Conquer Club

Nowadays, the belief that change it's better brought up by democracy than by revolution travels as common sense.

Our current instances of the democratic idea however have it's many problems. Power groups, those holding most of the money, have their ways to influence public decisions as if they were the majority.


Revolutions, they say, don't come when people can't stand it anymore, but rather when people believe something better is due.


Would you be willing to join a potentially violent revolution movement, with the implication that you might die?

Its not that our ideas have changed so much as our reality has changed. We have what we have BECAUSE millions fought hard for it before us. However, we are no longer starving, and mostly no longer heavily abused by our employers in the way they were years past. Things are not wonderful, but they are not yet terrible.


Almost anyone, pushed far enough, would fight. The point is not to let things get that far along.

Simply asking about some unkown revolution says absolutely nothing.

And.. rather smacks of the republican game to push things, Machiavelli style just short of the point of revolt.

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Almost anyone, pushed far enough, would fight.

True.

But then what's far enough?

The recent banking crisis is a travesty that we have learned to live with. The avarice of few brought us the crisis we are living in today, and far from being punished, they were bailed out by unwilling common citizens' work and money. Isn't that far enough?

Until we have democracy with direct representation these events will continue to happen, f*ck the idea that we are not ready to make decisions. Let us try. With the current system we can say goodbye to the idea that soon will have decent public servants, greed has taken over and everyone is looking only for themselves.

Certainly in America and most developed countries people live so good that most wouldn't think about it. But yet we could live better.

Would you join a potentially violent revolution movement that promises a dramatic change in our current democracy, a better democracy?

PLAYER57832 wrote:Its not that our ideas have changed so much as our reality has changed. We have what we have BECAUSE millions fought hard for it before us. However, we are no longer starving, and mostly no longer heavily abused by our employers in the way they were years past. Things are not wonderful, but they are not yet terrible.


Almost anyone, pushed far enough, would fight. The point is not to let things get that far along.

Unemployment "insurance" extended for roughly 99 weeks comes to mind.

I wouldn't, because I'm now father, but if you have no job and children, then I think you're more able to offer up your life to make change. There are an awful lot of unemployed under 22-24 year olds around in Europe...

whatever

I suppose it's somewhat about weighing the odds versus rewards, if I was living in a country where I would likely be killed soon because of the current regime, then it's plausible.
Only with the means to reach a desirable end though, no marching out and getting martyred. I would greatly favor escape in that situation.

nietzsche wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Almost anyone, pushed far enough, would fight.

True.

But then what's far enough?

Read the Prince for a pretty worrisome perspective.. and one that a lot of our current leaders, particularly in business are embracing.

Depends on how old I am when I get the offer.

There's a discontinuity between the thread title, and the actual question in the poll.

The first asks

Would you be willing to give up your life for a revolution?

and the other asks

Would you be willing to join a potentially violent revolution movement?

These are not the same thing at all. There are many situations where I would be willing to do the latter but not the former. I can see myself as a member of a guerilla army, but I would be the smart guy building bombs in a secure location, not the sucker delivering them to the front.

Dukasaur wrote:There's a discontinuity between the thread title, and the actual question in the poll.

The first asks

Would you be willing to give up your life for a revolution?

and the other asks

Would you be willing to join a potentially violent revolution movement?

These are not the same thing at all. There are many situations where I would be willing to do the latter but not the former. I can see myself as a member of a guerilla army, but I would be the smart guy building bombs in a secure location, not the sucker delivering them to the front.

Is sort of an open question. I try to paint a scenario, but I would like people to have freedom in suggesting.

For instance, I wouldn't like to see a civil war in Mexico, yet the differences between the poor majority and the rich minority are disgusting. I'm not in a bad position myself but I have this sort of personality that makes me be very sympathetic of others' suffering. Yet, I would have to abandon everything that is comfortable to me, leave the country

A few years ago, the federal government implemented a welfare program called "Oportunidades", this is basically a way to keep the poor from making anything drastic. This programs gives money to people over 70, regardless of their insurance status, (less than 100 dls a month) and also gives similar amount of money to families who have kids going to school who can prove that don't have much. Every now and then, once a month, you see the most disgusting movement of people that go to collect that money, and I say disgusting because what they deserve is a job.

We, in Mexico, see the most aberrant news EVERY DAY, of how politicians get away with stealing money, of how the rich bribe politicians to have their way and more. Also, it's a shame that journalist and news anchors are totally biased against the left (not that I side with everything the left has to say) only because they are stupid, it's like they are holding a 1mm^3 of a pie the size of Texas and fear to lose it if the left wins the elections.

The state I live in has some of the most darkest politic scenes in the country, a year ago a jorunalist was killed, he was very critic of the big politicians (governors, groups of power led by ex-governors) and after that murder nobody has been really critic of those politicians. Justice will never arrive of course, the same group controls the 3 gubernamental powers.

I wonder who considers stuff like that "far enough"..

Age matters quite a lot here for me.

If I were offered a role in a violent revolution which goal was to change democracy for the better, at the age of 80, I'd consider it. Not much to lose and it would be for a good cause. My concerns would then not be risking my own life but the other lives that would be taken during the revolution. I wouldn't want to be a part of a bloody revolution that didn't change anything just kill people.

BigBallinStalin wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:Its not that our ideas have changed so much as our reality has changed. We have what we have BECAUSE millions fought hard for it before us. However, we are no longer starving, and mostly no longer heavily abused by our employers in the way they were years past. Things are not wonderful, but they are not yet terrible.


Almost anyone, pushed far enough, would fight. The point is not to let things get that far along.

Unemployment "insurance" extended for roughly 99 weeks comes to mind.

Did you miss the "insurance" part. This is a program that has been paid for. It was extended because our overall economy is so bad people cannot get decent jobs in many areas. It has literally kept many communities alive, helped not just he unemployed, but also the grocers, garbage collectors, gas stations and utility companies in their areas.

And... again, for all the hew and cry about this, its a measly drop in the bucket compared to the corporate bailouts we are ALL paying for right now.. programs that were NOT paid for, and that make little difference in the lives of average americans.

Only if it meant I'd be remembered. Think of how many poor bastards gave their lives for the American Revolution and no one remembers them. Do any of you fellow Americans know who Richard Montgomery or Hugh Mercer were?

And those guys were generals who did really important things.

pimpdave wrote:Only if it meant I'd be remembered. Think of how many poor bastards gave their lives for the American Revolution and no one remembers them. Do any of you fellow Americans know who Richard Montgomery or Hugh Mercer were?

And those guys were generals who did really important things.

I would not do it for fame

PLAYER57832 wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:Its not that our ideas have changed so much as our reality has changed. We have what we have BECAUSE millions fought hard for it before us. However, we are no longer starving, and mostly no longer heavily abused by our employers in the way they were years past. Things are not wonderful, but they are not yet terrible.


Almost anyone, pushed far enough, would fight. The point is not to let things get that far along.

Unemployment "insurance" extended for roughly 99 weeks comes to mind.

Did you miss the "insurance" part. This is a program that has been paid for. It was extended because our overall economy is so bad people cannot get decent jobs in many areas. It has literally kept many communities alive, helped not just he unemployed, but also the grocers, garbage collectors, gas stations and utility companies in their areas.

And... again, for all the hew and cry about this, its a measly drop in the bucket compared to the corporate bailouts we are ALL paying for right now.. programs that were NOT paid for, and that make little difference in the lives of average americans.

I'm talking about the US government simply taking money from one place and dumping it into unemployment compensation for the past 99 weeks or so.

Hence "insurance" is in quotation marks.