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Romney was Better than Obama

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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby thegreekdog on Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:09 am

tzor wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:I feel like I've asked this question before, but...

COULD YOU PLEASE NAME FIVE REASONS WHY ROMNEY IS DIFFERENT THAN OBAMA


Sure, this is easy ...too easy ,,,

  1. Romney has gotten legislation passed when his party was in the minoriry.
  2. Romney has balanced the budgets of several companies, the Olympics, and a state.
  3. Romney actually believes in this document called the constitution as being a good thing that must be followed.
  4. Romney has boys while Obama has girls
  5. Romney is a Mormon


All good things. But I don't think Romney believes in the Constitution being good and I don't think Romney is going to have success balancing the budget.

CNN, I believe, commented on the foreign policy debate saying that the candidates didn't differ on anything. I think that right there is a problem. Further, if you look at the domestic policies, they aren't very different. Both candidates want to continue crony capitalism, they just have different companies they want to support.

Apparently I cannot emphasize this enough: domestically and internationally, the two candidates are not opposed. They are virtually the same; the only inherent, important differences lie in their supposed positions on social issues (and I'm not holding my breath that President Obama is going to push for federal recognition of gay marriage or that President Romney is going to push for abortion illegalization).
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby stahrgazer on Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:10 am

Any of you read, really read, the reports on HOW Romney "balanced the budgets" of several companies?

Ever see the movie, "Pretty Woman"? Richard Gere before he got a change of heart and let that old man's company live, that's what Romney did to "balance budgets" of companies. His personal company, which he brainstormed and was CEO of, Bain, made hundreds of millions but left the original companies they took over, holding more hundreds of millions in debt.

(Some claim all the icky stuff happened after "Romney left" but that's not true. Romney planned some of the "icky stuff" and even when he went on to "balance the Olympics budget" he was still CEO of Bain until at least 2002.)

What he'd do is, put up 5m or so, borrow a few hundred mill for a takeover bid, usually encouraging the target company's managers to accept the bid for a nice bonus in their pocket, which they'd take. Then, with the "promise" of all this new capital, Romney'd arrange for the target company to borrow hundreds of millions, which then would get paid out to the upper echelons. Then, this "robust new company" stock would rise, and Romney would arrange the sales and get out. A majority of the targeted companies went bankrupt within 1-2 years, overwhelmed with hundreds of millions in debts. Approximately 20k United States jobs LOST from his schemes.

And, yeah, Romney "balanced the Olympics budget." Read how? He got grants from the United States Federal Government and used that, then spent enormous amounts, much more than was originally budgeted, for that Olympics.

Also, he arranged much of his "salary" to be given as stock instead of salary, which enabled him to skip out on paying any taxes on those earnings. (There are real reasons he alone, out of every "modern day" Presidential, Congressional, or Senate candidate; yup, Mitt and only Mitt, refuses to release decades of tax returns even though EVERYONE ELSE has.)

Now, Romney is definitely better than Obama at concealing immoral unpatriotic behaviors, and is better than Obama at finding all the tax loopholes that keep him getting rich on the backs of those beneath him. But a better candidate for President? Only for liars, semi-cheaters, and flip-floppers just like him, or those who wish to hate Obama so much that they won't even read "the goods" on Romeny, that are available all over the web. Rolling Stone articles are a good place to start.

Reading other information about how "leveraged buyouts" and "hostile takeovers" occur would give you a set of other resources to see just how Romney "balances budgets."

He's good at making money for himself and those he considers to be his peers, but unless you've got hundreds of millions to help finance similar schemes, he may not be the President for you after all.

And as for foreign affairs? He either wants to be just like Bush only moreso, or wants to be just like Obama only moreso; depends on which phase of the campaign he was in or who his audience is within the same phase of his campaign. He either wants us to stay in Afghanistan with about 20k troops for a good long time, or wants us to phase out in 2014 like is currently planned. He either wants to be buddies with China or wants to start a trade war by labeling them "currency manipulators." He thinks Russia is our biggest foe, decades after the Berlin Wall came down, and a scant ten years after we realized Al Qaeda and other middle east terrorists are truly our biggest foe.

Romney might also be totally against abortion under any circumstance or totally pro choice, depending on which day someone asked him the question.

If you like Medicare but you're not 55 or older, forget about it. Romney and Ryan want voucher systems for anyone younger than the seniors who qualify as baby boomers (like himself) which means, when your voucher is up, it doesn't matter how much it costs, the cost is on you - because his "voucher system" does not build in cost increases. At all.

He may wish to repeal Obamacare "today" but remember, it was his brainchild first and when he had that brainchild, he suggested it would be a fantastic national model. Oh. But wait. That was his opinion "yesterday," his opinion differs today, and tomorrow, who knows whose idea he'll go for?

Finally, he claims a budget balancing and tax lowering for the rich along with changes to deductions (limits for everyone) that will "create 12 million new jobs," yet when pressed for details, he tells his questioner to pick a number, any number... which means, HE did NOT pick a number, which means he CANNOT KNOW how many jobs his plan will gain - or lose - because he never ran the damned figures. If he had, he'd KNOW what the numbers need to be, not tell his questioners to pick their own numbers!

Listen up, folks, Obama may not be perfect but he's a helluva lot more honest about his ideas, how they will work, why they will work, than Mitt.

But. Admittedly, romney is alot better than Obama at making the types of soundbites he thinks his audience wants to hear.
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:32 am

WE DON'T WANT TO SEE THE SAUSAGE BEING MADE! JUST COOK IT UP AND SERVE IT WITH SOME SYRUP!!!!!!
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby Woodruff on Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:19 pm

Phatscotty wrote:WE DON'T WANT TO SEE THE SAUSAGE BEING MADE! JUST COOK IT UP AND SERVE IT WITH SOME SYRUP!!!!!!


So that's Mitt's saugage in your mouth? I was wondering.
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:34 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
Listen up, folks, Obama may not be perfect but he's a helluva lot more honest about his ideas, how they will work, why they will work, than Mitt.
Yep.
stahrgazer wrote:
But. Admittedly, romney is alot better than Obama at making the types of soundbites he thinks his audience wants to hear.
Which is why he might win.. particularly if liberals vote Green. He has a LOT more of those "independent non profits" making nice ads attacking Obama and supporting him.

This is also why the Green Party will fail.. and continue to fail. They are very poor at communicating in ways that average people want to hear.
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby Woodruff on Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:39 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:
But. Admittedly, romney is alot better than Obama at making the types of soundbites he thinks his audience wants to hear.
Which is why he might win.. particularly if liberals vote Green. He has a LOT more of those "independent non profits" making nice ads attacking Obama and supporting him.

This is also why the Green Party will fail.. and continue to fail. They are very poor at communicating in ways that average people want to hear.


I know it's hard to salve your conscience for betraying what you believe in, but you won't look so bad if it's an internal conversation rather than an external one. Just keep telling yourself, and eventually you'll believe it.
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby MegaProphet on Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:02 pm

Choosing the lesser of two evils keeps things exactly as they are
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:29 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:Which is why he might win.. particularly if liberals vote Green. He has a LOT more of those "independent non profits" making nice ads attacking Obama and supporting him.


This is another meme that the Democrat Party has breathlessly pushed in an attempt to trick lesser-informed people like yourself into believing they need to rally around the flag to prevent a SuperPAC takeover and must run, screaming from the Green and Justice parties. As Public Relations Strategist reported last month, SuperPACs have had a negligible impact on this election. Corporations already own both parties, they don't need to dump money into SuperPACs.

The Democrat and Republican parties have a severe enthusiasm deficit so need to use their mainstream media control to scare lesser-informed people like yourself into action. In point of evidence:

Barack Obama spends $9,118,000 for every 1-percentage point of popular support.

Mitt Romney spends $6,441,860 for every 1-percentage point of popular support.

Gary Johnson spends $500,000 for every 1-percentage point of popular support.

Jill Stein spends $250,000 for every 1-percentage point of popular support.


see:

CNN poll, September 1 -

Now suppose that the presidential candidates on the ballot in your state included Barack Obama as the Democratic Party's candidate, Mitt Romney as the Republican candidate, Gary Johnson as the Libertarian party candidate, and Jill Stein as the Green party candidate, who would you be more likely to vote for?

Barack Obama - 50%
Mitt Romney - 41%
Gary Johnson - 4%
Jill Stein - 2%
None - 1%

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/image ... rel10a.pdf


Spending as of September 1 -

Barack Obama - $459,000,000
Mitt Romney - $277,000,000
Gary Johnson - $2,000,000
Jill Stein - $500,000

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/summary_active.php

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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:36 pm

In the current issue of Journal of Marketing Research, University of Michigan and University of Chicago researchers find that Obama and Romney supporters all have similar value-sets. We already know the two candidates have identical value-sets, now we also know their supporters do as well.

    This is important to understanding the American body politic. Before we could say it was 45% (Republican) vs. 45% (Democrat) vs. 10% (third party). Now we know it's really 90% (sheeple) vs. 10% (intellectual elite). Not only are Romney/Obama aligned in their hatred for the American people, all of their supporters are similarly aligned in stamping out a tiny percentage of free-thought that remains. A zombie attack on a small outpost of survivors.
Being one of the poor can sometimes be attributed to fate. Being one of the morons is always a matter of choice.
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:42 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:Which is why he might win.. particularly if liberals vote Green. He has a LOT more of those "independent non profits" making nice ads attacking Obama and supporting him.


This is another meme that the Democrat Party has breathlessly pushed in an attempt to trick lesser-informed people like yourself into believing they need to rally around the flag to prevent a SuperPAC takeover and must run, screaming from the Green and Justice parties. As Public Relations Strategist reported last month, SuperPACs have had a negligible impact on this election. Corporations already own both parties, they don't need to dump money into SuperPACs


First, the truth is that they don't know how effective such advertising through SuperPACs is, and secondly they're not sure if it's ineffective or that the effects from the pro-D SuperPACs offset the effects from the pro-R SuperPACs. Third, it could be the case that SuperPACs themselves are not ineffective, but certain programs/production processes are ineffective--whereas, a few others are actually effective, but whose effectiveness is lost in the statistical aggregate.

The first point is an age-old problem that marketing has faced with mass advertisement. They're just not sure how effective it is. The relevant variables simply are not tractable, thus rendering statistical analysis mostly useless. (It also depends on one's product, but if that product is a politician, it gets even more complex.)
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:45 pm

Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:
But. Admittedly, romney is alot better than Obama at making the types of soundbites he thinks his audience wants to hear.
Which is why he might win.. particularly if liberals vote Green. He has a LOT more of those "independent non profits" making nice ads attacking Obama and supporting him.

This is also why the Green Party will fail.. and continue to fail. They are very poor at communicating in ways that average people want to hear.


I know it's hard to salve your conscience for betraying what you believe in, but you won't look so bad if it's an internal conversation rather than an external one. Just keep telling yourself, and eventually you'll believe it.

How about addressing some of the many points I brought up about WHY I don't support the green party instead of launching mindless attacks. (posted in the green party thread itself)

Its the Green Party that is being stupid, not me that has somehow "sold out". But hey... Luna Butterfly shared your opinion of me.
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:12 pm

MegaProphet wrote:Choosing the lesser of two evils keeps things exactly as they are


What is the alternative?
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:16 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
tzor wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:I feel like I've asked this question before, but...

COULD YOU PLEASE NAME FIVE REASONS WHY ROMNEY IS DIFFERENT THAN OBAMA


Sure, this is easy ...too easy ,,,

[*]Romney actually believes in this document called the constitution as being a good thing that must be followed.

What real evidence do you have that Romney values the constitution more than Obama?
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:22 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
tzor wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:I feel like I've asked this question before, but...

COULD YOU PLEASE NAME FIVE REASONS WHY ROMNEY IS DIFFERENT THAN OBAMA


Sure, this is easy ...too easy ,,,

[*]Romney actually believes in this document called the constitution as being a good thing that must be followed.

What real evidence do you have that Romney values the constitution more than Obama?


the question can be partially answered by the evidence we do have on the other side of the equation, being we know Obama wipes his ass with the Constitution....
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:29 pm

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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby Woodruff on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:30 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
tzor wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:I feel like I've asked this question before, but...

COULD YOU PLEASE NAME FIVE REASONS WHY ROMNEY IS DIFFERENT THAN OBAMA


Sure, this is easy ...too easy ,,,

[*]Romney actually believes in this document called the constitution as being a good thing that must be followed.

What real evidence do you have that Romney values the constitution more than Obama?


the question can be partially answered by the evidence we do have on the other side of the equation, being we know Obama wipes his ass with the Constitution....


Here, Phatscotty reveals that he has no evidence.
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby Woodruff on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:31 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:
But. Admittedly, romney is alot better than Obama at making the types of soundbites he thinks his audience wants to hear.
Which is why he might win.. particularly if liberals vote Green. He has a LOT more of those "independent non profits" making nice ads attacking Obama and supporting him.

This is also why the Green Party will fail.. and continue to fail. They are very poor at communicating in ways that average people want to hear.


I know it's hard to salve your conscience for betraying what you believe in, but you won't look so bad if it's an internal conversation rather than an external one. Just keep telling yourself, and eventually you'll believe it.


How about addressing some of the many points I brought up about WHY I don't support the green party instead of launching mindless attacks. (posted in the green party thread itself)


What you call reasons, I see as excuses.

PLAYER57832 wrote:Its the Green Party that is being stupid, not me that has somehow "sold out".


You have. There's not any question of that, to be honest. Your views do not align with Obama, yet you are voting for him because you want to be on the winning team.
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby Woodruff on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:33 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:How does Romneys love for Americas founding principles manifest itself in his policies? How does Obamas hate for Americas finding profiles manifest itself in his policies?

Without enough examples all were left with is rhetoric as the deciding factor.


it's as simple as principles are more important than individual policies.


Here, Phatscotty admits that he has no ground to stand on in supporting Republicans instead of Libertarians.
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:35 pm

Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:Its the Green Party that is being stupid, not me that has somehow "sold out".


You have. There's not any question of that, to be honest. Your views do not align with Obama, yet you are voting for him because you want to be on the winning team.


Player is voting for Obama the same reason Scott is voting for Romney. ITT they support each other's arguments without blinking.

Which validates the Journal of Marketing Research study I posted above. Romney and Obama supporters have the same value-set, just like their respective candidates. The battle is not Romney vs. Obama, it's a battle of Romney/Obama vs. the Intelligentsia.
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby Woodruff on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:35 pm

Phatscotty wrote:You think if Gary Johnson got elected, that Congress would even let him enact 5% of the policies he promises?


Here, Phatscotty admits that his "excuse" of promoting the Tea Party to fundamentally change Congress is a knowing lie and that he simply views the Tea Party in the same way that John Boehner does, as a vehicle for promoting his neo-conservative Republican agenda.
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:36 pm

Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:Its the Green Party that is being stupid, not me that has somehow "sold out".


You have. There's not any question of that, to be honest. Your views do not align with Obama, yet you are voting for him because you want to be on the winning team.

My views don't align with the Green Party, either. I have said that they are perhaps closer, but a closer match in opinions is not all that is involved. I have good friends who's ideas very much align with mine, but I am not voting them in for president, either. I don't believe they would be good presidential material. I don't beleive Jill Stein will be.

I am not sure why you are intent on insisting otherwise. That attitude is precisely why I disdain the Green Party.

AND.. its not that I am "supporting the winning party", as you claim.. its that I absolutely do NOT want Romney to win. I am not so much supporting Obama as opposing Romney. However, I am doing so in a means that is effective, rather than ineffective to the point of not accomplishing my goal.
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:40 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:You think if Gary Johnson got elected, that Congress would even let him enact 5% of the policies he promises?


Here, Phatscotty admits that his "excuse" of promoting the Tea Party to fundamentally change Congress is a knowing lie and that he simply views the Tea Party in the same way that John Boehner does, as a vehicle for promoting his neo-conservative Republican agenda.

The Tea Party actually DID infiltrate the Republican Party, did change it to a large extent. Not in a way I like, but had the green party done that back 30 years ago.. we might just have a viable green-like candidate today.

The Tea Party pressed on idea, had no real organization or standards other than one popular idea.

The Green Party puts forward a whole platform of idealistic, non-workable ideas. Their workable and good ideas are buried in amongst the rhetoric of garbage. So, they push people away instead of really uniting and collecting them.
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby Woodruff on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:41 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:Its the Green Party that is being stupid, not me that has somehow "sold out".


You have. There's not any question of that, to be honest. Your views do not align with Obama, yet you are voting for him because you want to be on the winning team.

My views don't align with the Green Party, either.


Correct. You're just another Democrat. You should stop pretending otherwise.
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby Woodruff on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:43 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:You think if Gary Johnson got elected, that Congress would even let him enact 5% of the policies he promises?


Here, Phatscotty admits that his "excuse" of promoting the Tea Party to fundamentally change Congress is a knowing lie and that he simply views the Tea Party in the same way that John Boehner does, as a vehicle for promoting his neo-conservative Republican agenda.


The Tea Party actually DID infiltrate the Republican Party, did change it to a large extent.


The Republican National Convention this year proves the lie to your words.
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Re: Romney is Better than Obama

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:44 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:The Green Party puts forward a whole platform of idealistic, non-workable ideas.


Which of their ideas are "non-workable?"

[crickets from Player]
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