Gaza-Israel Ceasefire: Prison Conditions on Gaza Lifted

[saxitoxin]

We're a couple of generations past paying out the original owners. That does make a pretty fair case for your idea though.

Just this week, Germany agreed to an additional $200 million in claims to individuals (http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jew ... m-1.478151), on top of $80 billion paid to date (this excludes payments made by Austria and Switzerland), plus many tens of billions of property directly returned.

Also, property claims don't expire when the owner dies. They continue to the owners legal heirs if documentation, via will or probate records, can be established. All Palestinian land deeds were microfilmed and archived in Britain in the early 1950s so individual claims can be paid if Israel agrees to meet its legal obligations.

[AndyDufresne]

Even if you're Israeli, hebrew, Jewish or whatever... you can't live there. Someone will come kill you to take over. The place is jinxed.

It's like the Bermuda Triangle...where things and people poof out of existence.


--Andy

[2dimes]

Well, let's all have a hearty chortle laugh at this.

Zionism was supported by the German SS and Gestapo. Hitler himself personally supported Zionism. During the 1930's, in cooperation with the German authorities, Zionist groups organized a network of some 40 camps throughout Germany where prospective settlers were trained for their new lives in Palestine. As late as 1942 Zionists operated at least one of these officially authorized "Kibbutz" training camps over which flew the blue and white banner which would one day be adopted as the national flag of "Israel".

On December 7, 1938, Ben Gurion, the first head of the Zionist "state of Israel" declared "If I knew it was possible to save all the children in Germany by taking them to England, and only half of the children by taking them to Eretz Israel, I would choose the second solution."

Of the two and a half million Jews seeking refuge from the Nazis between 1935 and 1943, less than 9% went to settle in Palestine. The vast majority, 75%, went to the Soviet Union. In the mid-70's, more people emigrated out of "Israel' than came in.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antis ... upport.cfm

Symmetry conclusivly proved via his awesome link,

the nazis pretty much wiped out the German Jew population, almost to the man, woman and child.

Therefore there's no way two and a half million of them escaped. Just check it out for yourself here http://www.wikipedia.com

[patches70]

Making predictions of future victories by Israel is easy. Those predictions are based on an assumption Zionists will engage in deceit and duplicity and violation of the truce. But those are acts which will precipitate more aggressive military action against Israel in the future and will propel the entire region down a path that can only end in Allied Arab action against the pirate state. Israel barely scratched out victory in 1973 with massive U.S. resupply efforts. Once the U.S. has followed Europe over the brink of bankruptcy, Israel may find itself naked in a field of scorpions. If it's smart, and is thinking more than 9 months ahead, it will obey the ceasefire to the letter and spirit.

There is nothing in the agreement that ends the naval blockade. Look at the agreement, Israel is to facilitate the movement of goods-
"facilitating the movement of people and transfer of goods," which is how it's always been. All trade with Gaza must pass through Israel first, to be checked before moving on into Gaza.
That ain't changing.

Palestinians will be able to cross into Egypt (at times when Egyptians let them) so long as they have valid identification which is issued by Israel.
Trade through Egypt is still prohibited.

As the the coming economic problems, you've got a good point there. But just remember, the Arab states will be just as hard hit as everyone else. Maybe even worse, because unless the oil money keeps coming to pay off the various factions, they'll be killing each other.
The only thing the factions hate more than each other is Israel.

But, we'll see soon enough. Do you really think either side will honor the cease fire for very long? I haven't seen any Palestinian polls but there is one in Israel-
"A Channel 2 snap poll finds that 70 percent of the Israeli public does not support signing a ceasefire with Hamas, while 24% are in favor of it. Six percent say they don’t know.

Asked how long they believe the ceasefire will hold, 64% say they think it will last a short while, 24% say it won’t last at all, and 7% say it will last for a long time."


They all just itching to get back to fighting. Victory! Peace!

Sorry, there is no victory, there is no peace. But dreams are a good thing to have!

[Metsfanmax]

That's a claim dude. I've pointed out that the demographics I provided give ethnic backgrounds. It's well sourced, and isn't, as you suggest, a 2012 census.

Yes, the demographics you give describe the ethnic backgrounds of those people who live in Israel now that are not Israeli born. It does not describe the ethnic backgrounds of those people who lived in Israel in 1948. At that time, 0% of Israelis were Israeli born. If your source is also relevant to 1948 Israel, it therefore implies (absurdly) that only 32% of Israel's population had an ethnic background at that time. This isn't difficult to comprehend.

[Symmetry]

Well, let's all have a hearty chortle laugh at this.

Zionism was supported by the German SS and Gestapo. Hitler himself personally supported Zionism. During the 1930's, in cooperation with the German authorities, Zionist groups organized a network of some 40 camps throughout Germany where prospective settlers were trained for their new lives in Palestine. As late as 1942 Zionists operated at least one of these officially authorized "Kibbutz" training camps over which flew the blue and white banner which would one day be adopted as the national flag of "Israel".

On December 7, 1938, Ben Gurion, the first head of the Zionist "state of Israel" declared "If I knew it was possible to save all the children in Germany by taking them to England, and only half of the children by taking them to Eretz Israel, I would choose the second solution."

Of the two and a half million Jews seeking refuge from the Nazis between 1935 and 1943, less than 9% went to settle in Palestine. The vast majority, 75%, went to the Soviet Union. In the mid-70's, more people emigrated out of "Israel' than came in.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antis ... upport.cfm

Symmetry conclusivly proved via his awesome link,

the nazis pretty much wiped out the German Jew population, almost to the man, woman and child.

Therefore there's no way two and a half million of them escaped. Just check it out for yourself here http://www.wikipedia.com

You might find that last quote was patches pointing out your idiocy, and fairly generously too.

I can even give you the source:

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=181244&start=105#p3963743

[2dimes]

Right, it's rediculas to claim two and a half million got away. I hear you man.

[GreecePwns]

patches, as much as your skepticism is valid, the language of the ceasefire deliberately states that Israel cannot place any restrictions on the free movement of Gaza on its borders. The coast is also considered a border upon which Israel cannot place restrictions based on the language of the agreement.

It's possible there will be language added regarding Iranian shipping of weapons to Gaza, but probably not much more.

There's a whole lot of wait and see here, but the fact that they'd even agree to this is promising.

[patches70]

We're a couple of generations past paying out the original owners. That does make a pretty fair case for your idea though.

Just this week, Germany agreed to an additional $200 million in claims to individuals (http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jew ... m-1.478151), on top of $80 billion paid to date (this excludes payments made by Austria and Switzerland), plus many tens of billions of property directly returned.

Also, property claims don't expire when the owner dies. They continue to the owners legal heirs if documentation, via will or probate records, can be established. All Palestinian land deeds were microfilmed and archived in Britain in the early 1950s so individual claims can be paid if Israel agrees to meet its legal obligations.

Let's play devil's advocate for a second. Let's say Israel "does the right thing" and pays compensation to the Palestinian families. Those who lost property will be compensated and retain no further claims on their former land.

First off, how much of that money will be, umm, how shall I put this....taxed by Hamas or whomever happens to be in charge of the somewhat nebulous thing of a Palestinian State that's not a State?
I figure after Israel pays the people off the people will still be dirt poor because they have scumbag leadership. Kinda like the petty tyrant dictatorships in some African nations.

Second off, after being paid off and having no further claims to the land that was once theirs, what then? Where do the Palestinians go from there? If they have money anyone will take them in, so long as those coming have money. If not, well, like we've seen time and time again, no one wants Palestinians living around them.

Third, once paid off, you think that will sate the hatred? Stop the violence?

Things like this can be handled, civilized and such, but both parties must be civilized. I have my doubts about Hamas. Legally elected (I assume), sure, civilized, not so much.

The most likely scenario would be that Hamas would confiscate every dime of that money and use it to build it's forces to continue the fight. The alternative would be to renounce the violence, use the money to turn Gaza into a paradise and start building something that they'd be loathe to sacrifice on emotion.
There is nothing in Gaza, thus it's not so hard nor a bad idea for them to keep on fighting.
But if they actually had something to lose (beside their lives) they might be a bit more amiable toward accepting a true peace.

The Palestinians could have had their own legal State a long time ago if they'd only quit hating. But it wasn't enough. There is no way that Israel paying off the Palestinians would work. It's like paying protection money to the mob. It never ends until it comes time to firebomb all your property so the mob can collect on your insurance.
(Not to mention the fact that by paying them off Israel would be admitting they stole Palestinian land. Regardless if it's true or not, it's not a good legal position to be in. Germany, to their credit, admitted to their own wrongdoing during their brief period of insanity and are making good on their mistakes. Like a civilized people).

But we ain't talking about civilized people in all this, for the most part. You may include the Israeli's in that as well if you wish. Doesn't change anything at all though.

[Dukasaur]

Of the two and a half million Jews seeking refuge from the Nazis between 1935 and 1943, less than 9% went to settle in Palestine.

A half-truth.

So few went to Palestine because Neville Chamberlain's Hitler-loving government reneged on the promises made in the Balfour Declaration and restricted Jewish immigration to Palestine at the time when it was most needed. If not for Chamberlain's perfidy, the vast majority of the Jews fleeing Europe would have been able to go there.
Source

[patches70]

You might find that last quote was patches pointing out your idiocy, and fairly generously too.

I wasn't pointing out anyone's idiocy. I just pointed out that once the Nazi's started killing Jews they killed every last one of them that were in Germany.

Mets is correct, a large number did escape before it came to that, but all those that didn't, ended up in the ovens.

Keep me out of your spat, please.

[Symmetry]

You might find that last quote was patches pointing out your idiocy, and fairly generously too.

I wasn't pointing out anyone's idiocy. I just pointed out that once the Nazi's started killing Jews they killed every last one of them that were in Germany.

Mets is correct, a large number did escape before it came to that, but all those that didn't, ended up in the ovens.

Keep me out of your spat, please.

Fair enough, he was attributing your quote to me though. Not that he's great when it comes to sources generally.

[patches70]

patches, as much as your skepticism is valid, the language of the ceasefire deliberately states that Israel cannot place any restrictions on the free movement of Gaza on its borders. The coast is also considered a border upon which Israel cannot place restrictions based on the language of the agreement.

It's possible there will be language added regarding Iranian shipping of weapons to Gaza, but probably not much more.

There's a whole lot of wait and see here, but the fact that they'd even agree to this is promising.

That's fair enough, but I don't see the Israeli's caving on the blockade.
They'll stay out of Palestinian movement within Gaza but the Israeli's aren't letting anything into Gaza without checking it first.

It's interesting to note, the crossing between Gaza and Egypt is closed most of the time not because of Israel, but because Egypt keeps it closed. The restriction on trade through the crossing is from the Egyptians, not the Israelis (but that might be because of the former regime's willingness to keep the peace between Egypt and Israel. I don't think the MB has such a willingness).
The Egyptians don't really want the Palestinians in Egypt. Too much trouble gets whipped up.

The Palestinians are pawns in a bigger scheme, by all sides. This is one reason why they'll never get out of this mess, there are too many that depend on them being the focal point, which they wouldn't be if they made a lasting peace with Israel. Nope, the Palestinians have to suffer for a greater cause.

But yes, wait and see. Maybe this time will be different.

[2dimes]

I wasn't pointing out anyone's idiocy. I just pointed out that once the Nazi's started killing Jews they killed every last one of them that were in Germany.

Mets is correct, a large number did escape before it came to that, but all those that didn't, ended up in the ovens.

Keep me out of your spat, please.

Sorry patches. I specifically took your name off but yeah I probably shouldn't have used your quote at all. I used it because of the wording that kind of suggested that no Jews escaped Germany when there was another "source" suggesting 2.5 million did.

[saxitoxin]

We're a couple of generations past paying out the original owners. That does make a pretty fair case for your idea though.

Just this week, Germany agreed to an additional $200 million in claims to individuals (http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jew ... m-1.478151), on top of $80 billion paid to date (this excludes payments made by Austria and Switzerland), plus many tens of billions of property directly returned.

Also, property claims don't expire when the owner dies. They continue to the owners legal heirs if documentation, via will or probate records, can be established. All Palestinian land deeds were microfilmed and archived in Britain in the early 1950s so individual claims can be paid if Israel agrees to meet its legal obligations.

Let's play devil's advocate for a second. Let's say Israel "does the right thing" and pays compensation to the Palestinian families. Those who lost property will be compensated and retain no further claims on their former land.

First off, how much of that money will be, umm, how shall I put this....taxed by Hamas or whomever happens to be in charge of the somewhat nebulous thing of a Palestinian State that's not a State?
I figure after Israel pays the people off the people will still be dirt poor because they have scumbag leadership. Kinda like the petty tyrant dictatorships in some African nations.

Second off, after being paid off and having no further claims to the land that was once theirs, what then? Where do the Palestinians go from there? If they have money anyone will take them in, so long as those coming have money. If not, well, like we've seen time and time again, no one wants Palestinians living around them.

Third, once paid off, you think that will sate the hatred? Stop the violence?

Things like this can be handled, civilized and such, but both parties must be civilized. I have my doubts about Hamas. Legally elected (I assume), sure, civilized, not so much.

The most likely scenario would be that Hamas would confiscate every dime of that money and use it to build it's forces to continue the fight. The alternative would be to renounce the violence, use the money to turn Gaza into a paradise and start building something that they'd be loathe to sacrifice on emotion.
There is nothing in Gaza, thus it's not so hard nor a bad idea for them to keep on fighting.
But if they actually had something to lose (beside their lives) they might be a bit more amiable toward accepting a true peace.

The Palestinians could have had their own legal State a long time ago if they'd only quit hating. But it wasn't enough. There is no way that Israel paying off the Palestinians would work. It's like paying protection money to the mob. It never ends until it comes time to firebomb all your property so the mob can collect on your insurance.
(Not to mention the fact that by paying them off Israel would be admitting they stole Palestinian land. Regardless if it's true or not, it's not a good legal position to be in. Germany, to their credit, admitted to their own wrongdoing during their brief period of insanity and are making good on their mistakes. Like a civilized people).

But we ain't talking about civilized people in all this, for the most part. You may include the Israeli's in that as well if you wish. Doesn't change anything at all though.

Oh, I agree, Israel paying the $200-$300 billion they owe is only the first step.

- Full compensation for seized properties must be paid,
- Single payments for relocation expenses for all Palestinians living in refugee camps who do not have property claims must be paid,
- Every stateless Palestinian must be offered citizenship in some nation,
- The status of the West Bank and Gaza must be permanently resolved (either as independent states, fully incorporated into Israel or merged with Jordan and Egypt),
- Israel must return the Golan Heights to Syria,
- Israel must rescind the Jerusalem Law and return its capital to Tel Aviv,
- Israel must sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Agreement
- Israel must end state funding for the "Birthright" program, change their national flag and abolish kosher food laws in Israel

Continued military operations against Israel would be unjustified if Israel agreed to meet all these conditions, IMO.

[Viceroy63]

Sorry to interrupt, but this seemed kind of interesting as to what the current Israeli government hope to achieve with regards to Israel's operation in Gaza :

The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Only then will Israel be calm for forty years.

Source- Haaretz

The post is at 7:55.

This is absolute proof of why Israel cannot be tolerated as a state in the community of nations.

An amoeba avoids electric fields. The amoeba doesn't know why an electric field is bad, it just instinctively avoids it. At a visceral level humans understand there is something fundamentally incorrect about the State of Israel. Its existence is a violation of the natural order.

Hmm, still trying to see what you can call Israel and Israelis without being openly anti-Semitic? The sad thing is that you've been doing this so long it's not even trolling anymore.

Sorry, I didn't realize "electric field" was a slur.

Stop being such a 120 Volt Outlet, Symmetry.

When - in any other conflict in the modern era - has a nation been conjured into existence for the singular purpose of conquest? Nations war with nations all the time. Only in the case of Israel has a nation been manufactured for the sole purpose of waging war. How is this not a violation of the natural order? How can a nation founded on that ethos ever be redeemed?

I don't know if anyone has responded to this comment yet as I am still reading through all 11 pages of this. But modern Israel did not come into existence because of some purpose to create War. That's just the way things turned out. Modern day Israel came into existence out of a sympathetic and heart felt need for the survival of a people and a race.

Adolf Hitler in WWII murdered over 11 million civilians. This is not counting the military soldiers who died in that war. 6 million of the 11 million civilians were Jews. Exact records can never be found but this is at the very least a rough and accurate estimate of civilian exterminations. At the very least!

The Nations at the time saw the solution to this problem as clear as the nose on their faces and decided to form the nation of Israel and let them protect themselves so that they could survive on as a people and a race. So that history may never repeat itself and finish what Hitler began. After 6 million European Jewish deaths, the Jews could actually be considered on the species extinction list as a race. In recent human history this has not been seen.

That is why modern day Israel exist today. I know that this is some what out of context to the Gaza/Israeli crisis brewing over there right now, but I just wanted to mention that.

[Symmetry]

Well put Viceroy.

[patches70]

That's quite a list. I know I'm going to regret this later, but I have to ask-

change their national flag

Why?

abolish kosher food laws in Israel

Why should anyone other than Israel determine what Israeli laws are?

Israel must end state funding for the "Birthright" program,

Why? Most of those who participate in this program are American or Canadian, who have some measure of freedom. Now if Israel was forcing people to participate you'd have a point.

relocation expenses for all Palestinians living in refugee camps who do not have property claims must be paid,

What? Gaza is their home. They had no other, ever.

Every stateless Palestinian must be offered citizenship in some nation,

That would be one hell of a problem. Hell, nations are quicker to take Gitmo prisoners than they will to let Palestinians into their nation.
And what happened to the Palestinian State? Shouldn't that be where they are legal citizens to, under the thumb of Hamas? (The legally elected Palestinian government).

Continued military operations against Israel would be unjustified if Israel agreed to meet all these conditions, IMO.

Since we are playing make believe, once Israel does all those conditions and afterward still survive as a nation, that will end the violence and hate?
In exchange for all that would Israel receive official recognition as a nation from all the Middle East nations?

Make believe!

[saxitoxin]

That's quite a list. I know I'm going to regret this later, but I have to ask-

change their national flag

Why?

The Israeli flag is an offensive provocation.

abolish kosher food laws in Israel

Why should anyone other than Israel determine what Israeli laws are?

Nations that claim to be secular and respect significant minorities should not allow the Central Rabbinical Authority FDA-like powers. These should be the responsibility of a civil office. Giving the CRA police power is an offensive provocation.

Israel must end state funding for the "Birthright" program,

Why? Most of those who participate in this program are American or Canadian, who have some measure of freedom. Now if Israel was forcing people to participate you'd have a point.

Every aspect of the Birthright program - including its name - is an offensive provocation. If private parties want to fund it (my understanding is that 80% of its funding comes from private parties anyway) that's fine, however, Arab citizens of Israel should not be compelled to pay taxes to propagate pseudo-scientific, revisionist history and fund holiday junkets to which only members of a single religion are eligible.

relocation expenses for all Palestinians living in refugee camps who do not have property claims must be paid,

What? Gaza is their home. They had no other, ever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinia ... t_of_camps

Every stateless Palestinian must be offered citizenship in some nation,

That would be one hell of a problem. Hell, nations are quicker to take Gitmo prisoners than they will to let Palestinians into their nation.
And what happened to the Palestinian State? Shouldn't that be where they are legal citizens to, under the thumb of Hamas? (The legally elected Palestinian government).

They won't all fit in Gaza and the West Bank. If they politely agree to take money in exchange for their land, they must be also offered a place where they can acquire new property or the payment of said monies is pointless.

[2dimes]

:swoons

I was going to suggest you buy this http://www.controller.com/listingsdetai ... 175336.htm so we can fly around in short shorts and drink Coke Zero™ but only if you can afford to sign us up for satelite internet.

[patches70]

They won't all fit in Gaza and the West Bank. If they politely agree to take money in exchange for their land, they must be also offered a place where they can acquire new property or the payment of said monies is pointless.

Oh, if one has money, one can find a place to live. Even if that one happens to be Palestinian.
The poor bastard who has no money, or who's money is confiscated by Hamas, well, those suckers are out of luck, right?

The Israeli flag is an offensive provocation.

Offensive, that's mysterious. What makes something offensive?

If I stand up and take a dump right on your dinner plate as you're eating dinner, that's offensive. 99.9999% of people in the world would feel the same, only the fecalphiles would approve.
To the Israeli flag it's more like 99.9999% of people in the world couldn't care less about the flag or even know what it means.

Offensive? Naw, just because you see something you don't like doesn't make it offensive. Besides, since when have people had the right to never be offended?

Nations that claim to be secular and respect significant minorities should not allow the Central Rabbinical Authority FDA-like powers. These should be the responsibility of a civil office. Giving the CRA police power is an offensive provocation.

Does Israel force non-jews to eat kosher food?
Is kosher food somehow dangerous to people?

That's like making it against the law to say grace before meals because some atheist doesn't believe in God.
I'm not familiar with the kosher laws in Israel, but I'd assume kosher meals are widely available. Are non-kosher meals available for those who <gulp> are offended?

Every aspect of the Birthright program - including its name - is an offensive provocation. If private parties want to fund it (my understanding is that 80% of its funding comes from private parties anyway) that's fine, however, Arab citizens of Israel should not be compelled to pay taxes to propagate pseudo-scientific, revisionist history and fund holiday junkets to which only members of a single religion are eligible.

I saw a commercial on TV for a vacation package to Belize. I tell ya, that should be illegal! /sarc

Really? Holiday junkets, that only allow certain people. Sounds like a boy scout outing.....Do you hate Boy Scouts, Saxi?




Oh, yeah, I see your point there about the refugee camps. Yeah, something gotta be done about that. My question is withdrawn.


IDK, man, I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that Israel would never agree to all those terms.
I guess the Palestinians are crap out of luck until they can obtain the means to obliterate every Jew on the planet. All they have to do is convince everyone else to hate the Jews as well.
I see the Palestinians are making good ground on this front......

[2dimes]

The Israeli flag is an offensive provocation.

Offensive, that's mysterious. What makes something offensive?

I could make it my signature. If I get banned and stuff we'll know for sure it's offensive because the konker klub is an expert in the field.

[saxitoxin]

They won't all fit in Gaza and the West Bank. If they politely agree to take money in exchange for their land, they must be also offered a place where they can acquire new property or the payment of said monies is pointless.

Oh, if one has money, one can find a place to live. Even if that one happens to be Palestinian.
The poor bastard who has no money, or who's money is confiscated by Hamas, well, those suckers are out of luck, right?

The Israeli flag is an offensive provocation.

Offensive, that's mysterious. What makes something offensive?

If I stand up and take a dump right on your dinner plate as you're eating dinner, that's offensive. 99.9999% of people in the world would feel the same, only the fecalphiles would approve.
To the Israeli flag it's more like 99.9999% of people in the world couldn't care less about the flag or even know what it means.

Germany changed its flag from the Swastika because peace was more important than symbology. Israel should also not fly a Nazi-inspired flag; it is considered an offensive symbol by Orthodox Jewry (it is banned in Sephardic temples) and Arabs. However, if Israel wants to eschew personal responsibility and choose to keep flying it, that's fine. It just shouldn't whine like a welfare mom out of food stamps if offensive military operations continue due to its choices.

Nations that claim to be secular and respect significant minorities should not allow the Central Rabbinical Authority FDA-like powers. These should be the responsibility of a civil office. Giving the CRA police power is an offensive provocation.

Does Israel force non-jews to eat kosher food?

Israel gives religious authorities of the favored religion the power to regulate food packaging and labeling. Muslim, Druze, Bahai and Christian authorities are given no similar police power. If Israel wants to abandon the pretense that it's a secular state and admit it's a fundamentalist nutjob theocracy, though, that's fine.

Every aspect of the Birthright program - including its name - is an offensive provocation. If private parties want to fund it (my understanding is that 80% of its funding comes from private parties anyway) that's fine, however, Arab citizens of Israel should not be compelled to pay taxes to propagate pseudo-scientific, revisionist history and fund holiday junkets to which only members of a single religion are eligible.

I saw a commercial on TV for a vacation package to Belize. I tell ya, that should be illegal! /sarc

Really? Holiday junkets, that only allow certain people. Sounds like a boy scout outing.....Do you hate Boy Scouts, Saxi?

My tax dollars don't go to fund the Boy Scouts. Taxes are forcibly collected from Israeli Arab citizens to pay for luxury vacations for American and Canadian Jews during which they are taught a revisionist and racist version of history. If private parties want to pay to teach pseudo-science, eugenics, etc., that's fine. Arabs shouldn't be forced to pay their money to fund an education program that teaches they are dogs.

IDK, man, I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that Israel would never agree to all those terms.

They don't need to agree. Israel is treading water in the deep end of the pool. If they don't want to agree to reasonable requests, that's their right. If I were the Israelis I would choose the path of least pain and voluntarily agree to concessions sooner rather than having them imposed through force of arms later. But I don't care either way. What will come, will come.

[saxitoxin]

A great photoset of yesterday's Sinn Fein rally in support of Palestine outside Belfast City Hall -

http://demotix.com/news/1617428/rally-h ... ia-1617407




And, in New York, Orthodox Jews demand the disbandment of Israel and transfer of 100% of Israeli territory to the control of the Palestinian National Authority -

http://demotix.com/news/1618462/orthodo ... ia-1618505

[2dimes]

That's a pretty hot fat chick. Has anyone alerted Gillipig?