Conquer Club

What are your views on capital punishment?

Within my limited awareness of society and politics, I have determined the best answer is not to fry them (as haggis so ingeniously put it) but to have them work in very hazardous conditions that would be too life threatening for a regular worker to do, or have gladiator fights like in ancient times.

This way the murderers aren't getting off easy by just dying a sometimes painless death and if they are ever proven innocent after their sentence they have a chance of "coming back from the dead" as in stop being imprisoned / enslaved and start living a normal life again.

This also opens another can of worms: is it better to kill the killers or enslave them? They're not much good dead but enslaved they could help build society.

To what extent do you agree / disagree?

-SG7 ( )

It is not the state's job to satisfy the victims' lust for murderous revenge.
It should not be within the state's power to murder it's citizens.

That's it. All the other discussions about cost and deterrent and whatever are red herrings as far as I'm concerned.

As to your OP, not sure how serious you are, but gladiator fights or intentionally hazardous conditions are obviously ridiculous.
I don't have anything against getting some cheap labour out of the prison population though.

I am in favor of gladiatorial fights

Haggis_McMutton wrote:I don't have anything against getting some cheap labour out of the prison population though.

This was more or less along the lines of what I was thinking, except the people on death row would be included and would not be killed.

There are very dangerous jobs that someone has to do, and why not give those jobs to someone who's supposed to die anyways? It would harm the murderers rather than the innocent civilians. That's what I was thinking with hazardous jobs.

-SG7 ( )

Army of GOD wrote:I am in favor of gladiatorial fights

how much would you pay for tickets?

shieldgenerator7 wrote:

Army of GOD wrote:I am in favor of gladiatorial fights

how much would you pay for tickets?

40

Army of GOD wrote:

shieldgenerator7 wrote:

Army of GOD wrote:I am in favor of gladiatorial fights

how much would you pay for tickets?

40

make it 50 and you got a deal

how many fights per show?

Army of GOD wrote:how many fights per show?

16 player tourney, probably about 15 fights total, depending on how many survivors at the end of each round

Public punishment could be better in warding off repeat offenders, even minor ones, shame is a great deterrent, as shown by classic and even modern revivals, such as the "Ted Poe" sentences from when he was a judge in Texas.
The point of "justice" and the like, on a humanist level, has the function of keeping dangers of society out of the workings, however it is most efficient, and by what means we can ensure the innocent are not punished are of the most importance.
Death is one option, especially in times of crisis, what is gone is gone.

Slavery is a sticky situation, it negates the loss we take by keeping the prisoner alive, but when we allow an easy means to escape our own responsibilities (creating an "underclass" that does our work for us) there are always those who will abuse this, just see the Reconstruction Era and beyond from the American South, by creating a cheap workforce it was in the "law enforcement industry's" best interest to make false charges to shore up the numbers of potential workers, slavery under a different guise, but still the exploitation of another to line their own pocket's.

I would say, for very small, or for societies already nearing their breaking points where the criminal's uprisings are always a threat, death.
For an ideal fictionalized world where we could weed out all greed and laziness in our own system, slavery.
For a the rest of the real world, I would say the ideal is to make the inmates work just enough to break even with the guard salaries, prison upkeep and the like, there is no incentive to capture prisoners unnecessarily, and no undue strain on the nation's wallets.

also gladiators are kind of cool.

/ wrote:Public punishment could be better in warding off repeat offenders, even minor ones, shame is a great deterrent, as shown by classic and even modern revivals, such as the "Ted Poe" sentences from when he was a judge in Texas.
The point of "justice" and the like, on a humanist level, has the function of keeping dangers of society out of the workings, however it is most efficient, and by what means we can ensure the innocent are not punished are of the most importance.
Death is one option, especially in times of crisis, what is gone is gone.

Slavery is a sticky situation, it negates the loss we take by keeping the prisoner alive, but when we allow an easy means to escape our own responsibilities (creating an "underclass" that does our work for us) there are always those who will abuse this, just see the Reconstruction Era and beyond from the American South, by creating a cheap workforce it was in the "law enforcement industry's" best interest to make false charges to shore up the numbers of potential workers, slavery under a different guise, but still the exploitation of another to line their own pocket's.

I would say, for very small, or for societies already nearing their breaking points where the criminal's uprisings are always a threat, death.
For an ideal fictionalized world where we could weed out all greed and laziness in our own system, slavery.
For a the rest of the real world, I would say the ideal is to make the inmates work just enough to break even with the guard salaries, prison upkeep and the like, there is no incentive to capture prisoners unnecessarily, and no undue strain on the nation's wallets.

also gladiators are kind of cool.

I like you. Fix up your grammar and typography and I won't have a reason to find you annoying at all. And don't use smilies, they're for the little kids and for when you want to talk to the little kids.

No offense Scotty

Army of GOD wrote::-({|=

Was that code, or an expression of an emotion so complex it could not be contained in a single emoticon?

Symmetry wrote:

Army of GOD wrote::-({|=

Was that code, or an expression of an emotion so complex it could not be contained in a single emoticon?

I was just expressing my inner targetman

Haggis wrote:It is not the state's job to satisfy the victims' lust for murderous revenge.
It should not be within the state's power to murder it's citizens.

This.

Not that I wouldn't kill the hypothetical person who killed one of mine, though.

-TG

Good point, /. Corporations and greedy politicians might use this as an excuse to keep slaves

But I must say that people don't go on death row without a trial. So in this day and age it would be near impossible for a corporation to make false charges against someone and still hope to "win" the trial of that person, unless they bribed the jury or supplied their own jurers.

Furthermore, the would-be-deadmen would not be handed out as just regular old slaves or servants because they've already proven they can kill (in most cases) so they'd have to be under close supervision. I doubt the corporations would want to enslave killers, or that law would allow the corporations to own these slaves

BTW the smilies are cool It is a childish thought to think they're childish

-SG7 ( )

I kind of agree that Capital Punishment is deeply flawed, so kudos on admitting that. Maybe you're not the vindictive prick I took you for,

It does, as you say, basically cater to a flawed idea of vengeance without actually solving anything, and while costing a lot more in terms of both, to paraphrase your point, "monetary costs and moral credibility".

Still, well put.

The goal of punishing a crime is to prevent the crime from occurring again. Imprisoning someone for life does that. Killing them is inhumane and unnecessary.

Frigidus wrote:The goal of punishing a crime is to prevent the crime from occurring again. Imprisoning someone for life does that. Killing them is inhumane and unnecessary.

yes but it costs a lot to just imprison them. they need to be doing something to contribute to society while in prison

shieldgenerator7 wrote:

Frigidus wrote:The goal of punishing a crime is to prevent the crime from occurring again. Imprisoning someone for life does that. Killing them is inhumane and unnecessary.

yes but it costs a lot to just imprison them. they need to be doing something to contribute to society while in prison

Why? If forced labour was part of their sentence I'd be with you. If not, what's your point?

To be honest, I wouldn't be with you even if prisons became labour camps, but take it as a hypothetical.

Symmetry wrote:To be honest, I wouldn't be with you even if prisons became labour camps, but take it as a hypothetical.

heh hehe talking to me or frigidus?