Conquer Club

Stories have been comming out over the past week of a voter supperession effort in key contested ridings during the last Canadian federal ellection.

Liberal supporters and other voters were targeted by callers impersonating either elections canada officials or Liberal party volunteers.

They were either told that their polling station had moved(sending them to the wrong place) or were harrased(called late at night, rude) by people claiming to be Liberal campaing workers.

Already one conservative staffer has reseinged as a result. I wonder what the Elections Canada enquiry will turn up? Some by-elections in Canada's future?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2 ... affer.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2 ... urday.html

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02/24 ... -liberals/

More like voter "deppression" am I right guys? Huh huh huh?

2dimes wrote:More like voter "deppression" am I right guys? Huh huh huh?

They could do that without having to pick up the phone.

Baron Von PWN wrote:

2dimes wrote:More like voter "deppression" am I right guys? Huh huh huh?

They could do that without having to pick up the phone.

heh

Now that young staffer is claiming innocence and calling for the "guilty party" to step forward.
Also, calls in the Guelph riding have been traced back to a disposable phone which listed Pierre's Poutine restaurant as its address. The owner of the shop seemed unaware of what was going on.

Anyway, seems like pretty disturbing allegations, but at this point there isn't enough information to point fingers. Anyhow I have a few questions:

1) If this was systematically targeting Liberal voters, how on earth would the Liberal party membership list have gotten into the wrong hands? Aren't party membership lists guarded extremely carefully?

2) Who would have been stupid enough to order this activity to happen? You can't feed misinformation like that to thousands of people and expect to get away with it. I seriously doubt it was an MP. Whoever did it is a complete idiot.

3) How much would this have affected things anyway? Obviously it's illegal and whoever perpetrated it should definitely be prosecuted the full extent of the law, but seriously! Wouldn't voters head to the wrong station, realize it's not there, and head to the original correct location? Is it that difficult to go a little further? To say that these calls made a major difference in the election, as Bob Rae claims, is a slight to those Canadian citizens who received those calls because it's essentially saying they were too apathetic or stupid to continue to the right polling station.

4) Most importantly, why is your location listed as Georgia, BVP? lol

Ray Rider wrote:

Baron Von PWN wrote:

2dimes wrote:More like voter "deppression" am I right guys? Huh huh huh?

They could do that without having to pick up the phone.

heh

Now that young staffer is claiming innocence and calling for the "guilty party" to step forward.
Also, calls in the Guelph riding have been traced back to a disposable phone which listed Pierre's Poutine restaurant as its address. The owner of the shop seemed unaware of what was going on.

Anyway, seems like pretty disturbing allegations, but at this point there isn't enough information to point fingers. Anyhow I have a few questions:

1) If this was systematically targeting Liberal voters, how on earth would the Liberal party membership list have gotten into the wrong hands? Aren't party membership lists guarded extremely carefully?

2) Who would have been stupid enough to order this activity to happen? You can't feed misinformation like that to thousands of people and expect to get away with it. I seriously doubt it was an MP. Whoever did it is a complete idiot.

3) How much would this have affected things anyway? Obviously it's illegal and whoever perpetrated it should definitely be prosecuted the full extent of the law, but seriously! Wouldn't voters head to the wrong station, realize it's not there, and head to the original correct location? Is it that difficult to go a little further? To say that these calls made a major difference in the election, as Bob Rae claims, is a slight to those Canadian citizens who received those calls because it's essentially saying they were too apathetic or stupid to continue to the right polling station.

4) Most importantly, why is your location listed as Georgia, BVP? lol

Unless something really strange is going on i think its clear its someone in the Conservative party.

1. all manner of ways. If a cabinet minister can be foolish enough to leave secret documents lying around his house and Liberal party member can be foolish enough to leave the party lists somewhere it could be found.

2. I'm thinking its some overambitious but dumb low to mid level party campaign worker. Though the scale and breadth of the calls seems a bit large for that. Either way I doubt the higher ups had anything to do with it.

3. All they have to do is fool or dissuade a few voters. Sometimes that's all it can take. Take the ridding that got hit by robocalls that was won by the conservatives by 18 votes. I'm sure there were other tight riddings that could have been within a hundred votes.

4. I'm actually in Georgia. I'll be teaching english to the locals for the next few months.

this just keeps getting smellier and smellier.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... le2355176/

<BBS waits for the empirical data>

BigBallinStalin wrote:<BBS waits for the empirical data>

http://www.canada.com/news/Robocalls+sc ... story.html

elections Canada has received about 31, 000 complaints over the calls. Though of course there has been no proven link to any one party.

Baron Von PWN wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:<BBS waits for the empirical data>

http://www.canada.com/news/Robocalls+sc ... story.html

elections Canada has received about 31, 000 complaints over the calls. Though of course there has been no proven link to any one party.

Thanks, BVP!

That's pretty serious... I guess over time, we'll see how effective those calls were in swaying votes.

What really bothers me over this whole thing is that the government of Canada stands for freedom and democracy. Canada assists many other nations as they become democracies and we send people to oversee their elections to help ensure they are fair and equitable and to help prevent/deter fraud. But apparently the current government in power considers it OK to commit election fraud on it's own people.

Most complainants that received these calls either had signs on their lawns supporting a party other than the conservatives, or indicated to conservative campaigners by phone or at their door, that they did not intend to vote conservative. Apparently, the phone calls, door to door campaigners, and signs were put on a list by conservative party workers and then these people were targeted with automated calls indicating their voting station had moved. The evidence is clearly pointing at the conservative party.

This undermines democracy and what the Canadian people stand for. Our current government is making us a third world country and I find it embarrassing as well as making me quite angry. The conservatives are dismantling rights and freedoms in this country and they need to be stopped.

notyou2 wrote:What really bothers me over this whole thing is that the government of Canada stands for freedom and democracy. Canada assists many other nations as they become democracies and we send people to oversee their elections to help ensure they are fair and equitable and to help prevent/deter fraud. But apparently the current government in power considers it OK to commit election fraud on it's own people.

Most complainants that received these calls either had signs on their lawns supporting a party other than the conservatives, or indicated to conservative campaigners by phone or at their door, that they did not intend to vote conservative. Apparently, the phone calls, door to door campaigners, and signs were put on a list by conservative party workers and then these people were targeted with automated calls indicating their voting station had moved. The evidence is clearly pointing at the conservative party.

This undermines democracy and what the Canadian people stand for. Our current government is making us a third world country and I find it embarrassing as well as making me quite angry. The conservatives are dismantling rights and freedoms in this country and they need to be stopped.

This sentiment is bubbling away at the back of my mind. I'm pretty fing upset that someone, likely the conservatives, has done such a thing to subvert our democracy. However it's been held back by the lack of a smoking gun tying these events to the conservative leadership/ party. You can count on this though, I'm mentally sharpening my pitch fork and gathering torches.

Also connected to any one party or not, affected riddings should have by-elections. I think there is enough evidence to make clear that that's the course of action that should occur. However I want those byelections to happen after we find evidence linking this crap to the cons .

I feel it should be pointed out that this is the same political party that was found guilty of fraud and fined by elections canada for the In- out affair.

they've been caught lying again in parliament just recently. Accusing the Liberal party of using an american telemarketer(the robocalls came from the USA). While denying using american firms themselves. Yet its just been found out 14 conservative mp's used an american company, while the LIberals used a Canadian company.

They then use the "oh well we meant the national campaign!" slimy shits.

Also an interactive map of the allegations.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... om=2356455

From the map you see that a number of the ridings where complaints were filled, were quite close less than 1000 votes and then there were others that were moderately close. less than 10,000

Conservatives didn’t declare payments made to robocalls company, can’t explain why.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/06 ... stigation/

Conservatives are refusing to give elections Canada more investigative powers (same powers as provincial counter parts.)

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada ... 45903.html

Conservatives are refusing to release phone records. Blame Liberal party and election's Canada.


http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Torie ... story.html

This is certainly getting interesting.

It's becoming increasingly apparent the conservatives are behind this. Seems to me parliament should be dissolved and a new election held. A government which holds it position due to defrauding the voting public has no right to govern and should be made to answer to the people.

I'm verry curious as to how this will play out.

Question for americans if such apparently widespread fraud occured in one of your elections what would you do?

Also the Liberals have promised to release their phone records.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2 ... onday.html

Baron Von PWN wrote:Question for americans if such apparently widespread fraud occured in one of your elections what would you do?

Talk/learn about it on a forum? Talk/learn about it in the streets and/or on the interwebz? Get feedback, update, better inform others, and repeat.

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Baron Von PWN wrote:Question for americans if such apparently widespread fraud occured in one of your elections what would you do?

Talk/learn about it on a forum? Talk/learn about it in the streets and/or on the interwebz? Get feedback, update, better inform others, and repeat.

So exactly what I`m doing?

Baron Von PWN wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Baron Von PWN wrote:Question for americans if such apparently widespread fraud occured in one of your elections what would you do?

Talk/learn about it on a forum? Talk/learn about it in the streets and/or on the interwebz? Get feedback, update, better inform others, and repeat.

So exactly what I`m doing?

Pretty much. If people aren't aware, then one could get away with anything.

I hear writing a letter to your local politician is useful, but I think people overstate the effectiveness of that approach.

I won't pass judgement until all the fats are in. 31,000 complaints about robo-calls, doesn't mean they are all against the Conservatives. I received several during the campaign from my local NDP candidate. None from the Liberal or Conservative candidates. Were all 31,000 complaints regarding false polling information? Not likely. But we'll see when all is said an done.

Ever since the media drooled over Rob Ford's robocall campaign, everyone has gotten totally obsessed with it. The way some of the analysts talked, you'd think robocalls were the only reason Ford won. Fact is, they were helpful to his campaign, but they were hardly the decisive Superweapon That Changed the Course of History that the media want you to think they were.

In the week leading up to the last election, I got seven robocalls -- four from the Liberal, two from the Conservative, and one from the NDP. This too will pass. As for fake robocalls, they are to real robocalls what kicking over your opponents' lawn signs is to lawn signage -- a trick that overenthusiastic campaign staffers will engage in during their off-hours, not officially endorsed by the actual candidates. And like kicking over lawn signs, it will have zero real effect.

Can you tell how horrified I am by this "issue"?

Baron Von PWN wrote:Question for americans if such apparently widespread fraud occured in one of your elections what would you do?

LOL, this happens like every election. It just happened last weekend (see video). Happy 18th birthday, Canada - now you can buy cigarettes and porn!

People always ask Who stood to benefit? People should ask Who actually benefited?

Pre-election every major poll and conventional wisdom saw a Tory victory. The Conservatives had little to nothing to gain by misdirecting a few thousand Liberal votes spread across several non-competitive ridings. The opportunity cost, however, would be extremely high. Placing several thousand obviously fake phone calls made it a foregone conclusion that the subterfuge would be discovered. The price the Tories would be forced to pay in eroded prestige and diminished public confidence would be high.

Keeping in mind political campaigns don't exist in neatly bookended calendar segments like the general public perceives - this is the 2011 federal election, this is the 2016 federal election, etc. - in the grand scheme of things who is actually benefiting from this right now? The answer to that should ID the responsible group.

Dukasaur wrote:Ever since the media drooled over Rob Ford's robocall campaign, everyone has gotten totally obsessed with it. The way some of the analysts talked, you'd think robocalls were the only reason Ford won. Fact is, they were helpful to his campaign, but they were hardly the decisive Superweapon That Changed the Course of History that the media want you to think they were.

In the week leading up to the last election, I got seven robocalls -- four from the Liberal, two from the Conservative, and one from the NDP. This too will pass. As for fake robocalls, they are to real robocalls what kicking over your opponents' lawn signs is to lawn signage -- a trick that overenthusiastic campaign staffers will engage in during their off-hours, not officially endorsed by the actual candidates. And like kicking over lawn signs, it will have zero real effect.

Can you tell how horrified I am by this "issue"?

A number of riddings were won by less than a hundred votes. Is it all that surprising that it could have fooled 100 people?

There's also evidence that those who received the misleading calls were identified as non-conservative supporters.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... tion-.html

Baron Von PWN wrote:Stories have been comming out over the past week of a voter supperession effort in key contested ridings during the last Canadian federal ellection.

Liberal supporters and other voters were targeted by callers impersonating either elections canada officials or Liberal party volunteers.

They were either told that their polling station had moved(sending them to the wrong place) or were harrased(called late at night, rude) by people claiming to be Liberal campaing workers.

Already one conservative staffer has reseinged as a result. I wonder what the Elections Canada enquiry will turn up? Some by-elections in Canada's future?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2 ... affer.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2 ... urday.html

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02/24 ... -liberals/

Talk about getting RonPauled out of nowhere! I heard Canada swung FAR right this last election. How far did yall swang?

And on your topic, politics is the dirtiest game out there. It's so dirty it's almost not possible to win clean. Wish some peeps here would realize that...

Phatscotty wrote:I heard Canada swung FAR right this last election. How far did yall swang?

You know how it is with the Marxist-dominated media. Anyone who doesn't preach straight out of Das Kapital is considered "ultra-right." The truth is that not much has changed. The Conservatives got a majority instead of the minority that they've been working with for the last two Parliaments. That means that they'll be able to pass some of their less popular proposals. Unfortunately, this includes some of their stupider ideas, like forcing Crown Attorneys to start prosecuting pot possession cases again (for the last 20 years or so, we're had de facto albeit not de jure decriminalization of pot, because Crown Attorneys simply stopped wasting money prosecuting simple possession cases.) But on all the core issues like taxes nothing will change.