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Unions Shut Down Hostess

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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Nola_Lifer on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:38 pm

What reality do you live in?
employees have always been free to move on to more enterprising jobs elsewhere
. That shit ain't free bub. It costs money to quit and move to find another job. Maybe they enjoyed what they do but weren't satisfied with what was happening, so instead of packing up like a bunch of weaklings they stood their ground and demanded more.

Just because your entitled to another job doesn't mean jobs are out there, nor does it mean that you have the access or the means to.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:09 pm

Nola_Lifer wrote:What reality do you live in?
employees have always been free to move on to more enterprising jobs elsewhere
. That shit ain't free bub. It costs money to quit and move to find another job. Maybe they enjoyed what they do but weren't satisfied with what was happening, so instead of packing up like a bunch of weaklings they stood their ground and demanded more.

Just because your entitled to another job doesn't mean jobs are out there, nor does it mean that you have the access or the means to.


that's why the part you deleted from my statement included "work at your current job while you look for another one"

ya stick
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:11 pm

And then they would just fire. :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(


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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby AAFitz on Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:28 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Nola_Lifer wrote:What reality do you live in?
employees have always been free to move on to more enterprising jobs elsewhere
. That shit ain't free bub. It costs money to quit and move to find another job. Maybe they enjoyed what they do but weren't satisfied with what was happening, so instead of packing up like a bunch of weaklings they stood their ground and demanded more.

Just because your entitled to another job doesn't mean jobs are out there, nor does it mean that you have the access or the means to.


that's why the part you deleted from my statement included "work at your current job while you look for another one"

ya stick


Except they weren't just being asked to work at their current job, they were being asked to work at their current job, for less...and clearly since you posted about their mediation, they will not have to work for as much less presumably, so in fact, they may have made the best decision for themselves after all, which is what capitalism is, and not taking one for the team, which is communism.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:33 pm

and who are you giving credit for the mediation? did the workers take the higher road, or management?
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Juan_Bottom on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:28 pm

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


What's the difference? F*CK DA POLICE!
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby patches70 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:48 pm

The mediation has failed, the liquidation is back on.

Gumbo Bimbo has reportedly been denied the ability to purchase Hostess because of anti-trust laws. That means that the most likely buyer will be a PE firm and PE firm's don't like unions. Thus, the chances of Hostess being purchased and the Union being included has dropped dramatically.

Related, workers are beginning to turn on the Union because the union characterized it to the workers that a buyer would swoop in and purchase the company. Thereby preserving the company and the union. Grim reality is now setting in as the union workers are watching their play go south fast.

There is one other possible ending to this, and considering our politicians it's not too far fetched.
A bailout. The US government hijacking the bankruptcy process so they can preserve the 18K votes by screwing over the company's creditors.
It's happened before......
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:00 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


What's the difference? F*CK DA POLICE!


note: promote the general welfare, not provide welfare
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:31 am

patches70 wrote:The mediation has failed, the liquidation is back on.

Gumbo Bimbo has reportedly been denied the ability to purchase Hostess because of anti-trust laws. That means that the most likely buyer will be a PE firm and PE firm's don't like unions. Thus, the chances of Hostess being purchased and the Union being included has dropped dramatically.

Related, workers are beginning to turn on the Union because the union characterized it to the workers that a buyer would swoop in and purchase the company. Thereby preserving the company and the union. Grim reality is now setting in as the union workers are watching their play go south fast.

There is one other possible ending to this, and considering our politicians it's not too far fetched.
A bailout. The US government hijacking the bankruptcy process so they can preserve the 18K votes by screwing over the company's creditors.
It's happened before......

We can hope, since it will be a while until another election, that we will be spared the nauseating sight of another taxpayer bailout, and the cadaver will be allowed to Rot In Peace.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby HapSmo19 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:15 am

That would be true irony, right?: the O'blabla admin/left clamping down on junkfood and "promoting public health" while bailing out the twinkie mine at the same time?
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby patches70 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:10 am

Dukasaur wrote:
patches70 wrote:The mediation has failed, the liquidation is back on.

Gumbo Bimbo has reportedly been denied the ability to purchase Hostess because of anti-trust laws. That means that the most likely buyer will be a PE firm and PE firm's don't like unions. Thus, the chances of Hostess being purchased and the Union being included has dropped dramatically.

Related, workers are beginning to turn on the Union because the union characterized it to the workers that a buyer would swoop in and purchase the company. Thereby preserving the company and the union. Grim reality is now setting in as the union workers are watching their play go south fast.

There is one other possible ending to this, and considering our politicians it's not too far fetched.
A bailout. The US government hijacking the bankruptcy process so they can preserve the 18K votes by screwing over the company's creditors.
It's happened before......

We can hope, since it will be a while until another election, that we will be spared the nauseating sight of another taxpayer bailout, and the cadaver will be allowed to Rot In Peace.


Yes, we can only hope.

For what it's worth, if my employers one day turned around and said they'd have to cut my pay then I'd just quit. I wouldn't put up with that for a second. A deal is a deal after all.

Hap Smo 10 wrote:That would be true irony, right?: the O'blabla admin/left clamping down on junkfood and "promoting public health" while bailing out the twinkie mine at the same time?


Yes, ironic. Hypocrisy comes to mind as well.

As you all may or may not know, when a company goes into such a process the US Justice Department appoints a trustee. In the case of Hostess this trustee is one Tracy Hope Davis. Davis asked the judge to change Hostesses Chapter 11 to a Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

Under chapter 11 it is the creditors who act as the trustee. Under chapter 7 it is the government appointed trustee who supervises the wind down.

The Justice trustee is standard in all bankruptcies. But in a chapter 11 the trustee simply checks all the books and makes sure nothing criminal is going on.

Under a chapter 7 it will be the government who decides who gets what, much to the chagrin of the creditors. I haven't heard how this went down with the judge yet. But if it goes that route then you could see effectively a stealth nationalization of Hostess.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-1 ... idate.html

A lot of this is just standard procedure and the company will likely just be liquidated, but considering the government track record, stranger things have happened.....
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:33 pm

Dagny Taggart exposes the union...
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:12 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Dagny Taggart exposes the union...

As I've said to you before, Ayn paints a beautiful picture but it is not the real world. The real business world is not populated by Howard Roarks and Dagny Taggarts. The real business world is populated mostly by Wesley Mouches and Owen Kelloggs. They deserve everything the unions give them.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:22 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Dagny Taggart exposes the union...

As I've said to you before, Ayn paints a beautiful picture but it is not the real world. The real business world is not populated by Howard Roarks and Dagny Taggarts. The real business world is populated mostly by Wesley Mouches and Owen Kelloggs. They deserve everything the unions give them.


I might agree, but that doesn't mean that they are. The upper management took 99.9% paycuts to keep the company running, in this case...

I just wanted to share the clip. It's not meant to be taken literally
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:33 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
I just wanted to share the clip. It's not meant to be taken literally


Granted, it's a good scene.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Evil Semp on Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:59 pm

Phatscotty wrote:I might agree, but that doesn't mean that they are. The upper management took 99.9% paycuts to keep the company running, in this case...


When did they take those pay cuts? The cuts were only in effect until Dec. 31. Would the employee pay cuts only be in effect until Dec. 31? Only four executives under the CEO agreed to have their pay cut to $1. Others agreed to have their pay brought back to the level it was at before the raises. Permanent pay cuts for the workers and temporary cuts for the executives. Sounds fair to me.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/hostess.asp
http://radicalruss.com/hostess-ceo-greg ... f-company/
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:11 am

Evil Semp wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I might agree, but that doesn't mean that they are. The upper management took 99.9% paycuts to keep the company running, in this case...


When did they take those pay cuts? The cuts were only in effect until Dec. 31. Would the employee pay cuts only be in effect until Dec. 31? Only four executives under the CEO agreed to have their pay cut to $1. Others agreed to have their pay brought back to the level it was at before the raises. Permanent pay cuts for the workers and temporary cuts for the executives. Sounds fair to me.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/hostess.asp
http://radicalruss.com/hostess-ceo-greg ... f-company/


we've already decided that nothing the management does or did do or could do would be good enough....

Regardless, they took a lot of cuts. They took one for the team. Of course they are not going to make 1$ a year forever (think of all the tax revenue lost! :o ) And of course it's a short term plan. when the company is teetering on the brink of solvency, everything is short term. They didn't even make it to December 31st, so I don't see any point making a issue about "only taking the cuts till dec 31st" and I would put more stock into "now its the other sides turn to take one for the team" The workers did not, so they did not make it to dec 31st

Now none of them have jobs. Now there are no tax revenues being generated
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby AAFitz on Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:30 am

Phatscotty wrote:
Evil Semp wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I might agree, but that doesn't mean that they are. The upper management took 99.9% paycuts to keep the company running, in this case...


When did they take those pay cuts? The cuts were only in effect until Dec. 31. Would the employee pay cuts only be in effect until Dec. 31? Only four executives under the CEO agreed to have their pay cut to $1. Others agreed to have their pay brought back to the level it was at before the raises. Permanent pay cuts for the workers and temporary cuts for the executives. Sounds fair to me.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/hostess.asp
http://radicalruss.com/hostess-ceo-greg ... f-company/


we've already decided that nothing the management does or did do or could do would be good enough....



Actually, it seems management decided on that, not anyone else.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby AAFitz on Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:31 am

Phatscotty wrote:Now none of them have jobs. Now there are no tax revenues being generated


Again with your communist notions, pinkoscotty. :roll:
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:33 am

AAFitz wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Now none of them have jobs. Now there are no tax revenues being generated


Again with your communist notions, pinkoscotty. :roll:


the comment is for the communist, not from one

hurry up and get over whatever bullshit you are on lately. You make lots of good posts and the kind you make lately distract from that
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby AAFitz on Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:34 am

Phatscotty wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Now none of them have jobs. Now there are no tax revenues being generated


Again with your communist notions, pinkoscotty. :roll:


the comment is for the communist, not from one


Choose to believe what you want, but if you truly understood capitalism and communism, you'd understand your notion is communistic at its very core. Mind you, Im not even suggesting that you're wrong per-se, only that the entire idea reeks of communism.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:35 am

AAFitz wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Now none of them have jobs. Now there are no tax revenues being generated


Again with your communist notions, pinkoscotty. :roll:


the comment is for the communist, not from one


Choose to believe what you want, but if you truly understood capitalism and communism, you'd understand your notion is communistic at its very core.


I would be interested to hear you speak on that in more detail
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby AAFitz on Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:37 am

Phatscotty wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Now none of them have jobs. Now there are no tax revenues being generated


Again with your communist notions, pinkoscotty. :roll:


the comment is for the communist, not from one


Choose to believe what you want, but if you truly understood capitalism and communism, you'd understand your notion is communistic at its very core.


I would be interested to hear you speak on that in more detail


Simple. Capitalism is people working to make their situation better for themselves. Communism is everyone working to make the community better.

I could go on and explain in detail, but clearly you dont even understand capitalism on a basic level, so Ill start with the beginners course.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:40 am

AAFitz wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Now none of them have jobs. Now there are no tax revenues being generated


Again with your communist notions, pinkoscotty. :roll:


the comment is for the communist, not from one


Choose to believe what you want, but if you truly understood capitalism and communism, you'd understand your notion is communistic at its very core.


I would be interested to hear you speak on that in more detail


Simple. Capitalism is people working to make their situation better for themselves. Communism is everyone working to make the community better.


How does that relate to this topic? or anything I have said?
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby AAFitz on Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:45 am

Phatscotty wrote:How does that relate to this topic?


You just asked me to explain why your comments were communistic, and I did. You suggesting they should even consider taking one for the team, or lost tax revenue is communistic by its very nature, whereas as capitalists none of those concerns should matter in the decision making process, because capitalism is based on people doing whats best for them individually, which in turn makes everything better overall...

Its awesome that you don't even see it. It should have been obvious to anyone who pretends to be a capitalist and an American as often as you do. It's nice to see your real philosophies are different than your stated ones. Not that its surprising.
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