Gaza-Israel Ceasefire: Prison Conditions on Gaza Lifted

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Re: Another Round of Israeli Attacks on Gaza

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:15 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:Having a harsh view of Israeli citizens is not anti-Semitism. It can be argued that the Israeli citizens, of which 99.9% are sitting on stolen land and of which 116 for every 120 vote for militant Zionist parties (militant to varying degrees, this according to the current Knesset configuration), are just as much a part of the offensive as the IDF. Justice calls for the following:

1. The return of illegally seized property to Palestinian owners or their estate. Theft is theft, and the legal conventions for theft include the return of stolen property.
2. The entire region put under Palestinian administration.
3. The land legally purchased by Jews pre-1948 to stay in the hands of the owners.


Hmm, as I said, my issue with Saxitoxin's view of Israel and Israeli's goes back a fair way, and goes into other threads. As Saxi's response above suggests, he's uncomfortable with confronting the stuff he's posted.

I'm pretty sympathetic to your points, although I think I take more of a middle ground. I'd advise a degree of caution before you align yourself too closely with Saxitoxin though. Describing Israel as a cockroach to be stamped out sets off my anti-Semitic radar.


I stand by everything I posted. So far you've only been able to make cryptic allusions to some supposed past transgressions of mine. The one example you've managed to conjure is fictitious.

What I did say was: If the "State of Israel" doesn't want to be crushed like a cockroach, it should stop acting like a pest. This was said, specifically, in a discussion about whether Israel should feel threatened by Iran's alleged acquisition of self-defense weapons. Meaning, if Israel stopped doing things like engaging in military operations whose goal is "to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages" it wouldn't be under threat. The word "cockroach" is frequently invoked in discussions about nuclear war. But, by all means, keep looking for some hidden meaning that will reinforce your nutter conspiracy theories.




Maybe your name happened to be mentioned in a newsletter by what someone who is not you wrote in some publication 30 years ago? Ya know, if that's the case, it doesn't matter what you do, your legacy is defined now.


It's possible. I used to keep a Livejournal during my emo/goth cutting phase, but I haven't updated that in like 2 years. And I *highly* doubt Symmetry or anyone else has ever seen it.
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Re: Another Round of Israeli Attacks on Gaza

Postby Symmetry on Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:20 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Maybe your name happened to be mentioned in a newsletter by what someone who is not you wrote in some publication 30 years ago? Ya know, if that's the case, it doesn't matter what you do, your legacy is defined now.


It's possible. I used to keep a Livejournal during my emo/goth cutting phase, but I haven't updated that in like 2 years. And I *highly* doubt Symmetry or anyone else has ever seen it.


You guys are odd.
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Postby 2dimes on Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:23 pm

Matityahu didn't mean it, he loved you.
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Re: Another Round of Israeli Attacks on Gaza

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:55 pm

MSNBC Anchor Tells Israeli Ambassador Hamas Rockets 'Rarely Do Damage"



MSNBC's Mara Schiavocampo interviews Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren, An example of how much work Israeli officials face in their effort to pass through the filter of the mainstream media and present their side of the story.
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Re: Another Round of Israeli Attacks on Gaza

Postby Ray Rider on Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:56 pm

GreecePwns wrote:Let's start with the fact that 99% of Congress is already Zionist, some vehemently so.

GreecePwns wrote:I'm pretty sure all of what I've written in this thread is true. If you don't think so, prove it.

Actually no, if you make ludicrous statements like that, the onus is on you to prove their veracity, otherwise we'll just dismiss them offhand along with all the other crack-pot claims copied from Ahmadinejad.


Symmetry wrote:Sorry to interrupt, but this seemed kind of interesting as to what the current Israeli government hope to achieve with regards to Israel's operation in Gaza :
Interior Minister Eli Yishai wrote:The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Only then will Israel be calm for forty years.

Source- Haaretz
The post is at 7:55.

That's rather idiotic of a man in his position to be making statements about foreign policy which A) is none of his business and B) he doesn't know anything about. Now if it was Netanyahu making that statement it would be very troubling.


Here's something I found pretty sad...not only is Hamas firing rockets into Israel at innocent civilians (if they seriously wanted to hit the IDF, they would use a different method instead of firing rockets indiscriminately which only rarely hits the IDF), but they've also killed some of their own with their erratic rocket launches, most recently a four-year-old boy:
Image
But there were signs on Saturday that not all the Palestinian casualties have been the result of Israeli air strikes. The highly publicised death of four-year-old Mohammed Sadallah appeared to have been the result of a misfiring home-made rocket, not a bomb dropped by Israel.

The child’s death on Friday figured prominently in media coverage after Hisham Kandil, the Egyptian prime minister, was filmed lifting his dead body out of an ambulance. "The boy, the martyr, whose blood is still on my hands and clothes, is something that we cannot keep silent about," he said, before promising to defend the Palestinian people.

But experts from the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights who visited the site on Saturday said they believed that the explosion was caused by a Palestinian rocket.
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Re: Another Round of Israeli Attacks on Gaza

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:01 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Maybe your name happened to be mentioned in a newsletter by what someone who is not you wrote in some publication 30 years ago? Ya know, if that's the case, it doesn't matter what you do, your legacy is defined now.


It's possible. I used to keep a Livejournal during my emo/goth cutting phase, but I haven't updated that in like 2 years. And I *highly* doubt Symmetry or anyone else has ever seen it.


I lol'd
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Re: Another Round of Israeli Attacks on Gaza

Postby patches70 on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:25 pm

GreecePwns wrote:Let's start with the fact that 99% of Congress is already Zionist, some vehemently so.


And lets not forget another fact, that 99% of people's statistics are made up.


(Sorry, I couldn't resist, please do continue the Israel bashing).


We should give the Palestinians their own country. Maybe we could give them half of California. No one would mind, and those that did, who cares?

Of course, no one really wants to be neighbors with the Palestinians. They play loud music at all hours of the night, they spit when they talk and generally don't clean up after themselves.

Oh, yeah, and on the one hand they insist that the US solve their problems and on the other hand burn the American flag and chant "Death to America!" They might have better luck if they'd just stick with one or the other sentiment. Preferably the latter. Then we can have ourselves a good old fashioned fight and we'll see who comes out on top. That might not work out too well for the Palestinians though, so I doubt they'll go for it. They'll keep smiling to our face as they seek favor (spitting in our face the whole time) while holding a knife behind their back.

Ahhh, good times, good times.
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Re: Another Round of Israeli Attacks on Gaza

Postby Dukasaur on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:29 pm

GreecePwns wrote:Having a harsh view of Israeli citizens is not anti-Semitism. It can be argued that the Israeli citizens, of which 99.9% are sitting on stolen land and of which 116 for every 120 vote for militant Zionist parties (militant to varying degrees, this according to the current Knesset configuration), are just as much a part of the offensive as the IDF. Justice calls for the following:

1. The return of illegally seized property to Palestinian owners or their estate. Theft is theft, and the legal conventions for theft include the return of stolen property.
2. The entire region put under Palestinian administration.
3. The land legally purchased by Jews pre-1948 to stay in the hands of the owners.

After you return upstate New York to the Seneca people, the Dakotas to the Sioux, the Ohio valley to the Osage, etc., etc., etc., you might have enough moral stature to start lecturing other countries about how to settle their indigenous land claims.
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Re: Another Round of Israeli Attacks on Gaza

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:36 pm

The segments I see on cable news and have come across in some newspapers concerning recent events involving Israel and Gaza offers some of the most sickening opinion and information I have ever seen. Listening to the Palestinian side and watching one particular fellow on CNN, I started to see this guy was absolutely bloodthirsty and evil as the show host let him go on and on unchecked, unchallenged. But she made it a point to check the Isreali guy repeatedly. That's when I realized there are plenty of people who would just stand by and watch of there was another Holocaust

It appeared demonic and it sent a chill up my spine
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Re: Another Round of Israeli Attacks on Gaza

Postby Symmetry on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:38 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:Having a harsh view of Israeli citizens is not anti-Semitism. It can be argued that the Israeli citizens, of which 99.9% are sitting on stolen land and of which 116 for every 120 vote for militant Zionist parties (militant to varying degrees, this according to the current Knesset configuration), are just as much a part of the offensive as the IDF. Justice calls for the following:

1. The return of illegally seized property to Palestinian owners or their estate. Theft is theft, and the legal conventions for theft include the return of stolen property.
2. The entire region put under Palestinian administration.
3. The land legally purchased by Jews pre-1948 to stay in the hands of the owners.

After you return upstate New York to the Seneca people, the Dakotas to the Sioux, the Ohio valley to the Osage, etc., etc., etc., you might have enough moral stature to start lecturing other countries about how to settle their indigenous land claims.


That seems like a kind of get out clause. As if you can't say something is wrong unless you go through a set of historic condemnations and apologies first, before you get to point out a wrong in the current day.
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Re: Another Round of Israeli Attacks on Gaza

Postby Dukasaur on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:47 pm

Symmetry wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:Having a harsh view of Israeli citizens is not anti-Semitism. It can be argued that the Israeli citizens, of which 99.9% are sitting on stolen land and of which 116 for every 120 vote for militant Zionist parties (militant to varying degrees, this according to the current Knesset configuration), are just as much a part of the offensive as the IDF. Justice calls for the following:

1. The return of illegally seized property to Palestinian owners or their estate. Theft is theft, and the legal conventions for theft include the return of stolen property.
2. The entire region put under Palestinian administration.
3. The land legally purchased by Jews pre-1948 to stay in the hands of the owners.

After you return upstate New York to the Seneca people, the Dakotas to the Sioux, the Ohio valley to the Osage, etc., etc., etc., you might have enough moral stature to start lecturing other countries about how to settle their indigenous land claims.


That seems like a kind of get out clause. As if you can't say something is wrong unless you go through a set of historic condemnations and apologies first, before you get to point out a wrong in the current day.

It was a suitably arrogant response to GP's sanctimonious tone. As ye sow, so ye shall reap.
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Re: Another Round of Israeli Attacks on Gaza

Postby GreecePwns on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:51 pm

Ray Rider wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:Let's start with the fact that 99% of Congress is already Zionist, some vehemently so.

GreecePwns wrote:I'm pretty sure all of what I've written in this thread is true. If you don't think so, prove it.

Actually no, if you make ludicrous statements like that, the onus is on you to prove their veracity, otherwise we'll just dismiss them offhand along with all the other crack-pot claims copied from Ahmadinejad.

Really? If you disagree, name 5 anti-Zionists in the American Congress (1% is actually 5.38 Congresspeople, but it's close enough). Surely, that will be so easy for you to if I'm so crazy.
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Re: Another Round of Israeli Attacks on Gaza

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:54 pm

Ray Rider wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:Let's start with the fact that 99% of Congress is already Zionist, some vehemently so.

GreecePwns wrote:I'm pretty sure all of what I've written in this thread is true. If you don't think so, prove it.

Actually no, if you make ludicrous statements like that, the onus is on you to prove their veracity, otherwise we'll just dismiss them offhand along with all the other crack-pot claims copied from Ahmadinejad.


Zionist, being a state-of-mind, can't be objectively proved so to suggest GreecePwns needs to present the membership rolls of congressmen who are pro-Zionist in order to maintain the idea that the overwhelming majority of Congress is Zionist, is a ridiculous standard.

If we look at members of Congress who have received money from AIPAC, every single Republican (I only note Republicans because I don't know the figure for Democrats, but I bet it's close to 100%) has taken funds from a Zionist front group except three (four prior to Ron Paul's retirement) ... the Quebecois-American congressman Geoff Davis, plus Bob Inglis and Charles Boustany. These three were among the only U.S. congressmen who voted for the U.S. to endorse the United Nations Goldstone Report that accused Israel of crimes against humanity. (But, obviously, Judge Goldstone must have been anti-Semitic.)

Dukasaur wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:Having a harsh view of Israeli citizens is not anti-Semitism. It can be argued that the Israeli citizens, of which 99.9% are sitting on stolen land and of which 116 for every 120 vote for militant Zionist parties (militant to varying degrees, this according to the current Knesset configuration), are just as much a part of the offensive as the IDF. Justice calls for the following:

1. The return of illegally seized property to Palestinian owners or their estate. Theft is theft, and the legal conventions for theft include the return of stolen property.
2. The entire region put under Palestinian administration.
3. The land legally purchased by Jews pre-1948 to stay in the hands of the owners.

After you return upstate New York to the Seneca people, the Dakotas to the Sioux, the Ohio valley to the Osage, etc., etc., etc., you might have enough moral stature to start lecturing other countries about how to settle their indigenous land claims.


While a generally valid point, the U.S. - at least - has settled its territorial disputes with the Senecas and Dakotas to the extent that neither the governments of the Seneca or Dakota Nations are making any active claims against the United States. And, when claims arise, a means of peacefully resolving them through a neutral tribunal exists.

In contrast, the Palestinian government does have active claims against Israel and the tribunals that exist to objectively arbitrate those disputes have had their rulings ignored by Israel. Palestinian-Israeli relations are at the same point Seneca-American relations were in the 1780s. To suggest an 18th century modus operandi is good enough for the Palestinians is dehumanizing.
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Re: Another Round of Israeli Attacks on Gaza

Postby Symmetry on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:57 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:Having a harsh view of Israeli citizens is not anti-Semitism. It can be argued that the Israeli citizens, of which 99.9% are sitting on stolen land and of which 116 for every 120 vote for militant Zionist parties (militant to varying degrees, this according to the current Knesset configuration), are just as much a part of the offensive as the IDF. Justice calls for the following:

1. The return of illegally seized property to Palestinian owners or their estate. Theft is theft, and the legal conventions for theft include the return of stolen property.
2. The entire region put under Palestinian administration.
3. The land legally purchased by Jews pre-1948 to stay in the hands of the owners.

After you return upstate New York to the Seneca people, the Dakotas to the Sioux, the Ohio valley to the Osage, etc., etc., etc., you might have enough moral stature to start lecturing other countries about how to settle their indigenous land claims.


That seems like a kind of get out clause. As if you can't say something is wrong unless you go through a set of historic condemnations and apologies first, before you get to point out a wrong in the current day.

It was a suitably arrogant response to GP's sanctimonious tone. As ye sow, so ye shall reap.


And that seems like another get-out, but a clever one, so fair enough- if you don't want to reply, I'm not going to be the guy to push you for a third time. Kudos on the clever dodge.
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Re: Another Round of Israeli Attacks on Gaza

Postby GreecePwns on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:59 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:Having a harsh view of Israeli citizens is not anti-Semitism. It can be argued that the Israeli citizens, of which 99.9% are sitting on stolen land and of which 116 for every 120 vote for militant Zionist parties (militant to varying degrees, this according to the current Knesset configuration), are just as much a part of the offensive as the IDF. Justice calls for the following:

1. The return of illegally seized property to Palestinian owners or their estate. Theft is theft, and the legal conventions for theft include the return of stolen property.
2. The entire region put under Palestinian administration.
3. The land legally purchased by Jews pre-1948 to stay in the hands of the owners.

After you return upstate New York to the Seneca people, the Dakotas to the Sioux, the Ohio valley to the Osage, etc., etc., etc., you might have enough moral stature to start lecturing other countries about how to settle their indigenous land claims.
I'm not an American, I'm a Greek, so I have nothing to do with these claims.

I also think that means I have more of a qualified claim on this, having seen the TRNC hijack half of Cyprus with the aid of a Turkey afraid of losing Aegean Sea trade and doing anything in their power to prevent that. This with the similar disregard for international law and property rights and even referenda in favor of unity with Greece.

EDIT: Rewording
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.

Viceroy wrote:[The Biblical creation story] was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.
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