Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:35 pm

tzor wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:The problem with polygamy is similar to why bastardy was a problem in the past... too many kids without firm support. Today, we have both men and women having many kids that they cannot support, though the numbers of children women can have are inherently limited by nature and those a man can have not.


I don't agree. Looking at the notion of marriage in a totally contract law point of view, a marriage is a corporation of two people with mutual liability. Both people in the corporation are liable for the rearing of the children (although there are still cultural biases that favor the mother over the father, this is the basis for child custody laws; loosely enforced though they may be). In the case of polygamy, then every member of the "corporation" is equally responsible for all children (those under the custody of the corporation until legal age is reached).

While the terminology does start to get strange (two polygamous groups can combine as a result of a "corporate merger") the whole thing can be controlled through corporate contract law.

In fact, you can expand the whole notion of marriage as corporation and get ... a publicly traded marriage? Shareholders to the family? Oh my.

I'm sensing a novel ... or perhaps a radio play.


Marriage is not a corporation.

but hey, since corporations are entities entitled to free speech, why not marriage.
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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby tzor on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:57 pm

stahrgazer wrote:As for "publicly traded marriages," they sort of went out with dowries. Shareholders to the family are expressed in Last Wills and Testaments and prenuptial contracts.


Actually publicly traded marriages have never existed. The notion is complex depending on whether you use common stock or preferred stock and whether or not the stock is voting or non voting.

The basic notion of publicly traded marriages is that the "corporation" raises capital by selling shares of stock. (Hey I like the Smiths, he's a doctor, I'll invest in their family.) The corporation, assuming that the family makes a profit, could even post a dividend (although many publicly traded stocks do not and do quite well).

Anyway, Player, I'm looking at the legal implications of marriage; where in effect the two become "one" from a financial point of view.

Note also in the other direction, the whole notion of "corporation" (as a means of raising capital) is turned upside down by the modern inverted kickstarter project where people pledge money for a potential startup knowing that until the minimum needed to create the project is collected from the whole, their investment is not in jeopardy. I've seen a number of interesting kickstarter projects succeed where a standard IPO offering would have fallen flat on its face.
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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby stahrgazer on Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:57 pm

tzor wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:As for "publicly traded marriages," they sort of went out with dowries. Shareholders to the family are expressed in Last Wills and Testaments and prenuptial contracts.


Actually publicly traded marriages have never existed. The notion is complex depending on whether you use common stock or preferred stock and whether or not the stock is voting or non voting.


Actually, in a way, they did.

It was quite common to have "bidding wars" to arrange marriages. A father would normally be considered to have a voting stock, but if he was titled, he often had upper noblemen who also got to "vote" and sometimes that vote went up to the King, the "CEO" as it were, whose vote often counted most. Sometimes that vote went by proxy to the nobleman down the line, and sometimes the stock wasn't traded (the woman wasn't permitted to marry but was kept unwed, with any monies from properties she would otherwise have brought to the man she was traded to, going to the person in charge of her.)
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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby tzor on Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:21 am

stahrgazer wrote:It was quite common to have "bidding wars" to arrange marriages. A father would normally be considered to have a voting stock, but if he was titled, he often had upper noblemen who also got to "vote" and sometimes that vote went up to the King, the "CEO" as it were, whose vote often counted most. Sometimes that vote went by proxy to the nobleman down the line, and sometimes the stock wasn't traded (the woman wasn't permitted to marry but was kept unwed, with any monies from properties she would otherwise have brought to the man she was traded to, going to the person in charge of her.)


Yes but marriage arrangement is the formation of the corporation. It doesn't involve the operation of the corporation once the corporation has already been formed. Once married the man was CEO and that was that. You didn't have others tell the CEO what he was to do with his wife; "a man's home is his castle." (Or his children for that matter.)
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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:49 pm

tzor wrote:
Anyway, Player, I'm looking at the legal implications of marriage; where in effect the two become "one" from a financial point of view.
Just look at any joint property state.

Its not entirely "one", because, say you still get to deduct 2 people and so forth, but it gets relatively close.

Or, for the social aspect, you could look to ... either Germany or the Netherlands where even kids or a sibling could effectively act as the "spouse" for many legal and medical decisions. (absent the sex part... let's get that clear, though I am not sure about adopting kids).
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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby stahrgazer on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:57 pm

tzor wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:It was quite common to have "bidding wars" to arrange marriages. A father would normally be considered to have a voting stock, but if he was titled, he often had upper noblemen who also got to "vote" and sometimes that vote went up to the King, the "CEO" as it were, whose vote often counted most. Sometimes that vote went by proxy to the nobleman down the line, and sometimes the stock wasn't traded (the woman wasn't permitted to marry but was kept unwed, with any monies from properties she would otherwise have brought to the man she was traded to, going to the person in charge of her.)


Yes but marriage arrangement is the formation of the corporation. It doesn't involve the operation of the corporation once the corporation has already been formed. Once married the man was CEO and that was that. You didn't have others tell the CEO what he was to do with his wife; "a man's home is his castle." (Or his children for that matter.)


Read up on the rights of medieval Kings and you might rethink your statements that others didn't get to tell the CEO what to do with his wife.
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