US soldier kill 16 civilians in Afghanistan

by **Qwert** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:56 am

What to say,american justice are great-you have all evidence,but still people can be free, i just love american democraty, they give so huge opportunity. You can do everything, you can kill every person who are not american,and still can be a hero.
=D>

by **Neoteny** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:07 pm

Bald_eagle.jpg

by **KoolBak** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:10 pm

Hell yeah! :roll:

by **Woodruff** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:16 pm

qwert wrote:What to say,american justice are great-you have all evidence,but still people can be free, i just love american democraty, they give so huge opportunity. You can do everything, you can kill every person who are not american,and still can be a hero.

Qwert, got a link?

by **PLAYER57832** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:31 pm

qwert wrote:What to say,american justice are great-you have all evidence,but still people can be free, i just love american democraty, they give so huge opportunity. You can do everything, you can kill every person who are not american,and still can be a hero.

Heard a lot on this. The real blame for the lack of prosecution goes to the US prosecutors. They apparently put up a pretty poor case. One might see intention there, if one is suspicious, I suppose.

That said, a lot of pretty nasty stuff does happen in war. Its a big reason why war is to be avoided. I always hestitate to sit here in my comfortable chair and judge those in combat zones.. though I do believe they should be judged, I just am uncomfortable doing that. Things that seem pretty simple to use here get complex when you face gunshots and bombs every single day.

by **PLAYER57832** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:42 pm

Woodruff wrote:
qwert wrote:What to say,american justice are great-you have all evidence,but still people can be free, i just love american democraty, they give so huge opportunity. You can do everything, you can kill every person who are not american,and still can be a hero.

Qwert, got a link?

Not Qwert, (not Al jazeer) but I do have a couple links here:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... -jail-time

http://www.npr.org/2012/01/25/145824886 ... f-u-s-raid

There was also a decent analysis last night.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =145685855

http://www.npr.org/2012/01/23/145656656 ... -plea-deal

by **Lootifer** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:50 pm

what the f*ck? ok couple of civvies in amongst a bunch of bad dudes I can handle, but 24 dead civilians with 10 of them being woman and children? too far for my little stomach to handle america.

by **TheGeneral2112** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:54 pm

Dead peeps don't shoot back. Plus, women and children can be terrorists too.

by **Lootifer** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:55 pm

how many terrorists did they find in the raid?

by **BigBallinStalin** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:01 pm

All the dead ones.

by **TheGeneral2112** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:29 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:All the dead ones.

This

by **Woodruff** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:38 pm

TheGeneral2112 wrote:Dead peeps don't shoot back. Plus, women and children can be terrorists too.

Both compelling reasons, of course...and accurate. That is a large part of the problem in this situation...and why the way to fix the problem long-term is not through war (though short-term is must be to a degree), but rather through education, infrastructure and standard of living. Make them so god-damned comfortable that they're not so motivated to kill themselves.

by **oVo** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:03 pm

The raid took place on Nov. 19, 2005, at a time when Sunni insurgents and al-Qaida militants roamed Haditha's streets, terrorizing the population and battling U.S. forces.

► Three months earlier in the same town, six Marines were massacred and their bodies mutilated when insurgents overran their observation post. Two days later, 14 Marines and an interpreter were killed when their vehicle hit a land mine.

The allegations against the Marines were first brought forward in March 2006 when Time magazine reported that it obtained a video of the attack's aftermath, taken by a Haditha journalism student inside the houses and local morgue.

The footage showed a blood-smeared bedroom floor. Bits of what appeared to be human flesh and bullet holes could be clearly seen on the walls. Other scenes showed bodies of women and children in plastic bags on the floor of what appeared to be a morgue.

A week before images were broadcast, the U.S. military in Iraq said it was investigating potential misconduct by the troops. A military statement issued just days after the Haditha raid had described the incident as an ambush on a joint U.S.-Iraqi patrol in the town that left 15 civilians, eight insurgents and a U.S. Marine dead in the bombing and a subsequent firefight.

The town's residents claimed at the time that the only shooting done after the bombing was by U.S. forces.

by **BigBallinStalin** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:06 pm

TheGeneral2112 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:All the dead ones.

This

Indiscriminate killing isn't a good way to justify the goals of one's actions.

by **Lootifer** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:17 pm

15 civs, 8 baddies. Slightly easier to stomach I guess - more than enough grey area/fog to ever know what actually went down. The marine could be an arab hating asshat who deserves to go away for life, or he could be unlucky and was genuinely acting in the way he thought was best for both his unit and the local civilians... We will never know.

by **BigBallinStalin** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:20 pm

Arab hat-ing ass hat.

by **Juan_Bottom** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:31 pm

Those of you who follow this stuff more closely may have heard one of the dozens of news pieces concerning soldiers indiscriminately killing Iraqi Civilians. Even if you get caught hey say all the time that there is no punishment or anything if you say that you thought that your life was in danger. The victim could be a 12 year-old female carrying groceries 200 yards away.

by **Qwert** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:42 pm

TheGeneral2112 wrote:Dead peeps don't shoot back. Plus, women and children can be terrorists too.

I have trust that someone will try to present these like "US try to defend self against armed women and children" thank you,again US justice win, and another inocent American soldier are free =D>

by **Symmetry** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:07 pm

Double taps are an integral part of the El Presidente combat pistol shooting drill developed by Jeff Cooper in the 1970s and published in the January/February 1979 issue of American Handgunner. Also developed in the 1970s is the Failure Drill or Mozambique Drill, developed by Jeff Cooper student Mike Rousseau. This drill is to practice a situation where a double-tap to the torso fails to stop an attacker and so there's a third shot to the head.

What did you think "hearts and minds" meant?

by **Lootifer** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:48 pm

Id lol but its not a funny situation :/

by **Symmetry** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:55 pm

Lootifer wrote:Id lol but its not a funny situation :/

Fair point. It's my gallows humour getting the best of me. Apologies.

by **PLAYER57832** on Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:07 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:Those of you who follow this stuff more closely may have heard one of the dozens of news pieces concerning soldiers indiscriminately killing Iraqi Civilians. Even if you get caught hey say all the time that there is no punishment or anything if you say that you thought that your life was in danger. The victim could be a 12 year-old female carrying groceries 200 yards away.

In this case, it also appears that the prosecutors dropped the ball, by not getting enough evidence.

War is hell, no matter how you slice it.. for ALL involved.

by **BigBallinStalin** on Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:09 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:Those of you who follow this stuff more closely may have heard one of the dozens of news pieces concerning soldiers indiscriminately killing Iraqi Civilians. Even if you get caught hey say all the time that there is no punishment or anything if you say that you thought that your life was in danger. The victim could be a 12 year-old female carrying groceries 200 yards away.

This made me think:

how can people expect particular government organizations to behave responsibility if the consequences of their actions are incapable of being effectively punished?

It's similar to letting a business to dump nuclear waste in a river and not be held liable for it.

by **Juan_Bottom** on Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:49 pm

Or allowing a business to dump nuclear waste off of the coast of a poor African country?

What more is there to say? This stuff happens every day in countries all over the place. Nobody cares until it directly affects them. Millions continue to starve to death in Africa while the US cannot meet it's treaty obligations with it's own Native Americans, and yet the US sent it's wealth to Japan to help them recover from the earthquake. I see that there is something deeply hypocritical about even our most sincere attempts at helping other people.

by **Johnny Rockets** on Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:28 am

The reason why there are Somali pirates in the first place is because of all the illegal dumping of toxic and radioactive waste by foreign corporations in once bountiful fishing grounds of the coast of that country. Organized crime lords recruit and arm desperate ex-fishermen who have lost their livelihood and send them out to loot while they sit back on the shore exposing themselves to little or no risk.

JRock