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So citizen's united did not change politics?

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Re: So citizen's united did not change politics?

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:06 am

saxitoxin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Since the OP seems to be so knowledgeable about Citizens United, perhaps she could answer the following:


(A) How did the Citizens' United case change the political arena?

(A1) As in, what exactly were the outcomes (intended and unintended)?

(A2) and how do these outcomes differ from the times before Citizens United?

Listen to or read the story I linked, then comment.


It's not a "story." Journalistic pieces use some combination of expert sources, vox pop, reporter observation and documentary analysis.

This, by contrast, is just an interview with an opinion page writer (Jane Mayer) who is the granddaughter of the founder of Leham Brothers - one of the Democrat Party's biggest corporate donors before it went bankrupt - saying "Obama is a principled man who only takes gajillions from Wal-Mart because he has to."

Player - I feel that it's very important you learn to apply critical thinking skills and not simply offer your head as an empty vase into which anyone can pour anything.

LOL-- Of course the stuff about Obama being apart from it all is mostly garbage. Not entirely, but its poli-speak. Still, her assessment of how this ruling has changed the political front and the impact it has had on voters and voting are worth considering.
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Re: So citizen's united did not change politics?

Postby thegreekdog on Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:52 am

Player, I think you're missing the point. The ruling did not substantially change anything really, because the problems we have today existed prior to the Supreme Court decision. We (BBS, Saxi, me, you) all acknowledge there is a problem with the political system in the United States. You appear to believe this is directly related to the Citizens United decision; this is probably because you've been analyzing the case in the context of current political discourse (i.e. the president (Obama) said the Supreme Court decision was sucky at one of his States of the Union). It's ridiculous political nonsense to use that decision as the fulcrum for arguments.
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Re: So citizen's united did not change politics?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:17 am

How much longer shall we drag player through the coals of reason?
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Re: So citizen's united did not change politics?

Postby Metsfanmax on Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:36 am

Necro because I just found an interesting legal article from last year.

abstract. The central flaw in the analysis of Citizens United by both the majority and the dissent was to treat it as a free speech case rather than a free press case. The right of a group to write and disseminate a documentary film criticizing a candidate for public office falls within the core of the freedom of the press. It is not constitutional for the government to punish the dissemination of such a documentary by a media corporation, and it therefore follows that it cannot be constitutional to punish its dissemination by a non-media corporation like Citizens United unless the freedom of the press is confined to the institutional media. Precedent, history, and pragmatics all refute the idea that freedom of the press is so confined.

The result in Citizens United was therefore almost uncontrovertibly correct. No one disputes that corporations, such as the New York Times Company, can editorialize during an election, and other groups performing the press function have the same right, even if they are not part of the traditional news media industry. A holding based on the Press Clause, though, would not have implied any change in constitutional doctrine about campaign contributions, which are not an exercise of the freedom of the press.


Also this older NYT piece that argues that Citizens' United didn't clearly have a substantial effect on political contributions up to 2012. Would be interested to know if anyone has seen an analysis of the 2014 election cycle.

Legally speaking, zillionaires were no less able to write fat checks four years ago than they are today. And while it is true that corporations can now give money for specific purposes that were prohibited before, it seems they aren’t, or at least not at a level that accounts for anything like the sudden influx of money into the system. According to a brief filed by Mitch McConnell, the Senate minority leader, and Floyd Abrams, the First Amendment lawyer, in a Montana case on which the Supreme Court ruled last month, not a single Fortune 100 company contributed to a candidate’s super PAC during this year’s Republican primaries. Of the $96 million or more raised by these super PACs, only about 13 percent came from privately held corporations, and less than 1 percent came from publicly traded corporations.

...

The level of outside money increased 164 percent from 2004 to 2008. Then it rose 135 percent from 2008 to 2012. In other words, while the sheer amount of dollars seems considerably more ominous after Citizens United, the percentage of change from one presidential election to the next has remained pretty consistent since the passage of McCain-Feingold. And this suggests that the rising amount of outside money was probably bound to reach ever more staggering levels with or without Citizens United. The unintended consequence of McCain-Feingold was to begin a gradual migration of political might from inside the party structure to outside it.
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