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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Lootifer on Sun May 05, 2013 8:21 pm

That christian scientist shit is well weird.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Sun May 05, 2013 9:20 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:So the conservatives here are supportive of the head of the House Science Committee being a "Christian Scientist"?

(Quotes added so dipshits don't misunderstand any more than they do naturally.)


Just as a a note, some self pro-claimed conservatives don't speak for all conservatives.


Believe me, I do realize that. Thankfully for conservatism, I might add.

patrickaa317 wrote:With your point of the above, you'd think at this point that someone might even end up appointing someone who evaded taxes to treasury secretary. 8-[


Hell yes, that's just as valid of a complaint. Someone else mentioned another good example.

But that doesn't change the fact that, to this point, I haven't seen any conservatives who seem to be unhappy about Lamar Smith being in that position.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Lootifer on Sun May 05, 2013 10:23 pm

I think there is a fair to say that most internal political appointments are another example failure of [the implementation of] democracy.

I myself get to enjoy an Energy Minister who had spent a grand total of zero days working in the energy industry prior to their appointment.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun May 05, 2013 10:24 pm

According to top Democratic advisers, the Republican Party is being taken over by Ted Cruz and Rand Paul



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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby patrickaa317 on Sun May 05, 2013 11:27 pm

Lootifer wrote:I think there is a fair to say that most internal political appointments are another example failure of [the implementation of] democracy.

I myself get to enjoy an Energy Minister who had spent a grand total of zero days working in the energy industry prior to their appointment.


That's comparable to having a president that spent 0 days in an executive position prior to starting his presidential campaign.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby patrickaa317 on Sun May 05, 2013 11:38 pm

Woodruff wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:With your point of the above, you'd think at this point that someone might even end up appointing someone who evaded taxes to treasury secretary. 8-[


Hell yes, that's just as valid of a complaint. Someone else mentioned another good example.

But that doesn't change the fact that, to this point, I haven't seen any conservatives who seem to be unhappy about Lamar Smith being in that position.


I'm unhappy with almost anything that is going on in DC, or even my state gov't now days, and frankly "the chairman of the committee on science, space, & technology" is so far down there that I wouldn't really care who they appointed. It's all irrelevant if we don't stop overspending on social programs, policing the world, leaving our oil in the ground while buying it from people who hate us, etc, etc. I'm personally about as concerned with the chairman for SST as I am the dog catcher of my local precinct.

1) What does the Committee do?

The Science, Space, and Technology Committee has jurisdiction over all non-defense federal scientific research and development (R&D). Federal agencies that fall under the Committee's jurisdiction (either completely or partially) include: National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), Department of Energy (DOE), Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), National Science Foundation (NSF), Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), U.S. Fire Administration, and U.S. Geological Survey.


I think 3-4 of the above agencies could easily be cut or consolidated together. If the chairman is willing to suggest that, he's got my support all day long. In the very likely event that he doesn't, then it's a moot point and I simply do not care either way.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon May 06, 2013 12:09 am

patrickaa317 wrote:
Lootifer wrote:I think there is a fair to say that most internal political appointments are another example failure of [the implementation of] democracy.

I myself get to enjoy an Energy Minister who had spent a grand total of zero days working in the energy industry prior to their appointment.


That's comparable to having a president that spent 0 days in an executive position prior to starting his presidential campaign.


One may say, "that's why the president has advisers on matters of war," but of course, that doesn't stop the president from selecting those whose perspectives he enjoys. Given his lack of knowledge on warfare, this may be lead himself to serious shortcomings--thus arises the problem of groupthink, which becomes acceptable given the rules through which the president selects his advisers and cabinet members--especially in exchange of favors.

    (E.g. Grouphthink: Lyndon Johnson + McNamara during the Vietnam war, and FDR + The New Dealers. Exchange of favors: Obama choosing Hillary as the sec. of state, in exchange for her partisan support of his presidential candidacy. She was unqualified, yet through political clout gets the job).

Oh, democracy. Let the uninformed believe they're in control and all will be well for those who understand that game of control.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon May 06, 2013 12:13 am

Woodruff wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:With your point of the above, you'd think at this point that someone might even end up appointing someone who evaded taxes to treasury secretary. 8-[


Hell yes, that's just as valid of a complaint. Someone else mentioned another good example.

But that doesn't change the fact that, to this point, I haven't seen any conservatives who seem to be unhappy about Lamar Smith being in that position.


Just wondering: if the claim that person Whoever actually evaded his taxes his true,

then was he punished? If not, why?

(It seems that politicians who can muster the clout can evade any serious consequences to their illegal activities. Furthermore, they can become ideolized by either the electorate or those who put them in power--e.g. the president, or Senate, or whichever political party that has the discretion).
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Lootifer on Mon May 06, 2013 12:16 am

patrickaa317 wrote:
Lootifer wrote:I think there is a fair to say that most internal political appointments are another example failure of [the implementation of] democracy.

I myself get to enjoy an Energy Minister who had spent a grand total of zero days working in the energy industry prior to their appointment.


That's comparable to having a president that spent 0 days in an executive position prior to starting his presidential campaign.

Thats apples and oranges.

One is a specialist decision making role where experience within the industry will assist in your uptake of information as it comes in.

The other is a figurehead leadership role. In which most countries is simply no more than a popularity contest.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon May 06, 2013 11:00 am

Lootifer wrote:That christian scientist shit is well weird.

They have a church near where I live. I like their bells that ring throughout the day. But that is as close as I have ventured.


--Andy
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Symmetry on Mon May 06, 2013 11:09 am

AndyDufresne wrote:
Lootifer wrote:That christian scientist shit is well weird.

They have a church near where I live. I like their bells that ring throughout the day. But that is as close as I have ventured.


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http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/flashbks/xsci/suffer.htm

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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Mon May 06, 2013 11:59 am

patrickaa317 wrote:
Lootifer wrote:I think there is a fair to say that most internal political appointments are another example failure of [the implementation of] democracy.

I myself get to enjoy an Energy Minister who had spent a grand total of zero days working in the energy industry prior to their appointment.


That's comparable to having a president that spent 0 days in an executive position prior to starting his presidential campaign.


No, I don't think it is. A President shouldn't be expected to have already been President in order to hold the position. An Energy Minister really should be expected to have spent some time doing SOMETHING involving the energy industry in order to hold the position.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Mon May 06, 2013 12:01 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:With your point of the above, you'd think at this point that someone might even end up appointing someone who evaded taxes to treasury secretary. 8-[


Hell yes, that's just as valid of a complaint. Someone else mentioned another good example.

But that doesn't change the fact that, to this point, I haven't seen any conservatives who seem to be unhappy about Lamar Smith being in that position.


I'm unhappy with almost anything that is going on in DC, or even my state gov't now days, and frankly "the chairman of the committee on science, space, & technology" is so far down there that I wouldn't really care who they appointed. It's all irrelevant if we don't stop overspending on social programs, policing the world, leaving our oil in the ground while buying it from people who hate us, etc, etc. I'm personally about as concerned with the chairman for SST as I am the dog catcher of my local precinct.

1) What does the Committee do?

The Science, Space, and Technology Committee has jurisdiction over all non-defense federal scientific research and development (R&D). Federal agencies that fall under the Committee's jurisdiction (either completely or partially) include: National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), Department of Energy (DOE), Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), National Science Foundation (NSF), Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), U.S. Fire Administration, and U.S. Geological Survey.


I think 3-4 of the above agencies could easily be cut or consolidated together. If the chairman is willing to suggest that, he's got my support all day long. In the very likely event that he doesn't, then it's a moot point and I simply do not care either way.


Honestly, I find your statements there appalling. That being said, you probably really would like Lamar Smith then.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby patrickaa317 on Mon May 06, 2013 8:33 pm

Woodruff wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
Lootifer wrote:I think there is a fair to say that most internal political appointments are another example failure of [the implementation of] democracy.

I myself get to enjoy an Energy Minister who had spent a grand total of zero days working in the energy industry prior to their appointment.


That's comparable to having a president that spent 0 days in an executive position prior to starting his presidential campaign.


No, I don't think it is. A President shouldn't be expected to have already been President in order to hold the position. An Energy Minister really should be expected to have spent some time doing SOMETHING involving the energy industry in order to hold the position.


Oh, I thought executive leadership could come from running a company, a state, a city or even a township. What was I thinking, apparently only presidency can give executive leadership.... :lol: Come on woody, you are better than that.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby patrickaa317 on Mon May 06, 2013 8:38 pm

Woodruff wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:With your point of the above, you'd think at this point that someone might even end up appointing someone who evaded taxes to treasury secretary. 8-[


Hell yes, that's just as valid of a complaint. Someone else mentioned another good example.

But that doesn't change the fact that, to this point, I haven't seen any conservatives who seem to be unhappy about Lamar Smith being in that position.


I'm unhappy with almost anything that is going on in DC, or even my state gov't now days, and frankly "the chairman of the committee on science, space, & technology" is so far down there that I wouldn't really care who they appointed. It's all irrelevant if we don't stop overspending on social programs, policing the world, leaving our oil in the ground while buying it from people who hate us, etc, etc. I'm personally about as concerned with the chairman for SST as I am the dog catcher of my local precinct.

1) What does the Committee do?

The Science, Space, and Technology Committee has jurisdiction over all non-defense federal scientific research and development (R&D). Federal agencies that fall under the Committee's jurisdiction (either completely or partially) include: National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), Department of Energy (DOE), Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), National Science Foundation (NSF), Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), U.S. Fire Administration, and U.S. Geological Survey.


I think 3-4 of the above agencies could easily be cut or consolidated together. If the chairman is willing to suggest that, he's got my support all day long. In the very likely event that he doesn't, then it's a moot point and I simply do not care either way.


Honestly, I find your statements there appalling. That being said, you probably really would like Lamar Smith then.


Out of all the back door deals, politics, shady deals, down right corruption in Washington, you are that worried about the chairman of a committee that overseas a few important agencies and a bunch more that could be cut or consolidated.

The country is going to be broke in no time and we are becoming an ever increasing police state but you can't criticize that stuff too much because it is brought to you by the party you are closer aligned with.

Do you find those statements appalling as well?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby patrickaa317 on Mon May 06, 2013 8:47 pm

Lootifer wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
Lootifer wrote:I think there is a fair to say that most internal political appointments are another example failure of [the implementation of] democracy.

I myself get to enjoy an Energy Minister who had spent a grand total of zero days working in the energy industry prior to their appointment.


That's comparable to having a president that spent 0 days in an executive position prior to starting his presidential campaign.

Thats apples and oranges.

One is a specialist decision making role where experience within the industry will assist in your uptake of information as it comes in.

The other is a figurehead leadership role. In which most countries is simply no more than a popularity contest.


It's more than a figurehead leadership role. Cabinet appointments, being a commander in chief, signing law, exercising executive powers, etc. If it's just a popularity contest, why were so many people so afraid of Romney beating Obama; and others so afraid of Obama beating Romney? On that note, if I looked back in some threads in November, were you one of the people that were saying Obama & Romney were essentially going to be the same? If so, I'll appreciate the consistency but would still disagree.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby tzor on Mon May 06, 2013 9:29 pm

Woodruff wrote:So the conservatives here are supportive of the head of the House Science Committee being a "Christian Scientist"?


Well, for me, it's one of those "scratch your head in wonder" moments. While I am generally amused, I'm not aware of any specific hatred towards the scientific method.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Wed May 08, 2013 6:18 pm

tzor wrote:
Woodruff wrote:So the conservatives here are supportive of the head of the House Science Committee being a "Christian Scientist"?


Well, for me, it's one of those "scratch your head in wonder" moments. While I am generally amused, I'm not aware of any specific hatred towards the scientific method.


You mean other than being specifically against the scientific method? Because that is essentially a tenet of the philosophy.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Wed May 08, 2013 6:19 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
Lootifer wrote:I think there is a fair to say that most internal political appointments are another example failure of [the implementation of] democracy.

I myself get to enjoy an Energy Minister who had spent a grand total of zero days working in the energy industry prior to their appointment.


That's comparable to having a president that spent 0 days in an executive position prior to starting his presidential campaign.


No, I don't think it is. A President shouldn't be expected to have already been President in order to hold the position. An Energy Minister really should be expected to have spent some time doing SOMETHING involving the energy industry in order to hold the position.


Oh, I thought executive leadership could come from running a company, a state, a city or even a township. What was I thinking, apparently only presidency can give executive leadership.... :lol: Come on woody, you are better than that.


Ok, you're right on that...I wasn't thinking creatively enough. But I'll grant that you're absolutely right. My only dissuation from that would be that being a member of Congress (because of the knowledge of running the government in that aspect) would also be sufficient.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Wed May 08, 2013 6:24 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:With your point of the above, you'd think at this point that someone might even end up appointing someone who evaded taxes to treasury secretary. 8-[


Hell yes, that's just as valid of a complaint. Someone else mentioned another good example.

But that doesn't change the fact that, to this point, I haven't seen any conservatives who seem to be unhappy about Lamar Smith being in that position.


I'm unhappy with almost anything that is going on in DC, or even my state gov't now days, and frankly "the chairman of the committee on science, space, & technology" is so far down there that I wouldn't really care who they appointed. It's all irrelevant if we don't stop overspending on social programs, policing the world, leaving our oil in the ground while buying it from people who hate us, etc, etc. I'm personally about as concerned with the chairman for SST as I am the dog catcher of my local precinct.

1) What does the Committee do?

The Science, Space, and Technology Committee has jurisdiction over all non-defense federal scientific research and development (R&D). Federal agencies that fall under the Committee's jurisdiction (either completely or partially) include: National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), Department of Energy (DOE), Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), National Science Foundation (NSF), Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), U.S. Fire Administration, and U.S. Geological Survey.


I think 3-4 of the above agencies could easily be cut or consolidated together. If the chairman is willing to suggest that, he's got my support all day long. In the very likely event that he doesn't, then it's a moot point and I simply do not care either way.


Honestly, I find your statements there appalling. That being said, you probably really would like Lamar Smith then.


Out of all the back door deals, politics, shady deals, down right corruption in Washington, you are that worried about the chairman of a committee that overseas a few important agencies and a bunch more that could be cut or consolidated.

The country is going to be broke in no time and we are becoming an ever increasing police state but you can't criticize that stuff too much because it is brought to you by the party you are closer aligned with.

Do you find those statements appalling as well?


Of course I do. But in the idea of "closer aligned with the Democratic Party" (which I presume is your implication here), I would have to suggest to you a couple of things:

1. I am only very marginally more closely aligned with the Democratic Party, to the point that I really do dislike them equally with the Republican Party as a group. I do dislike certain individual Republicans more than probably any certain individual Democrats, but that's pretty much the extent of any "alignment" I have with them.

2. I do not at all agree that the Democratic Party "has brought to us" an ever increasing police state. It's simply the same train on the same track that hasn't been derailed from where it's been going since at least 9/11 (which is where I really became highly concerned). Certainly, the Democratic Party hasn't done anything to slow down that train, no argument. But they've hardly been "the ones bringing it to us".

And yes, I am EXCEPTIONALLY concerned about the House Science Committee (among some others, and certainly the equals on the Senatorial side), because THE FOUNDATION OF EDUCATION is of primary importance to the future of this nation. And having someone in charge of the where the money for funding science goes is a critical position, in my opinion. Absolutely critical. He's already made recommendations that go against the whole idea of the scientific process.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby tzor on Wed May 08, 2013 6:49 pm

Woodruff wrote:You mean other than being specifically against the scientific method? Because that is essentially a tenet of the philosophy.


Can you give me a link that might suggest that? Because other than facts about how totally weird they are, I can't see anything specifically opposing the scientific method. Not using it isn't the same as being against it.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby tzor on Wed May 08, 2013 6:55 pm

Woodruff wrote:I do not at all agree that the Democratic Party "has brought to us" an ever increasing police state.


You would have to really define "police" exceptionally generically in order to suggest that. The Democratic Party does bring us more and more regulations. They in turn keep adding more and more people to "enforce" those regulations. Normally, we don't consider the enforcers of EPA, OSHA, FDA, etc. "police" because these people just sue in civil court. But the cumulative effect of massive regulations can approach a "police state" when strictly but selectively enforced.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby patrickaa317 on Wed May 08, 2013 8:22 pm

Woodruff wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
Lootifer wrote:I think there is a fair to say that most internal political appointments are another example failure of [the implementation of] democracy.

I myself get to enjoy an Energy Minister who had spent a grand total of zero days working in the energy industry prior to their appointment.


That's comparable to having a president that spent 0 days in an executive position prior to starting his presidential campaign.


No, I don't think it is. A President shouldn't be expected to have already been President in order to hold the position. An Energy Minister really should be expected to have spent some time doing SOMETHING involving the energy industry in order to hold the position.


Oh, I thought executive leadership could come from running a company, a state, a city or even a township. What was I thinking, apparently only presidency can give executive leadership.... :lol: Come on woody, you are better than that.


Ok, you're right on that...I wasn't thinking creatively enough. But I'll grant that you're absolutely right. My only dissuation from that would be that being a member of Congress (because of the knowledge of running the government in that aspect) would also be sufficient.


Depends on that role in Congress. If they were the head of committees, were the speaker, a maj/min whip, party leader, etc, then I would agree with you. But just being part of the legislative branch does not inherently provide executive leadership. If that's the case, then anyone who builds widgets inside a company could also claim knowledge on how to run a company.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Wed May 08, 2013 8:36 pm

tzor wrote:
Woodruff wrote:You mean other than being specifically against the scientific method? Because that is essentially a tenet of the philosophy.


Can you give me a link that might suggest that? Because other than facts about how totally weird they are, I can't see anything specifically opposing the scientific method. Not using it isn't the same as being against it.


Is there an effective difference between being against the scientific method and actively promoting ideas and beliefs that run completely counter to the use of the scientific method?

I mean, when your belief system includes things such as "matter is not real" and "illness is in the mind and not the body", that really is counter to anything that could be considered as following the scientific method. By actively promoting these ideas, they are acting against the promotion of the scientific method.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Wed May 08, 2013 8:39 pm

tzor wrote:
Woodruff wrote:I do not at all agree that the Democratic Party "has brought to us" an ever increasing police state.


You would have to really define "police" exceptionally generically in order to suggest that. The Democratic Party does bring us more and more regulations. They in turn keep adding more and more people to "enforce" those regulations. Normally, we don't consider the enforcers of EPA, OSHA, FDA, etc. "police" because these people just sue in civil court. But the cumulative effect of massive regulations can approach a "police state" when strictly but selectively enforced.


I'm curious as to how you see that as different than the regulations (and laws) that have come about under the Republican Party.

As I said before, it's the same train. They're even the same conductors, frankly. There's been no real change of course in this regard from Bush to Obama. That does not at all excuse Obama (I frankly hate how he has "stayed the course"), but it certainly doesn't absolve Bush either.
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