat lot of good that ended up doing! LMAO.)

Britain is a shadow of 1982. It can't defend downtown Birmingham from being captured by 15 year old yobs. It has no hope in the South Atlantic. All is over.

[saxitoxin]

btw Everwhere 116, you're wasting your time trying to debate with Saxi whether or not Argentina has any right to the islands:

I don't really care if there's a legal basis or not for Argentine claims to the Malvinas...I'll support Argentina regardless of any basis in law or ethics for their claims.

I stand by my apathy.

[everywhere116]

Just started to get into this new song by the Argentine group Airbag, Otoño del 82. Very sentimental love story sang from the perspective of an Argentine soldier who has to leave his family and friends to defend his country against the horde of British invaders. It's available on iTunes, though Airbag was just on Live Rock performing it last month -

That's weird because the UK never invaded Argentina.

The Britishers invaded the Malvinas department of the Province of Tierra del Fuego in 1833 and, again, in 1982.

I'm looking up the Falkland War, and I'm not seeing anything about Britain conducting operations on mainland Argentina during the Falkland War. Are you sure you aren't mistaken?

btw Everwhere 116, you're wasting your time trying to debate with Saxi whether or not Argentina has any right to the islands:

Because he is right, because he is a more skillful debater than I, or because he is stubborn?

[saxitoxin]

Six facts about the Malvinas War they don't teach in British school corporate textbooks:

(1) Britain barely scratched out a victory; if the massive casualties from one UK war crime (sinking of the cruiser Belgrano) are subtracted, more UK colonial forces were KIA than Argentine.

(2) Elite Argentine paratroopers were outnumbered 2-1 by slothful British Marines when they liberated Stanley Government House from the UK.

(3) Just before end of the conflict the UK agreed to the OAS peace proposal whereby an Adjudication Board composed of Brazil, Peru, West Germany and USA would decide the fate of the Malvinas ("self-determination of islanders" be damned) ... Argentina unexpectedly withdrew from conflict before the Foreign Office could announce their agreement to the proposal making it moot.

(4) Thatcher has said in her memoirs that, if the Yankees hadn't offered Ascension Island as a replenishment location (which Reagan did reluctantly) they would never have been able to mount an operation. (No Ascension Island this time, given Obama's recent statements regarding Malvinas ... )

(5) Even as British troops were advancing on Stanley in their final push, Reagan telephoned Thatcher demanding she pull back and stop all attacks on Argentine positions.

(6) The bulk of the Argentine air force never went into action as they were tied down defending eastern Argentina. The brutal Augusto Pinochet in Chile was Britain's #1 friend and had announced a total mobilization at the start of the conflict and moved the entire Chilean army to the border. This was a key strategic coup arranged by the Foreign Office before the Britisher task force departed England for the Malvinas. If not for war criminal Augusto Pinochet's support for UK, the Argentine Air Force would have made mincemeat of the British naval force.

These are all very important to keep in mind when juxtaposing 1982's 79-ship Royal Navy and 2012's 19-ship royal navy. UK of 1982 with many friends and UK of 2012 with no friends. Pan-American disunity of 1982 and Pan-American unity of 2012.

That highlighted in red is especially important when evaluating British nonsense about the "self determination" of the sheep farmers.

[Chariot of Fire]

All your words and deliberate antagonism serve to do saxi is dishonour the islanders who fought in two worlds wars and those who, today, wish for nothing more than to live by their own constitution with the right to self-determination. An ideal that I thought in modern times would be upheld by anybody for whom liberty meant something.

Research all you like about the political history of the Falklands, and post as many propaganda songs as you care to. They say a picture is worth a thousand words; well here's one historical truth that's far more poignant than any of the inflammatory material you can muster:



As for your statistics regarding casualties during the conflict; all this has served to do is highlight your ignorance in respect of an assault on an enemy entrenched. This aside, what exactly was your point? To sully the memory of 'slothful' Royal Marines who won the battle? Congratulations. I see you are perhaps someone with very little respect (other than for your own much-vaunted opinion).

[saxitoxin]

All your words and deliberate antagonism serve to do saxi is dishonour the islanders who fought in two worlds wars and those who, today, wish for nothing more than to live by their own constitution with the right to self-determination. An ideal that I thought in modern times would be upheld by anybody for whom liberty meant something.

Research all you like about the political history of the Falklands, and post as many propaganda songs as you care to. They say a picture is worth a thousand words; well here's one historical truth that's far more poignant than any of the inflammatory material you can muster:



As for your statistics regarding casualties during the conflict; all this has served to do is highlight your ignorance in respect of an assault on an enemy entrenched. This aside, what exactly was your point? To sully the memory of 'slothful' Royal Marines who won the battle? Congratulations. I see you are perhaps someone with very little respect (other than for your own much-vaunted opinion).

[Chariot of Fire]

Hardly a comparison is it. One honours the dead of two world wars, who gave up their lives fighting for the Allied cause. The other commemorates the dead of a hostile invasion force which deprived the indigenous people of their freedom.

Nice try. 0/10