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Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

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Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby Woodruff on Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:54 am

...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby Symmetry on Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:46 pm



Tuberculosis is a lung disease more associated with the 18th century than the 21st, referred to as “consumption” in Dickensian times because its victims would grow gaunt and wan as their lungs disintigrated and they slowly died. The CDC investigator described a similar fate for 10 of the 13 people who died in Jacksonville.


FFS, this can be vaccinated against.
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:59 pm

Symmetry wrote:


Tuberculosis is a lung disease more associated with the 18th century than the 21st, referred to as “consumption” in Dickensian times because its victims would grow gaunt and wan as their lungs disintigrated and they slowly died. The CDC investigator described a similar fate for 10 of the 13 people who died in Jacksonville.


FFS, this can be vaccinated against.


A terrible idea. IIRC, neither the U.S., Canada nor the Netherlands conduct routine TB vaccinations because of the significant side-effects of the TB vaccine. This should only be used in developing countries like East Timor, Sri Lanka, Ukraine, UK, etc., where potential risks outweigh possible harms.
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:10 pm

A lot of this is coming from Mexico, and don't forget there were a few outbreaks during Occupy Wall Street. Anyone remember "Zuccotti Lung"? LMFAO That happened in New York about a year ago. All the Southern border states have issues with Tuberculosis.

I did not read the article yet, but I'm gonna guess this is not blamed on illegal immigration or homelessness, and it is blamed on some kind of cut in government. Lemme see
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby Symmetry on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:13 pm

Phatscotty wrote:A lot of this is coming from Mexico, and don't forget there were a few outbreaks during Occupy Wall Street. Anyone remember "Zuccotti Lung"?

LMFAO


In Florida?
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:15 pm

Symmetry wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:A lot of this is coming from Mexico, and don't forget there were a few outbreaks during Occupy Wall Street. Anyone remember "Zuccotti Lung"?

LMFAO


In Florida?


New york. Sorry I realized i did not state in the previous post, but it's there now!
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:19 pm

Medical science has not yet diagnosed "being Mexican" as a cause of tuberculosis. In fact, the rate of TB infection in Mexico is - while slightly worse than the U.S. - roughly on-par with white developing nations like the UK and Poland, as this chart shows:

Image
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby Symmetry on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:21 pm

Seems like vaccination is the way forward.
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:24 pm

Symmetry wrote:Seems like vaccination is the way forward.


yes, in the developing world and in countries with high rates of infection

where there is no, or minimal risk, routine vaccination for any disease is discouraged ... the same reason Icelanders aren't routinely vaccinated for malaria
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:28 pm

Symmetry wrote:Seems like vaccination is the way forward.


Man you are a committed Progressive aren't ya! I will give you that.

I can only pray nobody has to pee in a cup before they have something forcefully injected into their bodies! :lol:
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby Symmetry on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:29 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Seems like vaccination is the way forward.


yes, in the developing world and in countries with high rates of infection


What worries you about vaccinating against TB? You've never struck me as one of the anti-vaccination crowd before. If it's a problem in the US as big as the countries you identify as being in the developing world, correctly or incorrectly, and you support vaccination in those countries, I'm at a bit of a loss to understand your issue.
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:33 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Medical science has not yet diagnosed "being Mexican" as a cause of tuberculosis. In fact, the rate of TB infection in Mexico is - while slightly worse than the U.S. - roughly on-par with white developing nations like the UK and Poland, as this chart shows:


Being Mexican is not the cause of tubersulosis, but Mexico is where the great majority of the TB cases in the USA are coming from.

See Friday’s (June 24, 2005) Investor’s Business Daily editorial...
In an article in the Journal of the American Medical Assn., Dr. Reuben Granich, a lead investigator for the Centers for Disase Control and Preention, reports the emergence in the U.S. of a particularly virulent, multi-drug -resistant form of tuberculosis known as MDR-TB.

“Evidence of it has surfaced in 38 of 61 California health jurisdictions, and it could ‘threaten the efficacy of TB control efforts,’ Granich said. The infected were said to be four times as likely to die from the disease and twice as likely to transmit the disease to others.

“Reluctant to label the infected as ‘illegal’ or even ‘undocumented’ aliens, the report notes that of the 407 known cases of MDR-TB, 84% were ‘foreign-born’ patients, mainly from Mexico and the Philippines who’d been in the U.S. less than five years. The percentage of TB cases among the ‘foreign-born’ jumped from 29% in 1993 to 53% as of last year.


Last edited by Phatscotty on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:35 pm

Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Seems like vaccination is the way forward.


yes, in the developing world and in countries with high rates of infection


What worries you about vaccinating against TB? You've never struck me as one of the anti-vaccination crowd before. If it's a problem in the US as big as the countries you identify as being in the developing world, correctly or incorrectly, and you support vaccination in those countries, I'm at a bit of a loss to understand your issue.


Medical consensus is that routine vaccination should not occur in the absence of risk. The rate of TB infection in the UK is nearly 400% that of the U.S. and the Netherlands.

    - There is a reason to vaccinate in the UK. There is not a reason to vaccinate in the U.S. and the Netherlands; ergo, they don't.

    - There is a reason for Guatemalans to receive the malaria vaccine. There is not a reason for Welshmen to receive the malaria vaccine; ergo, they don't.

Let me know if you have any additional questions or are seeking further learning opportunities!
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:37 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Seems like vaccination is the way forward.


yes, in the developing world and in countries with high rates of infection


What worries you about vaccinating against TB? You've never struck me as one of the anti-vaccination crowd before. If it's a problem in the US as big as the countries you identify as being in the developing world, correctly or incorrectly, and you support vaccination in those countries, I'm at a bit of a loss to understand your issue.


Medical consensus is that routine vaccination should not occur in the absence of risk. The rate of TB infection in the UK is nearly 400% that of the U.S. and the Netherlands.

    - There is a reason to vaccinate in the UK. There is not a reason to vaccinate in the U.S. and the Netherlands; ergo, they don't.

    - There is a reason for Guatemalans to receive the malaria vaccine. There is not a reason for Welshmen to receive the malaria vaccine; ergo, they don't.

Let me know if you have any additional questions or are seeking further learning opportunities!


Don't forget now, this thread is not really so much about TB, as it is about the state of Florida, the governor of Florida, and the funds the Governor cut in Florida. Gotta keep an eye on Woody.
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby Symmetry on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:39 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Medical science has not yet diagnosed "being Mexican" as a cause of tuberculosis. In fact, the rate of TB infection in Mexico is - while slightly worse than the U.S. - roughly on-par with white developing nations like the UK and Poland, as this chart shows:


See Friday’s (June 24, 2005) Investor’s Business Daily editorial...
In an article in the Journal of the American Medical Assn., Dr. Reuben Granich, a lead investigator for the Centers for Disase Control and Preention, reports the emergence in the U.S. of a particularly virulent, multi-drug -resistant form of tuberculosis known as MDR-TB.

“Evidence of it has surfaced in 38 of 61 California health jurisdictions, and it could ‘threaten the efficacy of TB control efforts,’ Granich said. The infected were said to be four times as likely to die from the disease and twice as likely to transmit the disease to others.

“Reluctant to label the infected as ‘illegal’ or even ‘undocumented’ aliens, the report notes that of the 407 known cases of MDR-TB, 84% were ‘foreign-born’ patients, mainly from Mexico and the Philippines who’d been in the U.S. less than five years. The percentage of TB cases among the ‘foreign-born’ jumped from 29% in 1993 to 53% as of last year.


May I ask you a question Scotty?

If there was a policy where doctors were allowed to provide TB vaccines, no questions asked about immigration, would you support that policy?

It would do a lot to stop the spread of TB, and cost little, but you'd have to sacrifice some of your ideology to save lives.
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby Symmetry on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:44 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Seems like vaccination is the way forward.


yes, in the developing world and in countries with high rates of infection


What worries you about vaccinating against TB? You've never struck me as one of the anti-vaccination crowd before. If it's a problem in the US as big as the countries you identify as being in the developing world, correctly or incorrectly, and you support vaccination in those countries, I'm at a bit of a loss to understand your issue.


Medical consensus is that routine vaccination should not occur in the absence of risk. The rate of TB infection in the UK is nearly 400% that of the U.S. and the Netherlands.


Your previous chart says otherwise, so what worries you about the TB vaccine?
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:44 pm

Symmetry wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Medical science has not yet diagnosed "being Mexican" as a cause of tuberculosis. In fact, the rate of TB infection in Mexico is - while slightly worse than the U.S. - roughly on-par with white developing nations like the UK and Poland, as this chart shows:


See Friday’s (June 24, 2005) Investor’s Business Daily editorial...
In an article in the Journal of the American Medical Assn., Dr. Reuben Granich, a lead investigator for the Centers for Disase Control and Preention, reports the emergence in the U.S. of a particularly virulent, multi-drug -resistant form of tuberculosis known as MDR-TB.

“Evidence of it has surfaced in 38 of 61 California health jurisdictions, and it could ‘threaten the efficacy of TB control efforts,’ Granich said. The infected were said to be four times as likely to die from the disease and twice as likely to transmit the disease to others.

“Reluctant to label the infected as ‘illegal’ or even ‘undocumented’ aliens, the report notes that of the 407 known cases of MDR-TB, 84% were ‘foreign-born’ patients, mainly from Mexico and the Philippines who’d been in the U.S. less than five years. The percentage of TB cases among the ‘foreign-born’ jumped from 29% in 1993 to 53% as of last year.


May I ask you a question Scotty?

If there was a policy where doctors were allowed to provide TB vaccines, no questions asked about immigration, would you support that policy?

It would do a lot to stop the spread of TB, and cost little, but you'd have to sacrifice some of your ideology to save lives.


The immigration as I pointed out to only identifies the country of origin as one of the main sources. I don't understand your question though. It seems to imply that there is not policy that allows doctors to provide a TB vaccine. I don't know why a doctor would ask a patient seeking a TB vaccine if they are an immigrant or not, nor do I imagine I would have a say. If you want to reword that another way I will give it another shot, but for right now all I can say is that if you need a TB vaccine, then go and get one.
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby Symmetry on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:47 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Medical science has not yet diagnosed "being Mexican" as a cause of tuberculosis. In fact, the rate of TB infection in Mexico is - while slightly worse than the U.S. - roughly on-par with white developing nations like the UK and Poland, as this chart shows:


See Friday’s (June 24, 2005) Investor’s Business Daily editorial...
In an article in the Journal of the American Medical Assn., Dr. Reuben Granich, a lead investigator for the Centers for Disase Control and Preention, reports the emergence in the U.S. of a particularly virulent, multi-drug -resistant form of tuberculosis known as MDR-TB.

“Evidence of it has surfaced in 38 of 61 California health jurisdictions, and it could ‘threaten the efficacy of TB control efforts,’ Granich said. The infected were said to be four times as likely to die from the disease and twice as likely to transmit the disease to others.

“Reluctant to label the infected as ‘illegal’ or even ‘undocumented’ aliens, the report notes that of the 407 known cases of MDR-TB, 84% were ‘foreign-born’ patients, mainly from Mexico and the Philippines who’d been in the U.S. less than five years. The percentage of TB cases among the ‘foreign-born’ jumped from 29% in 1993 to 53% as of last year.


May I ask you a question Scotty?

If there was a policy where doctors were allowed to provide TB vaccines, no questions asked about immigration, would you support that policy?

It would do a lot to stop the spread of TB, and cost little, but you'd have to sacrifice some of your ideology to save lives.


The immigration as I pointed out to only identifies the country of origin as one of the main sources. I don't understand your question though. It seems to imply that there is not policy that allows doctors to provide a TB vaccine. I don't know why a doctor would ask a patient seeking a TB vaccine if they are an immigrant or not, nor do I imagine I would have a say. If you want to reword that another way I will give it another shot, but for right now all I can say is that if you need a TB vaccine, then go and get one.


Cool- I'm all for free vaccinations too. A sensible healthcare policy, regardless of political hand-wringing over immigration status.
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:47 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Medical science has not yet diagnosed "being Mexican" as a cause of tuberculosis. In fact, the rate of TB infection in Mexico is - while slightly worse than the U.S. - roughly on-par with white developing nations like the UK and Poland, as this chart shows:


Being Mexican is not the cause of tubersulosis, but Mexico is where the great majority of the TB cases in the USA are coming from.

See Friday’s


Last Friday's IBD?

Phatscotty wrote:(June 24, 2005) Investor’s Business Daily editorial...


oh, 7 years ago, Friday - I think I still have that issue by the bed-stand ... oh wait, no, Es is telling me she threw it out in 2010
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:52 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Medical science has not yet diagnosed "being Mexican" as a cause of tuberculosis. In fact, the rate of TB infection in Mexico is - while slightly worse than the U.S. - roughly on-par with white developing nations like the UK and Poland, as this chart shows:


Being Mexican is not the cause of tubersulosis, but Mexico is where the great majority of the TB cases in the USA are coming from.

See Friday’s


Last Friday's IBD?

Phatscotty wrote:(June 24, 2005) Investor’s Business Daily editorial...


oh, 7 years ago, Friday - I think I still have that issue by the bed-stand ... oh wait, no, Es is telling me she threw it out in 2010


I know right....

however, as you know we have even more illegal immigrants now, and less of them have insurance, and something like 40% of American's wealth has been wiped out over the last 10 years. What I'm getting at is I would bet the problem is even worse now than it was in 2005.
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:53 pm

Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Seems like vaccination is the way forward.


yes, in the developing world and in countries with high rates of infection


What worries you about vaccinating against TB? You've never struck me as one of the anti-vaccination crowd before. If it's a problem in the US as big as the countries you identify as being in the developing world, correctly or incorrectly, and you support vaccination in those countries, I'm at a bit of a loss to understand your issue.


Medical consensus is that routine vaccination should not occur in the absence of risk. The rate of TB infection in the UK is nearly 400% that of the U.S. and the Netherlands.


Your previous chart says otherwise, so what worries you about the TB vaccine?


No, it doesn't. If you have trouble identifying colors, here are more monochromatic tables:

UK (15 per 100K): https://extranet.who.int/sree/Reports?o ... ttype=html
US (4.8 per 100K): https://extranet.who.int/sree/Reports?op=Replet&name=%2FWHO_HQ_Reports%2FG2%2FPROD%2FEXT%2FTBCountryProfile&ISO2=US&outtype=html
Netherlands (9 per 100K): https://extranet.who.int/sree/Reports?o ... ttype=html

Do you believe Britons should receive routine malaria vaccinations? Why aren't they getting them now?

Listen, the UK is a little bit of a grimey country, so mass TB vaccination is warranted. It's nothing to be ashamed of, it's just a cultural thing; you see it manifested in other areas like dentistry and deoderant, too. Routine TB vaccination is a good idea and I'm all for it in places like the UK. I don't support blanket approaches that don't take into account local differences in health issues.
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:55 pm

Symmetry wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Medical science has not yet diagnosed "being Mexican" as a cause of tuberculosis. In fact, the rate of TB infection in Mexico is - while slightly worse than the U.S. - roughly on-par with white developing nations like the UK and Poland, as this chart shows:


See Friday’s (June 24, 2005) Investor’s Business Daily editorial...
In an article in the Journal of the American Medical Assn., Dr. Reuben Granich, a lead investigator for the Centers for Disase Control and Preention, reports the emergence in the U.S. of a particularly virulent, multi-drug -resistant form of tuberculosis known as MDR-TB.

“Evidence of it has surfaced in 38 of 61 California health jurisdictions, and it could ‘threaten the efficacy of TB control efforts,’ Granich said. The infected were said to be four times as likely to die from the disease and twice as likely to transmit the disease to others.

“Reluctant to label the infected as ‘illegal’ or even ‘undocumented’ aliens, the report notes that of the 407 known cases of MDR-TB, 84% were ‘foreign-born’ patients, mainly from Mexico and the Philippines who’d been in the U.S. less than five years. The percentage of TB cases among the ‘foreign-born’ jumped from 29% in 1993 to 53% as of last year.


May I ask you a question Scotty?

If there was a policy where doctors were allowed to provide TB vaccines, no questions asked about immigration, would you support that policy?

It would do a lot to stop the spread of TB, and cost little, but you'd have to sacrifice some of your ideology to save lives.


The immigration as I pointed out to only identifies the country of origin as one of the main sources. I don't understand your question though. It seems to imply that there is not policy that allows doctors to provide a TB vaccine. I don't know why a doctor would ask a patient seeking a TB vaccine if they are an immigrant or not, nor do I imagine I would have a say. If you want to reword that another way I will give it another shot, but for right now all I can say is that if you need a TB vaccine, then go and get one.


Cool- I'm all for free vaccinations too. A sensible healthcare policy, regardless of political hand-wringing over immigration status.


Thanks for noticing the part about "I don't understand your question, could you please re-ask it?"

Don't you think it would be a lot less intrusive, far cheaper, and more common sensicle to enforce our border laws instead, and screen people coming into our country who are at risk for Tuberculosis or any other diseases. Does it really make sense to stick a needle in every single other persons body, rather than try to deal with the actual threat at hand?

Just to be clear now, you say forcing injections into peoples bodies is okay, but asking people to piss in a cup is a crime?
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby Symmetry on Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:03 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Seems like vaccination is the way forward.


yes, in the developing world and in countries with high rates of infection


What worries you about vaccinating against TB? You've never struck me as one of the anti-vaccination crowd before. If it's a problem in the US as big as the countries you identify as being in the developing world, correctly or incorrectly, and you support vaccination in those countries, I'm at a bit of a loss to understand your issue.


Medical consensus is that routine vaccination should not occur in the absence of risk. The rate of TB infection in the UK is nearly 400% that of the U.S. and the Netherlands.


Your previous chart says otherwise, so what worries you about the TB vaccine?


saxitoxin wrote:This should only be used in developing countries like East Timor, Sri Lanka, Ukraine, UK, etc., where potential risks

outweigh possible harms.


saxitoxin wrote:In fact, the rate of TB infection in Mexico is - while slightly worse than the U.S. - roughly on-par with white developing nations like the UK and Poland


So again, if the US problem is only slightly worse than that of the UK, and you consider vaccination to be too risky for the US, I can only ask again, why?
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:06 pm

Symmetry wrote:So again, if the US problem is only slightly worse than that of the UK, and you consider vaccination to be too risky for the US, I can only ask again, why?


I think our problem here is a difficulty you appear to be having deciphering written English. It could be that you recently had a stroke and are not aware of it.

To recap:

    I did not say the US problem was "slightly worse than that of the UK" - I said the UK problem was nearly 400% worse than that of the U.S.

Feel free to re-read my posts if you need to - this isn't a race and there are no points for quantity. It's all about quality. Also, please answer my question: why doesn't the UK conduct mass malaria vaccinations?
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Re: Fucking Florida and Tuberculosis

Postby Army of GOD on Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:08 pm

for the longest time I couldn't remember if tuberculosis was the "rusty nail" disease or if that was tetanus.

well, after a quick google, I realize it was tetanus.


And that's my contribution to this thread.
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