Conquer Club

I can't help but notice the absence of threads about the ACTA treaty on this forum. This needs to be remedied.

As many of you know, the SOPA legislature failed due to public action, but the evil corporations are not happy to leave things be - they're now trying to pass a trade agreement that would achieve pretty much the same thing SOPA would have, only on a global scale.

The scary thing is, this ACTA thing bypasses all democratic processes. It's totally crafted and agreed to behind closed doors, and it's obvious that the money & power of the American entertainment industry is behind this agreement.

Anti-ACTA protests are being held today all over Europe.

Here's some links for more information:

Why ACTA is a problem

For you Americans, you might find it interesting that Obama's signing of ACTA may have been unconstitutional.

Secrecy and backhanded deals in the crafting of ACTA


What can you do? I don't know... try spreading the word, writing to your representatives in your respective governments, participating to protests etc.

Another good link that explains why ACTA sucks

http://falkvinge.net/2012/02/08/planned ... documents/

ACTA is a dangerous thing: it may reduce developing countries' access to medicine, thus costing actual human lives. All just to make a few extra bucks for the multinational corporations.

http://www.msfaccess.org/content/secret ... -medicines

The problem is, we don't have any real say in this.

As I noted before, we are quickly entering an age when countries are basically irrelevant. Corporations will hold ALL the power and be able to tell countries what to do. They already can to a large extent.

Its funny.. we overthrew kings becuase they too often used power to assert their will contrary to the needs and wants of the people. Now, it all become about money..and suddenly its OK to bully someone if you are the one paying the bills.

At least kings had God to answer to...

Wouldn't SOPA and PIPA be the government's attempt to carry out the ACTA agreement by passing a law?

Night Strike wrote:Wouldn't SOPA and PIPA be the government's attempt to carry out the ACTA agreement by passing a law?

No, SOPA/PIPA is not the same as ACTA. ACTA can f*ck things up independently of SOPA/PIPA. ACTA is a trade agreement created outside all democratic processes, paid for by big corporation lobbyist money. It's corruption, through and through.

The "justifications" used to try to pass this agreement are pretty much the same as SOPA/PIPA though. The effects are even worse.

I think everyone should start boycotting hollywood movies and big industry music. Don't buy anything produced by hollywood or the big music industry. That'd show them that people are not willing to take their bullshit forever and force them to look for more feasible and humane business practices.

natty dread wrote:
I think everyone should start boycotting hollywood movies and big industry music. Don't buy anything produced by hollywood or the big music industry. That'd show them that people are not willing to take their bullshit forever and force them to look for more feasible and humane business practices.

As much as I might sympathize, it will just never happen. Also, such a move would wind up hurting a lot more people than it would help. (the movie industry is a very significant economic and political force in this country..and not always a negative one, either)
I don't really know what the solution IS, though. I am very afraid our chances have gone by the wayside already.

PLAYER57832 wrote:As much as I might sympathize, it will just never happen.

Well, of course everyone's not goinf to do it. But if enough people do it that it creates a big enough dent in their profits, it'd probably make them pay attention.

PLAYER57832 wrote: Also, such a move would wind up hurting a lot more people than it would help.

Maybe those people should just find other jobs... I'd rather have those people go unemployed than lose the freedom of speech for everyone.

PLAYER57832 wrote:I don't really know what the solution IS, though. I am very afraid our chances have gone by the wayside already.

That attitude is not going to help fix things. If you admit defeat before even fighting, then you've already lost.

I wonder where are the people on this forum who always go on about the virtues of the free market economy are... Shouldn't you guys be on the frontline opposition against ACTA?

this is just more evidence that inter-governmental organizations suck

germany decided to delay their signing of acta the day before the scheduled protests, probably in an effort to reduce the protests and therefore reduce popular anger

they are going to keep trying to pull this bullshit and it will eventually pass when people lose vigilance

by the way, acta has been around for a while now. medefe had a "stop acta" avatar about two years ago

john9blue wrote:by the way, acta has been around for a while now.

I'm aware. But now there's a chance to do something about it, when there's larger awareness about it.

john9blue wrote:they are going to keep trying to pull this bullshit and it will eventually pass when people lose vigilance

So your suggestion is to just do nothing?

natty dread wrote:I wonder where are the people on this forum who always go on about the virtues of the free market economy are... Shouldn't you guys be on the frontline opposition against ACTA?

Don't expect Night Strike or Phatscotty...their religiousity and corporatocracy puts them on ACTA's side, I suspect.

natty dread wrote:So your suggestion is to just do nothing?

i... what?

WTF?!

i genuinely don't understand what goes on during this process



you honestly need to seek help if this shit has been happening your entire life.

john9blue wrote:

natty dread wrote:So your suggestion is to just do nothing?

i... what?
WTF?!
you honestly need to seek help if this shit has been happening your entire life.

That does seem to be what you were suggesting with "they'll just keep trying until people don't notice anymore and then they'll win" without any suggestion for avoiding it.

Woodruff wrote:That does seem to be what you were suggesting with "they'll just keep trying until people don't notice anymore and then they'll win" without any suggestion for avoiding it.

i'm being a realist. that's what i believe will happen.

that doesn't mean that i "won't do anything about it"; that's just natty's tendency to assume the worst/dumbest in people

john9blue wrote:

Woodruff wrote:That does seem to be what you were suggesting with "they'll just keep trying until people don't notice anymore and then they'll win" without any suggestion for avoiding it.

i'm being a realist. that's what i believe will happen.
that doesn't mean that i "won't do anything about it"; that's just natty's tendency to assume the worst/dumbest in people

It was what you APPEARED to be suggesting though, which is why natty used the term "suggestion" in his question.

Woodruff wrote:

natty dread wrote:I wonder where are the people on this forum who always go on about the virtues of the free market economy are... Shouldn't you guys be on the frontline opposition against ACTA?

Don't expect Night Strike or Phatscotty...their religiousity and corporatocracy puts them on ACTA's side, I suspect.

Sheesh.


I just don't see where this is an American problem at this time. We already know Europe doesn't care about individual freedoms, and that is where this seems to actually be relevant. We already have SOPA and PIPA to deal with that I believe were attempts to implement this treaty, yet they have currently been stopped. Unless the Senate actually moves to approve this agreement, then it can't have the force of law in the US.

i doubt that someone who spends a great deal of time posting on an internet forum would support a law that would put extreme restrictions on internet forum posts

Night Strike wrote: We already know Europe doesn't care about individual freedoms

Oh really, Night Strike

It's all because of AMERICAN corporations and their lobbying money and corruption that this agreement is even being pushed. The same people who were behind SOPA are trying to push ACTA because they failed with SOPA. The majority of Europe wants nothing to do with this, it's a few corrupt individuals who are in cahoots with AMERICAN corporations that are trying to blindside the rest of Europe with totalitarian laws.

Besides, if you think ACTA wouldn't have any effect on USA, you're deluding yourself. With an international agreement behind them, it will be much easier for the assholes in USA to push for legislation in the USA as well.

Night Strike wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

natty dread wrote:I wonder where are the people on this forum who always go on about the virtues of the free market economy are... Shouldn't you guys be on the frontline opposition against ACTA?

Don't expect Night Strike or Phatscotty...their religiousity and corporatocracy puts them on ACTA's side, I suspect.

Sheesh.
I just don't see where this is an American problem at this time. We already know Europe doesn't care about individual freedoms, and that is where this seems to actually be relevant. We already have SOPA and PIPA to deal with that I believe were attempts to implement this treaty, yet they have currently been stopped. Unless the Senate actually moves to approve this agreement, then it can't have the force of law in the US.

You claim that Europe doesn't care about individual freedoms. How is it that you believe that the United States does, by comparison? How is the United States any better than Europe regarding individual freedoms? I can state that the United States is WORSE in some cases.

john9blue wrote:i doubt that someone who spends a great deal of time posting on an internet forum would support a law that would put extreme restrictions on internet forum posts

You can doubt it all you'd like, but you would be wrong. Would you believe that a female United States Senator from Kansas would prefer that the 19th Amendment didn't exist? People don't always support their own interests, ESPECIALLY when religion is involved: http://israeliteidentity.com/kayoconnor.htm

natty dread wrote:I wonder where are the people on this forum who always go on about the virtues of the free market economy are... Shouldn't you guys be on the frontline opposition against ACTA?

My opportunity costs were too high, but since you asked so nicely, here goes a short version:

ACTA sucks, insert "rent-seeking," "vested interests," "failure of representative bodies to rule in favor of future innovation and benefits for the constituents, "arbitrary laws," "in favor of cyber duplication of creative content," "collective decision-making incurs low direct costs to the governing body, therefore knowledge and incentive problems," etc., etc., etc.

natty dread wrote:

Night Strike wrote: We already know Europe doesn't care about individual freedoms

Oh really, Night Strike

It's all because of AMERICAN corporations and their lobbying money and corruption that this agreement is even being pushed. The same people who were behind SOPA are trying to push ACTA because they failed with SOPA. The majority of Europe wants nothing to do with this, it's a few corrupt individuals who are in cahoots with AMERICAN corporations that are trying to blindside the rest of Europe with totalitarian laws.

Besides, if you think ACTA wouldn't have any effect on USA, you're deluding yourself. With an international agreement behind them, it will be much easier for the assholes in USA to push for legislation in the USA as well.

European companies would/are doing the same/are engaging in similar means of rent-seeking in order to implement favorable public policy which benefits a certain group at the dispersed cost to generally all citizens.

In other words, if American companies (which allegedly are the only nationality responsible for ACTA) were not pushing for ACTA, then European companies who have similar interests would be doing the same.

BigBallinStalin wrote:then European companies who have similar interests would be doing the same.

Would they? I'm not so sure. The movie/music industry in Europe is in much smaller scale than the one in America. There's not so much to be gained for most European companies to implement draconian intellectual property laws or copyrights that get extended every time disney characters might go to public domain... In other words, I'm not so sure that European companies would have sufficient incentive to seek such legislation if American companies didn't already seek to do it.

In either case, I was mainly just responding to Night Strike's absurd claim that "Europe doesn't care about individual rights".

natty dread wrote:I wonder where are the people on this forum who always go on about the virtues of the free market economy are... Shouldn't you guys be on the frontline opposition against ACTA?

Im a free freemarketeer! But im "heart" and unfortunately have the lamest super power.

BBS is wind though, he might be able to help.