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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Night Strike on Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:26 am

Evil Semp wrote:If someone can't find a job and runs out of benefits what are they supposed to do? Tough luck? Go hungry? If you don't care about them, and that is the impression I get from your posts why should they care? Let them steal to get money? I am not a proponent of the government just throwing money at people for nothing, but saying tough luck to those who are having a tough time just doesn't sound right to me.

How do we wean people off government dependency? Why aren't you a proponent of people making a living wage?


Because it's not the government's job to define how much a person should be paid. It's the business and the employee who decide how much a worker should get paid. If a person doesn't do work worth $20 per hour, why should they be paid that much? The government can't define what a "living wage" is because people are able to live on completely different wages. Heck, the government, including player, believes things like big screen tv, high speed internet, and smartphone are basic necessities that should be paid for by the government if a person doesn't make enough money to pay for one themselves.

As for helping those in need, that's what private charities are for. When you tax people less, they'll have more money available to donate to private charities and to help other individuals. We don't need a faceless bureaucracy adding money to a debit card: we need charities that will directly help people and get them up on their feet to be self-sustaining. The government can't do that.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby patches70 on Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:43 pm

I had dinner the other night with a really liberal couple from work. They droned on and on about how great Obama and Democrats are, much to my complete boredom. Afterward their 12 year old daughter was dancing around and saying-
"I can't wait until I grow up and become President. Then I'll be able to feed and clothe all the poor people!"

Her parents were tickled pink and quite proud of their little angel. I couldn't take it anymore so I decided to teach the kid and the parents a little lesson. I said to the girl-

"Hold on now, little one. You don't need to wait until you're President to do those things. I tell you what, tomorrow, you come over to my house. Mow my grass, water the hedges, weed the flower beds and wash my car. I'll give you $50 then drive you down to the grocery store where all the homeless people hang out. Then you can give your $50 to one of them and he can get food and clothes."

The kid thinks for a minute and says-
"That's stupid. Why don't you just get one of them to do all that stuff?"

I replied-
"Welcome to the Republican party."
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:19 pm

hahah!
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:53 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:Also, just lolololol @ this Tagg Romney thing. I can't believe he said he wanted to punch Obama.


Uh...what?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:53 pm

Night Strike wrote:


That's what happens when you live off the government.


Uh...what?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:54 pm

Evil Semp wrote:
Night Strike wrote:


That's what happens when you live off the government.


I get the feeling that you think anyone who takes government assistance is "living off the government." I will agree that there are people who will gladly sit at home and be happy taking what the government will give them. However I feel many who are getting government assistance would love to be self sufficient. So I ask this question. How do you propose getting the people off government assistance? I am not asking about the one who are happy taking assistance just the ones who want to be self sufficient.


They should just get a job, you hippie marxist communist!
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:56 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Evil Semp wrote:
Night Strike wrote:You get people off government assistance by getting the government out of the way of the private sector which creates the jobs necessary for self-sufficiency.


A lot of people who are on assistance now or on it because the private sector cut jobs. But I do notice one change in your position high lighted above. When have you become an advocate for jobs necessary for self-sufficiency?

So in the time it takes for government to move out of the way and the private sector to create those jobs of self-sufficiency what are the jobless supposed?


I'm not a proponent of a "living wage" that Player is always crying for. People should get paid based on the talents they provide for the company. If people don't provide a talent to the company worth living off a single paycheck, then they're going to have to find a second job or a new job. It's not the company's job to pay them more out of pity.

And we have to wean people off government dependency. We have to cut back the 99 weeks of unemployment paychecks and start cutting back the amount of welfare distributed to people who are able to work yet aren't.


So companies shouldn't pay them a living wage, but the government shouldn't assist them to allow them to survive. Just...f*ck em, right?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:18 pm

...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Night Strike on Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:24 pm

Woodruff wrote:So companies shouldn't pay them a living wage, but the government shouldn't assist them to allow them to survive. Just...f*ck em, right?


No, that's not what I said. If a person does not make enough money for the life they want to live, then they need to find a second job or find a higher paying job. It's the individual's responsibility, not the government's or a business's.

patches70 wrote:I had dinner the other night with a really liberal couple from work. They droned on and on about how great Obama and Democrats are, much to my complete boredom. Afterward their 12 year old daughter was dancing around and saying-
"I can't wait until I grow up and become President. Then I'll be able to feed and clothe all the poor people!"

Her parents were tickled pink and quite proud of their little angel. I couldn't take it anymore so I decided to teach the kid and the parents a little lesson. I said to the girl-

"Hold on now, little one. You don't need to wait until you're President to do those things. I tell you what, tomorrow, you come over to my house. Mow my grass, water the hedges, weed the flower beds and wash my car. I'll give you $50 then drive you down to the grocery store where all the homeless people hang out. Then you can give your $50 to one of them and he can get food and clothes."

The kid thinks for a minute and says-
"That's stupid. Why don't you just get one of them to do all that stuff?"

I replied-
"Welcome to the Republican party."


That's hilarious! What did her parents say?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Woodruff on Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:27 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:So companies shouldn't pay them a living wage, but the government shouldn't assist them to allow them to survive. Just...f*ck em, right?


No, that's not what I said. If a person does not make enough money for the life they want to live, then they need to find a second job or find a higher paying job. It's the individual's responsibility, not the government's or a business's.


Because jobs are a dime a dozen, right? Just...f*ck em, right? Sorry Night Strike, but that's what you said...I just didn't use words you like to say the same thing.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Night Strike on Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:34 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:So companies shouldn't pay them a living wage, but the government shouldn't assist them to allow them to survive. Just...f*ck em, right?


No, that's not what I said. If a person does not make enough money for the life they want to live, then they need to find a second job or find a higher paying job. It's the individual's responsibility, not the government's or a business's.


Because jobs are a dime a dozen, right? Just...f*ck em, right? Sorry Night Strike, but that's what you said...I just didn't use words you like to say the same thing.


So the rest of us have to do our work to pay our own bills AND have the government force us to pay the bills of those who don't work? Where's the fairness in that? If people are not making enough money for the life they live, then it's their responsibility to improve their situation. They don't get to use force to take money away from others. Furthermore, there would be more jobs available if the government would stop spending our way to oblivion and adding thousands of pages of new taxes and regulations. Regulations and high taxes hurt the creation and expansion of small businesses, which is what has nearly killed our economy. If you want there to be more jobs available, you lessen the size of the government, not increase it. There has been a 32% increase in welfare since Obama has become president, which is completely unsustainable for a society that is supposed to be based on freedom, not enslavement to the government.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Evil Semp on Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:41 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Evil Semp wrote:If someone can't find a job and runs out of benefits what are they supposed to do? Tough luck? Go hungry? If you don't care about them, and that is the impression I get from your posts why should they care? Let them steal to get money? I am not a proponent of the government just throwing money at people for nothing, but saying tough luck to those who are having a tough time just doesn't sound right to me.

How do we wean people off government dependency? Why aren't you a proponent of people making a living wage?


I am sure glad my monitor is a scratch and sniff model because that is the biggest load of crap.

Night Strike wrote:Because it's not the government's job to define how much a person should be paid. It's the business and the employee who decide how much a worker should get paid.


When I was looking for a job I took the first offer that came my way. Was I under paid? Yes I was but I wanted a pay check not a welfare check.

Night Strike wrote:If a person doesn't do work worth $20 per hour, why should they be paid that much?


I don't know if you are involved in the hiring process but I don't see any applications asking for $20 and hour. Or are you saying $20 is a self sufficient wage?

Night Strike wrote:The government can't define what a "living wage" is because people are able to live on completely different wages.


I suppose we should just let business define what a "living wage" is.

Night Strike wrote:Heck, the government, including player, believes things like big screen tv, high speed internet, and smartphone are basic necessities that should be paid for by the government if a person doesn't make enough money to pay for one themselves.


A big screen TV? Really NS a little over the top don't you think?

Night Strike wrote:As for helping those in need, that's what private charities are for. When you tax people less, they'll have more money available to donate to private charities and to help other individuals.


If business was willing to pay a self sufficient wage than more people would be paying taxes.

Night Strike wrote:We don't need a faceless bureaucracy adding money to a debit card: we need charities that will directly help people and get them up on their feet to be self-sustaining. The government can't do that.


That is the job of business.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby patches70 on Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:56 pm

Semp should start a business, if he believes the job of a business is help people. I mean, if Semp doesn't want to open a business then that must mean he doesn't want to help people.


Of course, others, like me, understand that the real purpose of a business is to make a profit by providing goods or services that people need and/or desire. I guess in a way business' job is to help people, but without the profit, there won't be a business for very long.
Something that would be nice if Semp realized, thus the real reason I'd like to see him open a business. I'd like to see if he'd actually apply what he believes the purpose for business is (and thereby go completely bankrupt and end up in the bread line) or would he succumb to reality and operate it for profit.

After he gets his profit he could always donate as much as he wanted, he wouldn't have to keep the profit for himself, for things like a nicer house, send his kids to better schools or for the greater benefit for his own family, but instead, be selfless and give it all away to those in need.

I wonder, Semp, what business would you start and what wages could you pay for that business? You know, an balance everything else out so you don't end up bankrupt.


I truly wish people would get a better grasp of economic realities. We wouldn't be in the mess we are if people understood better. But, I can dream I suppose.....

I think you'd be better off starting a church or a charity, Semp, because helping people is the purpose of a church or charity, at least in the ways you are applying to business.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby patrickaa317 on Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:57 pm

Image

Evil Semp wrote:
Night Strike wrote:Heck, the government, including player, believes things like big screen tv, high speed internet, and smartphone are basic necessities that should be paid for by the government if a person doesn't make enough money to pay for one themselves.


A big screen TV? Really NS a little over the top don't you think?



Obviously some of the items in the chart would be considered necessities by the vast majority of people but there are a lot of things that definitely aren't necessities.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Juan_Bottom on Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:58 pm

Woodruff wrote:Uh...what?

The day after the debate Tag went on a radio talk show and the host asked him how he felt about Obama calling his dad a liar during the debate (which he didn't do directly) and Tag said that he felt like he wanted to go up there and take a swing at the president. To liberals it's funny because Romney had been indirectly blaming parents for violent children. Plus it further adds weight to the popular view that the Romney's are bullys. Y'know? Mitt Romney held a classmate down and shaved his head, and now his kid wants to punch the POTUS in the mouth.


Night Strike wrote:Because it's not the government's job to define how much a person should be paid.

Yes it is. Why wouldn't it be?

Night Strike wrote:As for helping those in need, that's what private charities are for. When you tax people less, they'll have more money available to donate to private charities and to help other individuals. We don't need a faceless bureaucracy adding money to a debit card: we need charities that will directly help people and get them up on their feet to be self-sustaining. The government can't do that.

Never in the history of the entire world have "charities" been able to handle this responsibility. Never.


Irrelevant though. As a country we have already decided that we want to be a Social Democracy. The discussion has ended and people have been securing the same rights that the rich and powerful have always reserved for themselves. And yes, we're working on forcing equality onto our upper classes. Unfortunately the second labor movement seems defeated in this country, but it's still happening around the world. But never, never in world history has any people willingly given up the rights that they have earned and deserved without being conquered or under threat of violence. The only way NS' utopia will happen is at the point of a bayonet.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Juan_Bottom on Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:59 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:Obviously some of the items in the chart would be considered necessities by the vast majority of people but there are a lot of things that definitely aren't necessities.


Because you don't need a DVD player to survive. But the upper classes want you to have one so they will survive. People who have nothing spend their time plotting.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby patrickaa317 on Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:05 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:Obviously some of the items in the chart would be considered necessities by the vast majority of people but there are a lot of things that definitely aren't necessities.


Because you don't need a DVD player to survive. But the upper classes want you to have one so they will survive. People who have nothing spend their time plotting.


Wow, so the poor people are victims of the rich people forcing DVD players down their throat?
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby john9blue on Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:16 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:Image


:shock: i only had half of the top 10 in my apartment last year...
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Juan_Bottom on Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:17 pm

No.
You'd need to understand American Labor History in order to understand what I just said. I only just found out that many states don't even teach it. . . It is exactly the same as State's teaching that the Civil War was fought over state's rights. They have an agenda and they want to bury truths. But in states like Pennsylvania, Illinois, Wisconsin, Washington, and others, we lost citizens who were shot by police or soldiers just for walking off the job. We remember. We remember the Roosevelts, the Swedes, Mary Harris, the agitators, and all the others.
I was throwing out a slightly controversial statement to see who knew what I'm actually talking about. People love Labor Day because it's a day off of work, but they don't want to acknowledge that it's just another form of Veteran's Day. And like our armies, our workers are still fighting for our freedom all over the world. To say that one person was born in a poor community and don't deserve the same opportunities that you do is the opposite of charity, and is solid proof that the worker's revolution was clipped by our government. Saxi will tell you the same. If the masses don't have access to society's basic entertainment or amenities, they will revolt.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby patrickaa317 on Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:23 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:No.
You'd need to understand American Labor History in order to understand what I just said. I only just found out that many states don't even teach it. . . It is exactly the same as State's teaching that the Civil War was fought over state's rights. They have an agenda and they want to bury truths. But in states like Pennsylvania, Illinois, Wisconsin, Washington, and others, we lost citizens who were shot by police or soldiers just for walking off the job. We remember. We remember the Roosevelts, the Swedes, Mary Harris, the agitators, and all the others.
I was throwing out a slightly controversial statement to see who knew what I'm actually talking about. People love Labor Day because it's a day off of work, but they don't want to acknowledge that it's just another form of Veteran's Day. And like our armies, our workers are still fighting for our freedom all over the world. To say that one person was born in a poor community and don't deserve the same opportunities that you do is the opposite of charity, and is solid proof that the worker's revolution was clipped by our government. Saxi will tell you the same. If the masses don't have access to society's basic entertainment or amenities, they will revolt.


I'll admit, I am not an expert on American Labor History. Can you post some good links where I can read up on it more in hopes of understanding better? Don't want to get lost in all the crap returned by a google search.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Juan_Bottom on Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:33 am

patrickaa317 wrote:I'll admit, I am not an expert on American Labor History. Can you post some good links where I can read up on it more in hopes of understanding better? Don't want to get lost in all the crap returned by a google search.


Hell all if I know... there's a tumblr I think is neat: http://todayinlaborhistory.tumblr.com/

And I started a thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=177627

But I still read books. All the books.

Edit: Oh yeah, and you can listen to Utah Philips:


He sangs songs about labor and junk.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Juan_Bottom on Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:39 am

GOP Rep. Tells Employers To Intimidate Their Workers Into Voting For Romney

Congressman says abortions never necessary to save life of mother


Good old Joe Walsh is finally making a name for himself outside of Illinois. I personally think he's a huge jerk because of some reckless things he's said about Tammy Duckworth. You gotta be a real classy guy to insult a veteran in a wheelchair. Anyway, because of that, now he's a Republican target too.

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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:17 am

patrickaa317 wrote:Image

Evil Semp wrote:
Night Strike wrote:Heck, the government, including player, believes things like big screen tv, high speed internet, and smartphone are basic necessities that should be paid for by the government if a person doesn't make enough money to pay for one themselves.


A big screen TV? Really NS a little over the top don't you think?



Obviously some of the items in the chart would be considered necessities by the vast majority of people but there are a lot of things that definitely aren't necessities.


Don't show them that. Let them live their fantasy version of the "poor." They don't need relevant benchmarks to the past or to developing countries because the standard for "poor" will always shift in order to justify their value judgments on taxing others to pay for goods and services which they perceive is best for the poor.

Never mind the unintended consequences, the inefficiency of bureaucracy, or the viable alternatives like markets. Stop all that thinking. Shut it down, and have faith in the State.

Essentially, this is their position.
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:18 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:I'll admit, I am not an expert on American Labor History. Can you post some good links where I can read up on it more in hopes of understanding better? Don't want to get lost in all the crap returned by a google search.


Hell all if I know... there's a tumblr I think is neat: http://todayinlaborhistory.tumblr.com/

And I started a thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=177627

But I still read books. All the books.

Edit: Oh yeah, and you can listen to Utah Philips:


He sangs songs about labor and junk.


Fictional books like Upton Sinclair's The Jungle.


Don't worry, gang. JB has got the fictional facts!
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Re: What is the Republican Party?

Postby Night Strike on Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:54 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Uh...what?

The day after the debate Tag went on a radio talk show and the host asked him how he felt about Obama calling his dad a liar during the debate (which he didn't do directly) and Tag said that he felt like he wanted to go up there and take a swing at the president. To liberals it's funny because Romney had been indirectly blaming parents for violent children. Plus it further adds weight to the popular view that the Romney's are bullys. Y'know? Mitt Romney held a classmate down and shaved his head, and now his kid wants to punch the POTUS in the mouth.

That story has never been proven true; even the family of the kid knew nothing about it. Furthermore, it's always said that campaigns are much harder on the family of a candidate than the candidate themselves, so it's a natural reaction for a family member to have.


Juan_Bottom wrote:
Night Strike wrote:Because it's not the government's job to define how much a person should be paid.

Yes it is. Why wouldn't it be?

Night Strike wrote:As for helping those in need, that's what private charities are for. When you tax people less, they'll have more money available to donate to private charities and to help other individuals. We don't need a faceless bureaucracy adding money to a debit card: we need charities that will directly help people and get them up on their feet to be self-sustaining. The government can't do that.

Never in the history of the entire world have "charities" been able to handle this responsibility. Never.

Because the government takes too much money away from the people. How much has poverty decreased since LBJ started his War on Poverty? Virtually none. Sounds like the government can't do it, so why are we spending $1 trillion a year on it?

Juan_Bottom wrote:Irrelevant though. As a country we have already decided that we want to be a Social Democracy. The discussion has ended and people have been securing the same rights that the rich and powerful have always reserved for themselves. And yes, we're working on forcing equality onto our upper classes. Unfortunately the second labor movement seems defeated in this country, but it's still happening around the world. But never, never in world history has any people willingly given up the rights that they have earned and deserved without being conquered or under threat of violence. The only way NS' utopia will happen is at the point of a bayonet.

No, we don't want to be a Social Democracy. We want to be a Free Market Republic. The government doesn't have endless amounts of money for us to be a Social Democracy.
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