Conquer Club

/ wrote:Fine I'll bite, substantiate your claims that what the US is doing is worse than Saddam leading a genocide against 600,000 Kurds.

Afghanistan war - civilian deaths: 25,000 (source
Iraq war - civilian deaths: 600,000 (source)

Both aggressions started by the US.

Also, there's the concentration camps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo ... ntion_camp

natty dread wrote:Afghanistan war - civilian deaths: 25,000 (source

There are a few things you fail to account by these statistics, these are not reports of whom the Americans shot, it is a generalization of all war related fatalities, casualties from the terrorists' wanton bombings and firefights included.

natty dread wrote:Iraq war - civilian deaths: 600,000 (source)

This one is flawed in so many ways, for one, it is not a report of civilian casualties, it is a surveyed estimation of the amount of households with known members deceased, we;

A. Cannot call the deaths civilian, there is no statistic data to any of their affiliations, and thus no way to know the justification of their deaths, they may have fought for either side.

B. Cannot blame the deaths on any one cause, violent deaths accounted for only 300 of the surveyed.

C. Cannot count on the data as an actual statistical representation of the whole of Iraq, for this you need to know more about Iraqi household structure, many of the more "prominent" Iraqis still live in very large households with the whole of their extended families, these families are more likely to take a political interest in their nation, and thus more likely to be involved in conflicts for either side and lose more members of their households, this has the potential to skew statistical data greatly if entered.

The source you yourself give admits to a 549,657 person estimated margin of error. Most sources indicate around 110,000, including the injured and Iraqi combatants from both sides http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

natty dread wrote:Both aggressions started by the US.

For the war in Afghanistan, I disagree, the criminal organization al-Qaeda had called for a global jihad as early as 1994, the Afghani Taliban had given al-Qaeda a role in their Ministry of Defense in 1996, al-Qaeda had caused attacks against the world at large, the main target being America, egro the Taliban government attacked America. NATO officially voted it an act of retaliation.

natty dread wrote:Also, there's the concentration camps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo ... ntion_camp

From the article you provided

Since January 2002, 779 men have been seized and brought to Guantanamo.[23] [24] [25] Eight men died in the prison camp and 600 have been released.

The facilities themselves
http://www.defense.gov/home/features/gi ... ities.html


Now I would prefer not to derail this thread any further, if you have nothing more to say about the original post, then I will conclude conversation with you in this thread.

/ wrote:For the war in Afghanistan, I disagree

You can disagree with the facts but it doesn't make them any less true.

lynch5762 wrote:Okay so I guess I am a bit confused.... How did a thread concerning an innocent man being sentenced to death turn into a debate about the US war policies?

The fact that this is an international site, accompanied by the fact that there are many young and vocal members in this forum, makes this a fascinating venue to voice opinions. That being said, I am amazed at how quickly discussions get side-railed and off topic.

If we want to talk about the atrocities of foreign leaders then lets discuss them but this thread had a specific question and topic.

I realize that, my apologies, I am new to this particular section and forgot how spirited I can become at times, I have reported my post to the moderators and requested the posts in question be moved to an alternate thread.

Per /'s request, this topic has been split.

Thanks moderators, my apologies, I wasn't on yesterday on time to make the thread myself as requested.

natty dread wrote:

/ wrote:For the war in Afghanistan, I disagree

You can disagree with the facts but it doesn't make them any less true.

Do you disagree with the rest of that sentence, or just that one fragment?
And who should decide what counts as a legitimate war? These wars were authorized by NATO as well as the United Nations Security Council Resolutions, what further measures would be needed to ensure "legitimacy"?

lynch5762 wrote:Okay so I guess I am a bit confused.... How did a thread concerning an innocent man being sentenced to death turn into a debate about the US war policies?

Answer: Europeans