Conquer Club

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:02 pm**

The much-heralded "Anonymous" and "LulzSec" turn out to be elaborate FBI honey pots. Today U.S. Secret Police (FBI) forces fanned across the globe rounding up numerous high-level "hackers" who had been denounced to them by the semi-mythical "Sabu" - purported "wanted" leader of "Anonymous" - who turned out to be a run-of-the-mill FBI informant. The false-front criminal operation was a State Security honey pot designed to bring all the world's most talented hackers into one place where they could be rounded up and relocated to U.S. prison camps.

http://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments ... g_for_the/

http://gizmodo.com/5890825/lulzsec-lead ... -anonymous

"Sabu" had been turning over details on the entire "Anonymous" organization to the Secret Police for more than 2 years, even while he was directing hacktivist attacks at supposed "targets" which would be dutifully and breathlessly reported by the corporate media - but were designed to attract even more lone wolf hackers into Anonymous' (FBI) fold by ramping up publicity ...

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2012/03 ... ackers.pdf

While working for the US Government, Sabu's Secret Police superiors ordered him to found the new group "LulzSec" to snare even more enemies of the state.

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:07 pm**

In other words, every "leak" you've seen for the last 2+ years had been pre-vetted by the Secret Police. They were all things you were supposed to see.

Remember, foolish westerners, everyone you've been told is your friend is your enemy, everyone you've been told is your enemy is your friend!

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:22 pm**

You havent provided info for your last titbit, that is Lulz sec was setup for the purpose of a sting. The story sounds like he/Lulzsec was originally a genuine hacking outfit, but once he got caught they used him to capture other members of Lulzsec.

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:24 pm**

Lootifer wrote:You havent provided info for your last titbit, that is Lulz sec was setup for the purpose of a sting. The story sounds like he/Lulzsec was originally a genuine hacking outfit, but once he got caught they used him to capture other members of Lulzsec.

Yep, that's the impression I got as well.

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:26 pm**

Lootifer wrote:You havent provided info for your last titbit

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:30 pm**

natty dread wrote:
Lootifer wrote:You havent provided info for your last titbit, that is Lulz sec was setup for the purpose of a sting. The story sounds like he/Lulzsec was originally a genuine hacking outfit, but once he got caught they used him to capture other members of Lulzsec.

Yep, that's the impression I got as well.

Lulzesc first emerged in May 2011.

According to the U.S. Grand Jury indictment, Sabu had been an FBI informant for at least 2 years.

The current year is 2012.

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:49 pm**

LMAO!!!!!!!

A second document shows that Monsegur – styled this time as CW-1 – was provided an FBI-owned computer to facilitate the release of 5m emails taken from US security consultancy Stratfor and which are now being published by WikiLeaks.That suggests the FBI may have had an inside track on discussions between Julian Assange of WikiLeaks, and Anonymous, another hacking group, about the leaking of thousands of confidential emails and documents.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/20 ... sfeed=true

The FBI themselves "leaked" the Stratfor emails. As far as we know they may have leaked the "State Department cables."

And yet everyone will still believe the easy 2-dimensional explanation that Bashar al-Assad is some kind of moustachioed cartoon bad guy, like Col. Qaddafi before him. Even after the curtain is pulled 95% of the way back you humans are so gullible you'll hold onto the belief that the last 5% contains the comfortable truth you once knew.

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:51 pm**

good, this'll teach the next hacker group how they need to operate.

the only way for "hacktivists" to really function is as a peer to peer network.
no privileged members
no connections to anyone except the few you're working with on any operation
no trust

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:02 pm**

saxitoxin wrote:
natty dread wrote:
Lootifer wrote:You havent provided info for your last titbit, that is Lulz sec was setup for the purpose of a sting. The story sounds like he/Lulzsec was originally a genuine hacking outfit, but once he got caught they used him to capture other members of Lulzsec.

Yep, that's the impression I got as well.

Lulzesc first emerged in May 2011.

According to the U.S. Grand Jury indictment, Sabu had been an FBI informant for at least 2 years.

The current year is 2012.

Ah right; not gunna lie, couldnt be fucked looking through the PDF indictment.

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:14 pm**

Now, ten minutes ago, "Anonymous" has just "hacked" the Panda Security website -

http://pandalabs.pandasecurity.com/

- to prove they still exist. But do they or are the Secret Police just trying to play on people's hopes by milking out the last pieces of usefulness of their "Anonymous" front operation? To reassure everyone that there is still some domestic dissent ... an Emmanuel Goldstein through which the plebes can funnel their anger and be safely observed ... while in reality the FBI-Secret Police have their fingers in every pot.

When Anonymous went after the Church of Scientology didn't ol' Saxi question how anti-establishment a group could be when it was doing the dirty work of the "west" German Secret Police (AKA "Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz")?

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:32 pm**

Dude I don't understand what I'm looking at anymore. This is all screwed up.... does the word "color" actually have a "u" in it? This is turning everything upside down for me. I need to stop using my third facebook account for planning shit. This fricking internet.

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:47 pm**

Haggis_McMutton wrote:good, this'll teach the next hacker group how they need to operate.

the only way for "hacktivists" to really function is as a peer to peer network.
no privileged members
no connections to anyone except the few you're working with on any operation
no trust

That comes with a huge price in ineffectiveness.

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:22 pm**

Another thing to marinate upon ...

If Sabu was FBI informant this long, "Occupy" essentially was kickstarted by the Secret Police [FBI]. (Note I didn't say founded, I said kickstarted. People can unintentionally kickstart something, however, at this point are you very likely to believe an organization that was able to engineer this level of multi-layered deception that clouded the global media, hundreds of hackers and the viewing public for several years makes very many mistakes?)

LE SIGH

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:30 pm**

Well, it's just the nature of defection, sax. The FBI used Sabu in order to further penetrate the Lulzsec movement. They can't simply stop at Sabu; otherwise, the operation wouldn't have been nearly as effective. Another "Sabu" could easily restart the movement.

I'm opting for (2);

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:31 pm**

Myth: The FBI is just about chasing down bank robbers and drug kingpins and is populated by paunchy, middle-aged, balding guys wearing cheap suits and driving Ford Crown Victorias.

Remember ...

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/faqs

Q: Is the FBI a type of national police force?
A: No. The FBI is a national security organization.

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:33 pm**

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Haggis_McMutton wrote:good, this'll teach the next hacker group how they need to operate.

the only way for "hacktivists" to really function is as a peer to peer network.
no privileged members
no connections to anyone except the few you're working with on any operation
no trust

That comes with a huge price in ineffectiveness.

Hmm, maybe.

I guess it depends what the goal is.
If what you're trying to do is just boycott, punish and draw public attention to certain issues, such as paypal blacklisting wikileaks or whatever, I don't think the penalty is too big.

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:38 pm**

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=166384#p3632686

however, I have seen organizations capture movements or beneficial programs (e.g. 1979 Iranian clergy capture and control the resistance movement; various insurgent/terrorist organizations do the same in war-torn areas where NPOs and governments try to administer goods--as seen in Iraq, especially during reconstruction in 2004 and onward),...

...so it might be possible that the FBI could capture Lulzsec and use it to advance "their agenda" ... but that would be difficult to cover up because that requires breaking many effectively enforced laws and the defection constraint for the FBI (I imagine) isn't high enough to prevent their members from releasing *leaks regarding* such diabolical schemes on the people they've sworn to protect.

I think you have a better case with the CIA and other obscure organizations or offshoots due to their significantly decreased transparency, the significantly more costly means of enforcement/non-CIA observance of the law, and so on and so forth.

*(words)* included in EDIT

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:44 pm**

Haggis_McMutton wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Haggis_McMutton wrote:good, this'll teach the next hacker group how they need to operate.

the only way for "hacktivists" to really function is as a peer to peer network.
no privileged members
no connections to anyone except the few you're working with on any operation
no trust

That comes with a huge price in ineffectiveness.

Hmm, maybe.

I guess it depends what the goal is.
If what you're trying to do is just boycott, punish and draw public attention to certain issues, such as paypal blacklisting wikileaks or whatever, I don't think the penalty is too big.

For things like that, I'd more or less agree.

It mainly depends on the value of the target affected, the perpetrators' resources, and their defection constraint (i.e. ability to prevent members from ratting out).

So, the organizational effectiveness of Lulzsec enabled its members to coordinate and more effectively hit high-value targets. With a decentralized movement of highly compartmentalized members, you get a significant decrease in effectiveness, which limits the long-term vitality of the movement. (If a smaller compartment hits a high value target, the government has a much stronger incentive to get the members to defect, which includes bribes and more resources into investigation, etc.).

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:56 pm**

I actually do feel stupid though.

Suddenly I see that the government is like Carl Sagan's aliens in Contact. You don't become eternal by taking risks. Risk is unacceptable. You don't ever make a move until you already know the outcome.

I'm freaking out. If even the mighty anon could be penetrated by the shaft of justice, then my paltry "attack Springfield with a catapult" group wont get anywhere. We wont get the chance to be arrested on the field. And then we'll never be able to Chavez our revolutionary candidate to office. We're doomed to this lower middle class life forever.

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:57 pm**

BigBallinStalin wrote: the defection constraint for the FBI (I imagine) isn't high enough to prevent their members from releasing *leaks regarding* such diabolical schemes

There have been FBI agents who defected to the Eastern block. They were always unavailable for interview (even the ones captured) so we had to assume what the FBI said regarding the defections was true - the person was a drug addict, insane, a closet homosexual, etc. In every case of any defection from the west to the east at any point in history, the defector always had some kind of serious personality flaw. It was, ostensibly, never for genuine ideological motivation or irritation at unethical operations.

There have also been FBI agents who defected to the public interest. This doesn't carry criminal penalties, however, they similarly, are flawed somehow according to official statements. They were advanced to senior positions over dozens of years - even considered for the job of Director-General - but, according to post-defection statements, they were lazy, malcontent, had credit problems, messy personal lives, etc. And that's that. No media follow-up. To leak something - unless you mail a personal letter to every American - you need media cooperation.

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:31 pm**

saxitoxin wrote:The much-heralded "Anonymous" and "LulzSec" turn out to be elaborate FBI honey pots. Today U.S. Secret Police (FBI) forces fanned across the globe rounding up numerous high-level "hackers" who had been denounced to them by the semi-mythical "Sabu" - purported "wanted" leader of "Anonymous" - who turned out to be a run-of-the-mill FBI informant. The false-front criminal operation was a State Security honey pot designed to bring all the world's most talented hackers into one place where they could be rounded up and relocated to U.S. prison camps.

http://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments ... g_for_the/

http://gizmodo.com/5890825/lulzsec-lead ... -anonymous

"Sabu" had been turning over details on the entire "Anonymous" organization to the Secret Police for more than 2 years, even while he was directing hacktivist attacks at supposed "targets" which would be dutifully and breathlessly reported by the corporate media - but were designed to attract even more lone wolf hackers into Anonymous' (FBI) fold by ramping up publicity ...

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2012/03 ... ackers.pdf

While working for the US Government, Sabu's Secret Police superiors ordered him to found the new group "LulzSec" to snare even more enemies of the state.

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:27 pm**

saxitoxin wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote: the defection constraint for the FBI (I imagine) isn't high enough to prevent their members from releasing *leaks regarding* such diabolical schemes

There have been FBI agents who defected to the Eastern block. They were always unavailable for interview (even the ones captured) so we had to assume what the FBI said regarding the defections was true - the person was a drug addict, insane, a closet homosexual, etc. In every case of any defection from the west to the east at any point in history, the defector always had some kind of serious personality flaw. It was, ostensibly, never for genuine ideological motivation or irritation at unethical operations.

There have also been FBI agents who defected to the public interest. This doesn't carry criminal penalties, however, they similarly, are flawed somehow according to official statements. They were advanced to senior positions over dozens of years - even considered for the job of Director-General - but, according to post-defection statements, they were lazy, malcontent, had credit problems, messy personal lives, etc. And that's that. No media follow-up. To leak something - unless you mail a personal letter to every American - you need media cooperation.

Judging from that link and from my following google tangents, Ted Gunderson's claims have some serious [citation needed] problems.

Of course, some NSA projects, e.g. data mining, have a great potential in threatening the liberty of this country, as well as many others. No doubt, such services have been exploited by the executive branch to procure some benefit to them.

Posted: **Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:49 pm**

saxitoxin wrote:
According to the U.S. Grand Jury indictment, Sabu had been an FBI informant for at least 2 years.

care to quote this part of the pdf? i can't seem to find it.

furthermore, "anonymous" is not an FBI sting operation. i don't even think lulzsec was originally a sting operation.

furtherfurthermore, one of the primary goals of lulzsec and related groups was to bring public exposure to the lack of security in most modern computer systems. in this sense, any news is good news, and i'm sure there is enough hacking talent among anonymous to keep up these activities. it's not like they were in it for the money or anything.

Haggis_McMutton wrote:good, this'll teach the next hacker group how they need to operate.

the only way for "hacktivists" to really function is as a peer to peer network.
no privileged members
no connections to anyone except the few you're working with on any operation
no trust

i was going to say something like this, but you said it well.

Posted: **Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:32 am**

John is correct - I misread and was looking at a different section. Though, I nonetheless find it odd LulzSec first became public in the same four-week period "Sabu" joined the Secret Police payroll (June 2011).

His last tweets today which he made from U.S. government computers hours before the Secret Police began rounding-up Enemies of the State in the UK and Ireland for relocation to The Camps:

- "The feds at this moment are scouring our lives without warrants. Without judges approval. This needs to change. Asap"
- "The federal government is run by a bunch of fucking cowards. Don't give in to these people. Fight back. Stay strong"

One moment please ...

Okay, now that that's done ... the videos and reports the U.S. Government provides regarding the Syrian Opposition and the Libyan NTC are 100% spot-on. There's no reason for you to start questioning those. The feds don't have any darkly humorous cynicism. They're incapable of using the media to present a distorted version of the truth.

(Seriously, though, they don't need a Mind Eraser to guarantee that 99% of the world's public will subscribe to that. The grumblings of armchair activists and message board revolutionaries are just mental masturbation. The implications of all this is too terrifying for anyone to wrap their mind around so the public will convince themselves it's not part of a pattern nor indicative of any larger reality. Fear trumps logical reasoning.)

Posted: **Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:09 pm**

Haggis_McMutton wrote:good, this'll teach the next hacker group how they need to operate.

the only way for "hacktivists" to really function is as a peer to peer network.
no privileged members
no connections to anyone except the few you're working with on any operation
no trust

Like Sleeper cells?
Perhaps they can learn a few things from al-qada?

Conquer Club

"Anonymous" Revealed as Long-Running FBI Sting Operation

"Anonymous" Revealed as Long-Running FBI Sting Operation

Re: "Anonymous" Revealed as Long-Running FBI Sting Operation

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Re: "Anonymous" Revealed as Long-Running FBI Sting Operation