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Remembering a war reporter

Postby Symmetry on Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:41 pm

I really don't know if any of you followed any of her reports over the years, but Marie Colvin was killed in Syria a few days ago.

NYTimes

Worth a look if you get the chance.
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:18 pm

Also remember, Colvin was killed in an artillery barrage that had been called by the Syrian Army after triangulating sat phone signals.

She entered Syria illegally without crossing Syrian customs or immigration, which is a crime punishable by long prison sentences in Europe and North America. She was in a building in Homs when she started making phone calls on a satellite phone. Satellite phones are extremely expensive and their use is almost unheard of among civilians in any country with developed communications infrastructure. They are a staple among military, paramilitary and terrorist forces and the Syrian army has been - logically - using sat-phone signals to direct artillery strikes against the heavily armed insurgency.

She was not targeted by the Syrian Army and the Syrian Army didn't even know they were shelling a building containing journalists when she was killed.
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby Symmetry on Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:03 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Also remember, Colvin was killed in an artillery barrage that had been called by the Syrian Army after triangulating sat phone signals.

She entered Syria illegally without crossing Syrian customs or immigration, which is a crime punishable by long prison sentences in Europe and North America. She was in a building in Homs when she started making phone calls on a satellite phone. Satellite phones are extremely expensive and their use is almost unheard of among civilians in any country with developed communications infrastructure. They are a staple among military, paramilitary and terrorist forces and the Syrian army has been - logically - using sat-phone signals to direct artillery strikes against the heavily armed insurgency.

She was not targeted by the Syrian Army and the Syrian Army didn't even know they were shelling a building containing journalists when she was killed.


Your faith in the Assad regime is remarkable. Maybe take a time out from trolling on this one though, eh?
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:11 pm

Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Also remember, Colvin was killed in an artillery barrage that had been called by the Syrian Army after triangulating sat phone signals.

She entered Syria illegally without crossing Syrian customs or immigration, which is a crime punishable by long prison sentences in Europe and North America. She was in a building in Homs when she started making phone calls on a satellite phone. Satellite phones are extremely expensive and their use is almost unheard of among civilians in any country with developed communications infrastructure. They are a staple among military, paramilitary and terrorist forces and the Syrian army has been - logically - using sat-phone signals to direct artillery strikes against the heavily armed insurgency.

She was not targeted by the Syrian Army and the Syrian Army didn't even know they were shelling a building containing journalists when she was killed.


Your faith in the Assad regime is remarkable. Maybe take a time out from trolling on this one though, eh?


Is there anything I said that is factually inaccurate?
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:17 pm

In a rare moment of independence, ABC's Jake Tapper grills an Obama regime flunkie over the hilarious hypocrisy of the regime sobbing and lionizing "war reporters" while acting like a tin-pot dictatorship when it comes to reporting on the regime:



I'll bet Tapper will be out of work, writing real estate listings at the El Paso Times by next week.
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby Symmetry on Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:19 pm

Really not going to go into this one with you, apologies, I'll owe you an indignant reply for another day.
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby everywhere116 on Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:22 pm

Wait, does Syria have a developed communications infrastructure?
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:25 pm

Symmetry wrote:Really not going to go into this one with you


I don't really expect you to go into it; there's no way you can deny that I said anything that hasn't been documented as factual. You had a choice between agreement or silence and I anticipated you'd choose the latter. So, no big shocker.
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby Symmetry on Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:29 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Really not going to go into this one with you


I don't really expect you to go into it; there's no way you can deny that I said anything that hasn't been documented as factual. You had a choice between agreement or silence and I anticipated you'd choose the latter. So, no big shocker.


Saxi, really? Those are my only options if I want to make a thread about Marie Colvin?
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:33 pm

saxitoxin wrote:In a rare moment of independence, ABC's Jake Tapper grills an Obama regime flunkie over the hilarious hypocrisy of the regime sobbing and lionizing "war reporters" while acting like a tin-pot dictatorship when it comes to reporting on the regime:



I'll bet Tapper will be out of work, writing real estate listings at the El Paso Times by next week.


BTW, look at the woman from NPR (National Petroleum Radio) rolling her eyes and making faces when Tapper is asking his question. You can just hear her thinking "HOW DARE HE! How dare he criticize the regime for jailing whistleblowers under the Espionage Act! He is criticizing THE REGIME! I hope our brave SS agents shoot him for treason and disloyalty."
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby Symmetry on Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:38 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:In a rare moment of independence, ABC's Jake Tapper grills an Obama regime flunkie over the hilarious hypocrisy of the regime sobbing and lionizing "war reporters" while acting like a tin-pot dictatorship when it comes to reporting on the regime:



I'll bet Tapper will be out of work, writing real estate listings at the El Paso Times by next week.


BTW, look at the woman from NPR (National Petroleum Radio) rolling her eyes and making faces when Tapper is asking his question. You can just hear her thinking "HOW DARE HE! How dare he criticize the regime for jailing whistleblowers under the Espionage Act! He is criticizing THE REGIME! I hope our brave SS agents shoot him for treason and disloyalty."


Quoting yourself as a source? Give the lady a bit of respect and go easy on the narcissism. Maybe? Just once? Out of a vestige of respect?
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby everywhere116 on Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:43 pm

Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:In a rare moment of independence, ABC's Jake Tapper grills an Obama regime flunkie over the hilarious hypocrisy of the regime sobbing and lionizing "war reporters" while acting like a tin-pot dictatorship when it comes to reporting on the regime:



I'll bet Tapper will be out of work, writing real estate listings at the El Paso Times by next week.


BTW, look at the woman from NPR (National Petroleum Radio) rolling her eyes and making faces when Tapper is asking his question. You can just hear her thinking "HOW DARE HE! How dare he criticize the regime for jailing whistleblowers under the Espionage Act! He is criticizing THE REGIME! I hope our brave SS agents shoot him for treason and disloyalty."


Quoting yourself as a source? Give the lady a bit of respect and go easy on the narcissism. Maybe? Just once? Out of a vestige of respect?
Looked to me like she was saying "What? What are you talking about? When has that ever happened?"
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:49 pm

everywhere116 wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:In a rare moment of independence, ABC's Jake Tapper grills an Obama regime flunkie over the hilarious hypocrisy of the regime sobbing and lionizing "war reporters" while acting like a tin-pot dictatorship when it comes to reporting on the regime:



I'll bet Tapper will be out of work, writing real estate listings at the El Paso Times by next week.


BTW, look at the woman from NPR (National Petroleum Radio) rolling her eyes and making faces when Tapper is asking his question. You can just hear her thinking "HOW DARE HE! How dare he criticize the regime for jailing whistleblowers under the Espionage Act! He is criticizing THE REGIME! I hope our brave SS agents shoot him for treason and disloyalty."


Quoting yourself as a source? Give the lady a bit of respect and go easy on the narcissism. Maybe? Just once? Out of a vestige of respect?
Looked to me like she was saying "What? What are you talking about? When has that ever happened?"


Good point, National Petroleum Radio (NPR) reporters reflect the intelligence of most Staters and generally aren't up on basic facts, like the fact that in 3 years six whistleblowers have been rounded up and jailed by Obama regime state security officials under the Espionage Act for talking to reporters (when in the preceding 100 years this had only happened 3 times):

http://blackagendareport.com/content/ob ... tleblowers
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:51 pm

Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:In a rare moment of independence, ABC's Jake Tapper grills an Obama regime flunkie over the hilarious hypocrisy of the regime sobbing and lionizing "war reporters" while acting like a tin-pot dictatorship when it comes to reporting on the regime:



I'll bet Tapper will be out of work, writing real estate listings at the El Paso Times by next week.


BTW, look at the woman from NPR (National Petroleum Radio) rolling her eyes and making faces when Tapper is asking his question. You can just hear her thinking "HOW DARE HE! How dare he criticize the regime for jailing whistleblowers under the Espionage Act! He is criticizing THE REGIME! I hope our brave SS agents shoot him for treason and disloyalty."


Quoting yourself as a source? Give the lady a bit of respect and go easy on the narcissism. Maybe? Just once? Out of a vestige of respect?


Respect for oil industry PR flacks? I'll let you carry that banner.
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby Symmetry on Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:03 pm

Thanks, I guess.
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:06 am

I guess I'll remember not to carry my satellite phone next time I'm reporting from the front lines of a civil war.
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby heavycola on Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:24 am

saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Also remember, Colvin was killed in an artillery barrage that had been called by the Syrian Army after triangulating sat phone signals.

She entered Syria illegally without crossing Syrian customs or immigration, which is a crime punishable by long prison sentences in Europe and North America. She was in a building in Homs when she started making phone calls on a satellite phone. Satellite phones are extremely expensive and their use is almost unheard of among civilians in any country with developed communications infrastructure. They are a staple among military, paramilitary and terrorist forces and the Syrian army has been - logically - using sat-phone signals to direct artillery strikes against the heavily armed insurgency.

She was not targeted by the Syrian Army and the Syrian Army didn't even know they were shelling a building containing journalists when she was killed.


Your faith in the Assad regime is remarkable. Maybe take a time out from trolling on this one though, eh?


Is there anything I said that is factually inaccurate?


'She was not targeted by the Syrian Army and the Syrian Army didn't even know they were shelling a building containing journalists when she was killed.'

That is speculative, not factual. There have been reports to the contrary: a french journalist who was with Colvin in Homs told the UK Daily Telegraph that they had been warned journalists in the city were being targeted. Satellite phones are expensive, but they are also a staple for correspondents filing copy from warzones. Of course, she could have been killed by a wayward shell, or maybe the Syrian Army thought they were targeting insurgents. The only people who know for sure are the SA commanders on the ground, presumably. Which is why we should be grateful that reporters like her are doing what they have to in order to report from the inside.
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:30 am

I think the bottom line point here is that we have lost several great sources of information in the past 2 weeks. We are all the less for these reporter's deaths.
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby patches70 on Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:33 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:I guess I'll remember not to carry my satellite phone next time I'm reporting from the front lines of a civil war.


That...would be a good idea.
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby the carpet man on Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:42 am

why do these people poke their nose into syria anyway? i thought syria did not allow the media to enter.

an the hole will be soon filled. there are hundreds more westerns desperate to enter syria so they can write their lies from 'on the scene' instead of just sitting in their office scrolling through angry internet blogs for quote. it sounds like she was a good journalist, so it is sad that in her end she was stooping in the role of 'western government propaganda puppet'. but this is life.
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby saxitoxin on Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:13 pm

heavycola wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Also remember, Colvin was killed in an artillery barrage that had been called by the Syrian Army after triangulating sat phone signals.

She entered Syria illegally without crossing Syrian customs or immigration, which is a crime punishable by long prison sentences in Europe and North America. She was in a building in Homs when she started making phone calls on a satellite phone. Satellite phones are extremely expensive and their use is almost unheard of among civilians in any country with developed communications infrastructure. They are a staple among military, paramilitary and terrorist forces and the Syrian army has been - logically - using sat-phone signals to direct artillery strikes against the heavily armed insurgency.

She was not targeted by the Syrian Army and the Syrian Army didn't even know they were shelling a building containing journalists when she was killed.


Your faith in the Assad regime is remarkable. Maybe take a time out from trolling on this one though, eh?


Is there anything I said that is factually inaccurate?


'She was not targeted by the Syrian Army and the Syrian Army didn't even know they were shelling a building containing journalists when she was killed.'

That is speculative, not factual. There have been reports to the contrary: a french journalist who was with Colvin in Homs told the UK Daily Telegraph that they had been warned journalists in the city were being targeted. Satellite phones are expensive, but they are also a staple for correspondents filing copy from warzones. Of course, she could have been killed by a wayward shell, or maybe the Syrian Army thought they we
re targeting insurgents. The only people who know for sure are the SA commanders on the ground, presumably. Which is why we should be grateful that reporters like her are doing what they have to in order to report from the inside.


She snuck into Syria without clearing customs or immigration. Therefore, the burden of proof is the west's to show the Syrian Army even knew she was in country. Had she announced her presence, filed an arrival slip, etc., as western nations themselves demand from journalists entering their countries, it would be a different story.

I appreciate she took what she felt was a necessary risk but it's unnecessary to turn her death into a Tom Clancy adventure novel. No one has disputed that she was killed by a howitzer shell fired from kilometers away by troops who never saw her face, didn't know her name,or her profession, but were simply triangulating on the same type of signal being used by the suicide bombers who are massacring women and children in their country by the graveful (see: Aleppo).

When western armies do this they have a get out of jail free card - they just wave their hands in the air, yell "collateral damage!", convene a board of inquiry and then cruxify some underpaid corporal or private. Then the matter is forgotten. Syria doesn't have any of those cards, sad for them.
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:46 pm

The hypocrisy/incostency is interesting to note, and very few in the West are able to cope with that, or even see it.
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby GabonX on Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:03 pm

All of you bleeding hearts spouting from your Ivory Towers about the tyranny of the rebels or the Assad regime need to wake up. This is the Middle East that we're talking about, a place where you have to win or you die. Has Assad massacred civilians? Yup... But if he hadn't and if he doesn't continue they're gonna slit his throat along with his kids, his British wife who will probably be brutalized *ahem* first, and the rest of the Alawi minority.

I don't like Assad, and I'll be pleased to see him fall as it's going to damage the Iranian grip on the region, but at least I can see that his tyranny is a matter of survival.
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby nagerous on Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:06 pm

Symmetry wrote:I really don't know if any of you followed any of her reports over the years, but Marie Colvin was killed in Syria a few days ago.

NYTimes

Worth a look if you get the chance.


Also, RIP award winning French photographer Remi Ochlik who was killed in the same incident.
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Re: Remembering a war reporter

Postby heavycola on Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:29 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
heavycola wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Also remember, Colvin was killed in an artillery barrage that had been called by the Syrian Army after triangulating sat phone signals.

She entered Syria illegally without crossing Syrian customs or immigration, which is a crime punishable by long prison sentences in Europe and North America. She was in a building in Homs when she started making phone calls on a satellite phone. Satellite phones are extremely expensive and their use is almost unheard of among civilians in any country with developed communications infrastructure. They are a staple among military, paramilitary and terrorist forces and the Syrian army has been - logically - using sat-phone signals to direct artillery strikes against the heavily armed insurgency.

She was not targeted by the Syrian Army and the Syrian Army didn't even know they were shelling a building containing journalists when she was killed.


Your faith in the Assad regime is remarkable. Maybe take a time out from trolling on this one though, eh?


Is there anything I said that is factually inaccurate?


'She was not targeted by the Syrian Army and the Syrian Army didn't even know they were shelling a building containing journalists when she was killed.'

That is speculative, not factual. There have been reports to the contrary: a french journalist who was with Colvin in Homs told the UK Daily Telegraph that they had been warned journalists in the city were being targeted. Satellite phones are expensive, but they are also a staple for correspondents filing copy from warzones. Of course, she could have been killed by a wayward shell, or maybe the Syrian Army thought they we
re targeting insurgents. The only people who know for sure are the SA commanders on the ground, presumably. Which is why we should be grateful that reporters like her are doing what they have to in order to report from the inside.


She snuck into Syria without clearing customs or immigration. Therefore, the burden of proof is the west's to show the Syrian Army even knew she was in country. Had she announced her presence, filed an arrival slip, etc., as western nations themselves demand from journalists entering their countries, it would be a different story.

I appreciate she took what she felt was a necessary risk but it's unnecessary to turn her death into a Tom Clancy adventure novel. No one has disputed that she was killed by a howitzer shell fired from kilometers away by troops who never saw her face, didn't know her name,or her profession, but were simply triangulating on the same type of signal being used by the suicide bombers who are massacring women and children in their country by the graveful (see: Aleppo).

When western armies do this they have a get out of jail free card - they just wave their hands in the air, yell "collateral damage!", convene a board of inquiry and then cruxify some underpaid corporal or private. Then the matter is forgotten. Syria doesn't have any of those cards, sad for them.


I can't disagree with the latter paragraph. But say what you will about her, Marie Colvin's reporting denounced, unstintingly, Assad's regime and what she says she saw its soldiers doing to civilians in Homs. There can't be much doubt that the regime a) knew she was there and b) read her reports, given they were published on the internet. And yes it's a very complicated situation, especially for western governments, and there is hypocrisy fucking everywhere, but there are still two sides to this. None of us have a real idea what happened, except that a courageous reporter has been killed. And frankly if you want to get rid of foreign journalists who have snuck in despite your best efforts to keep them out, and who are accusing you of indiscriminate murder, you couldn't do worse than targeting satellite phone signals.

In fact i'm not really sure what the western hypocrisy you allude to - which is as rank here as it ever is - has to do with her death. She seems like the kind of reporter that the rest of us depend on for holding the powerful to account in any country: comfort the afflicted, afflict the comfortable, to recycle the old cliche. I feel we are all worse off for her death.
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