Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

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Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:35 am

I still don't understand the following with the issue on gay marriage:


(1) No religion has the legitimate right to define what a marriage is in the US. No single religion enjoys that jurisdiction. So, why do people continue to think that their own particular religion somehow has the right to define what a marriage is over an entire country? (that screams of theocracy to me).

    Okay, let's clear up a confusion. There's "religious marriage" and "legal marriage" (a.k.a. civil union). I'm talking about legal marriage and religious marriages, which differ across religions (which further compounds the problem of #1). A religion can define marriage and regulate marriage, but only within in its own jurisdictions (churches, but not across the entire country), hence a "religious marriage."


(2) Suppose the US legalizes gay marriage and requires people to recognize it as a legitimate marriage (in regard to contract laws, etc.). However, the US does not force religious organizations to oversee the marriage of gay couples because those organizations are free to deny their services (e.g. no gays in the Boy Scouts case). If (2) is true, then why would people oppose gay marriage?
Last edited by BigBallinStalin on Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby InkL0sed on Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:40 am

You don't understand. Gay marriage will ruin the sanctity of marriage and call God's fury upon our nation. We have a responsibility to crucify the gays, for the sake of our children. And puppies.
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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:46 am

InkL0sed wrote:You don't understand. Gay marriage will ruin the sanctity of marriage and call God's fury upon our nation. We have a responsibility to crucify the gays, for the sake of our children. And puppies.


I fully support your campaign to crucify puppies. Let God Help us, in our quest to remove this scourge from the face of the Earth.
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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby GreecePwns on Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:56 am

The answer to #2 will probably be the belief you bring up in #1. The answer to #1 will probably involve a belief that their particular morality is the one, only and correct morality.

Then, when asked about other sects within the same religion (in other words, differing interpretation of the same literature), the answer to #1 is probably repeated.

Then, when asked about the existence of a god, or more specifically, the existence of a god that is exactly as their interpretation of a particular piece of literature describes, the conversation goes in circles.

Then BBS breaks out the wheel and the discussion ends. I don't think I've seen anyone post a defense against that thing.
Last edited by GreecePwns on Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby Nola_Lifer on Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:59 am

This must be the thread to find all the bigots on the CC forum. Too bad we already know who they are. 8-[
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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby MegaProphet on Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:08 am

Some might argue that the US is essentially a Christian nation and its laws should uphold Christian beliefs. I think they are wrong.
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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:15 am

MegaProphet wrote:Some might argue that the US is essentially a Christian nation and its laws should uphold Christian beliefs. I think they are wrong.

Even if true, why does that mean homosexuality should be disallowed or gay marriage not allowed? Some Christian churches very much do acknowledge the right?
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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby MegaProphet on Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:22 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:
MegaProphet wrote:Some might argue that the US is essentially a Christian nation and its laws should uphold Christian beliefs. I think they are wrong.

Even if true, why does that mean homosexuality should be disallowed or gay marriage not allowed? Some Christian churches very much do acknowledge the right?

Yes, but it's quite easy for the opposition to say that those churches aren't 'true' Christian churches just like I would say that the Westboro Baptist church is a subversion of the Christian faith.
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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:24 am

MegaProphet wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
MegaProphet wrote:Some might argue that the US is essentially a Christian nation and its laws should uphold Christian beliefs. I think they are wrong.

Even if true, why does that mean homosexuality should be disallowed or gay marriage not allowed? Some Christian churches very much do acknowledge the right?

Yes, but it's quite easy for the opposition to say that those churches aren't 'true' Christian churches just like I would say that the Westboro Baptist church is a subversion of the Christian faith.


And there we have the crux... which church gets to decide.

At the time of our founding, for some time after, there were major wars waged between the Roman Catholics and Protestant churches. Greek Orthodoxy, Russian Orthodoxy... etc, etc, etc.

I know you said that you disagree that our nation was set up as a Christian nation, and I think you acknowledge the above is part of why that is very much the case.
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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby MegaProphet on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:06 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
MegaProphet wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
MegaProphet wrote:Some might argue that the US is essentially a Christian nation and its laws should uphold Christian beliefs. I think they are wrong.

Even if true, why does that mean homosexuality should be disallowed or gay marriage not allowed? Some Christian churches very much do acknowledge the right?

Yes, but it's quite easy for the opposition to say that those churches aren't 'true' Christian churches just like I would say that the Westboro Baptist church is a subversion of the Christian faith.


And there we have the crux... which church gets to decide.

At the time of our founding, for some time after, there were major wars waged between the Roman Catholics and Protestant churches. Greek Orthodoxy, Russian Orthodoxy... etc, etc, etc.

I know you said that you disagree that our nation was set up as a Christian nation, and I think you acknowledge the above is part of why that is very much the case.

Yes, I think that the country was founded more on freedom from religious prosecution than on any one religion
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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:13 pm

GreecePwns wrote:The answer to #2 will probably be the belief you bring up in #1. The answer to #1 will probably involve a belief that their particular morality is the one, only and correct morality.

Then, when asked about other sects within the same religion (in other words, differing interpretation of the same literature), the answer to #1 is probably repeated.

Then, when asked about the existence of a god, or more specifically, the existence of a god that is exactly as their interpretation of a particular piece of literature describes, the conversation goes in circles.

Then BBS breaks out the wheel and the discussion ends. I don't think I've seen anyone post a defense against that thing.


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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:29 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:At the time of our founding, for some time after, there were major wars waged between the Roman Catholics and Protestant churches. Greek Orthodoxy, Russian Orthodoxy... etc, etc, etc.


Ah yes, the epic battles between the Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox churches in colonial Delaware. Who can forget the particularly bloody campaign between the forces of Ben Franklonopolous and Tom Jeffersonovitch? Those were sad times, indeed. :(
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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby Army of GOD on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:41 pm

(3) Those who oppose gay marriage often cite the Bible as to why they are against it. Yet, they seemingly ignore other facets of the Bible (such as stoning a woman who has had sex before marriage) that are considered obsolete socially. Which parts of the Bible are to be taken literally and which aren't?
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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:52 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
MegaProphet wrote:Some might argue that the US is essentially a Christian nation and its laws should uphold Christian beliefs. I think they are wrong.

Even if true, why does that mean homosexuality should be disallowed or gay marriage not allowed? Some Christian churches very much do acknowledge the right?

They can't if they want to be consistent with their teachings. Even if you ignore the ten or more Old Testament injunctions, there's plenty in the New Testament. Paul's letters are quite unequivocal on the subject. He returns to the subject no less than three times: Romans 1:26, 1Corinthians 6:9, and 1Timothy 1:10. Those are just the undisputed passages, there's more that could be interpreted to touch on the subject also.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not a practising Christian although I respect the Christian background of our civilization. And personally, I don't give a rat's ass where other people stick their dicks, as long as it's not into me or any member of my immediate family. But I do expect people to show consistency with their professed beliefs and not cherry pick which part of their "faith" they're going to follow. If you want to be a Christiam and you accept the New Testament as truth then that includes Paul whether or not it's inconvenient for you.
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Re: Gay Marriage --- The Opposition, Please Clarify

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:53 pm

OMG? Another gay marriage thread? Are you serious? Because that's what this forum needed...right?
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