PLAYER57832 wrote:BigBallinStalin wrote: PLAYER57832 wrote:BigBallinStalin wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:My feeling is that money is used to purchase things, mostly immediate needs and wants. It allows you to pursue immediate desires instead of looking more long term. It can hide impacts of ills you do in that way.
Money allows you to do both...
(long-term and short-term).
So, it's not money, or the love of money, that's the problem here. The 'problem' which you envision is having a high time preference (i.e. "I want it, and I want it now"), which is not in all cases a problem. Regarding the love of money, it doesn't matter if the thing wanted was money to buy X, Y, and Z. It could've been potatoes, which would be exchanged for X, Y, and Z in some barter economy.
My point was that money makes getting what you want NOW possible.
If you have to go out and raise the food you want, or make some product to trade, then it takes a lot more time.
Sure, money reduces transaction costs--but so do credit cards, and so do cars (reduced time to get to place A to buy X), so instead of blaming money, why not blame cars, banks, etc.?
(because it's not about money, it's about having a high time preference).
None of those were available at the time this was written down.
Also, credit, etc are really just different types of money.
Ah, so you're talking about the "money is the root of all evil" idea from the Age before Credit, which was... 800+ years ago, since credit has been around that long (and probably before). "But what about banks?" Venice, roughly 400 years ago. "What about credit cards"? Oh okay, so this idea against money only applies to time before credit cards, but then you run into the centuries-old bank and credit problem.
Either way, it's evident that you're (or whoever you want to shift this to) is complaining about high time preference--which they mistake for "love of money."
Money is a medium of exchange; that's all it is. It can be exchanged in the form of credit and debits, or as cash money, or as gold, silk cords, fancy beads, etc.
PLAYER57832 wrote:BigBallinStalin wrote: And your second sentence isn't necessarily true. You could be some farmer who gets paid by the day in potatoes, which you then trade for whatever good you want...
(hell, you could even have potatoes on a credit card, and transfer money that way).
IF you have already taken the time to grow the potatoes. Money gained through trade of goods is generally quicker -- the time of transport. Dependent generally upon producers. Today, though a lot of money is not directly linked to any product or service, its just money to those acquiring it.
But you're still missing the point. Your complaint against money/love of money and "you can get X NOW" is about transaction costs and time preference, and not about money itself. I've already explained this.
PLAYER57832 wrote:BigBallinStalin wrote: Sorry, but the criticism against money itself--or "the love of money"--isn't holding up.
I am talking about a famous saying and why it has for so long been held in regard.
I am not criticizing money, nor is the saying.
If you don't think the saying is true, that is a valid opinion, of course. However, you are acting as if this were my own personal saying and a recent one at that, and it isn't.
So, whenever you bring in any defense, it's not at all yours but from the idea? I find that unlikely unless you provide some source.
Finally,
1. Money allows for long-term spending and short-term spending, so you were completely wrong when you said, "It allows you to pursue immediate desires instead of looking more long term."
Why were you wrong? Because you're mixing up money with high time preference.
2. The following is wrong too: "
My point* was that money makes getting what you want NOW possible," but wait a minute! banks, credit, credit cards, cars, higher productivity (thus lower prices), etc., also "make getting what you want NOW possible"; therefore, it is not only money which causes this (note how you ignore my point about cars and how that reduces transaction costs).
3. Shifting to "Oh, well, I'm talking about the "love of money = evil" idea when it came out," is silly because many of the above institutions have been around for centuries, and furthermore...
*...it's
your point, and not the idea's? But just now, you said, "you are acting as if this were my own personal saying and a recent one at that, and it isn't." Obviously, you're contradicting yourself, and we have not been only discussing the "money is evil" saying, but also your own defense of it.