Unions Shut Down Hostess

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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:53 pm

notyou2 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
notyou2 wrote:Not sure how you see this as a major blow to the economy? Unless a great deal of the product they made was shipped outside of the US.


Um.....the US economy lost 10's of thousands of jobs, IE 10's of thousands of taxpayers.

It's self evident, unless you can show how this is good or neutral for the US economy? I'm betting you won't, probably just call me some names...


If the food that replaces Hostess on the shelf is from the US, there isn't necessarily a loss of jobs, perhaps a shift of jobs from one US place to another, but not necessarily a loss. I hope the junk food void is filled by crap made in Canada and the jobs go here.


So you make a point to comment about how little impact this will have on the US economy, but then in the next post you comment about the hopefully positive impact to Canada's economy?

That makes you a hypocrite. You can't get a positive effect from something you just argued does not have a negative effect.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:54 pm

notyou2 wrote:
I hope the junk food void is filled by crap made in Canada and the jobs go here.


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Postby 2dimes on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:58 pm

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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:59 pm

I guess we're comparing apples to oranges. Life in the U.S. is a lot cheaper. Here in Canada, 28K wouldn't support a family, even in a very cheap neighbourhood. 16K is barely enough for a single person. But since it was just a hypothetical figure, I suppose it doesn't matter.

Phatscotty wrote:Also, i know people who make it a point to make less than 16k a year and goes on cruises, has a twice a week casino addiction, a flat screen in every room, and when she buys her kids a game for PS3, she gets 2 copies of the same game, so they don't have to share. So that's 16k..... you are way off about 28k barely covering the cost of living.

Luckily that is not the point here


The basic point is: whether you're working for pennies or for billions, whether you're a tomato picker in Chile or a transnational banker, every deal has a walk-away point. You can't just keep saying "something is better than nothing" and accepting whatever crap the other side is dishing out. That approach will just get you suckered every time. There is a point, no matter what the job or what the commodity you're dealing over, that you have to say "it's not worth my time" and go look for something better.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:59 pm

Phatscotty wrote:You can't get a positive effect from something you just argued does not have a negative effect.


Economics is not a zero sum game.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby notyou2 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:00 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
notyou2 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
notyou2 wrote:Not sure how you see this as a major blow to the economy? Unless a great deal of the product they made was shipped outside of the US.


Um.....the US economy lost 10's of thousands of jobs, IE 10's of thousands of taxpayers.

It's self evident, unless you can show how this is good or neutral for the US economy? I'm betting you won't, probably just call me some names...


If the food that replaces Hostess on the shelf is from the US, there isn't necessarily a loss of jobs, perhaps a shift of jobs from one US place to another, but not necessarily a loss. I hope the junk food void is filled by crap made in Canada and the jobs go here.


So you make a point to comment about how little impact this will have on the US economy, but then in the next post you comment about the hopefully positive impact to Canada's economy?

That makes you a hypocrite. You can't get a positive effect from something you just argued does not have a negative effect.


I was joking about the jobs to Canada part. Someone else will buy the factories and produce the same thing but non-union.

The part about the food I was serious. The jobs aren't necessarily gone. You're just making a thread to whine about how your country is going to hell in a handbasket thanks to Obama.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby tj755 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:02 pm

Good. Shut down all the places that process fake food crap. Maybe then Americans would not be so fat!
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:03 pm

Dukasaur wrote:I guess we're comparing apples to oranges. Life in the U.S. is a lot cheaper. Here in Canada, 28K wouldn't support a family, even in a very cheap neighbourhood. 16K is barely enough for a single person. But since it was just a hypothetical figure, I suppose it doesn't matter.

Phatscotty wrote:Also, i know people who make it a point to make less than 16k a year and goes on cruises, has a twice a week casino addiction, a flat screen in every room, and when she buys her kids a game for PS3, she gets 2 copies of the same game, so they don't have to share. So that's 16k..... you are way off about 28k barely covering the cost of living.

Luckily that is not the point here


The basic point is: whether you're working for pennies or for billions, whether you're a tomato picker in Chile or a transnational banker, every deal has a walk-away point. You can't just keep saying "something is better than nothing" and accepting whatever crap the other side is dishing out. That approach will just get you suckered every time. There is a point, no matter what the job or what the commodity you're dealing over, that you have to say "it's not worth my time" and go look for something better.


Why not? You think it's more likely these people who walked off the job are going to find another job that pays more, or less?

I am very surprised by your attitudes on this one. "meh, they're just jobs...."

I have been giving up my annual cost of living increases just to hold on to my health insurance since 2003.....
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:14 pm

In all seriousness I'm not downplaying the loss of jobs. I just think that hanging onto an inefficient industry is bad for everyone in the long run.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:15 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:I guess we're comparing apples to oranges. Life in the U.S. is a lot cheaper. Here in Canada, 28K wouldn't support a family, even in a very cheap neighbourhood. 16K is barely enough for a single person. But since it was just a hypothetical figure, I suppose it doesn't matter.

Phatscotty wrote:Also, i know people who make it a point to make less than 16k a year and goes on cruises, has a twice a week casino addiction, a flat screen in every room, and when she buys her kids a game for PS3, she gets 2 copies of the same game, so they don't have to share. So that's 16k..... you are way off about 28k barely covering the cost of living.

Luckily that is not the point here


The basic point is: whether you're working for pennies or for billions, whether you're a tomato picker in Chile or a transnational banker, every deal has a walk-away point. You can't just keep saying "something is better than nothing" and accepting whatever crap the other side is dishing out. That approach will just get you suckered every time. There is a point, no matter what the job or what the commodity you're dealing over, that you have to say "it's not worth my time" and go look for something better.


Why not? You think it's more likely these people who walked off the job are going to find another job that pays more, or less?

I am very surprised by your attitudes on this one. "meh, they're just jobs...."

I have been giving up my annual cost of living increases just to hold on to my health insurance since 2003.....

And I'm surprised that, considering you keep hinting you're a commodities broker or something like that, that you don't immediately grasp the point that every deal has a walk-away point.

Your time is a value. Giving it away too cheaply is giving away your life. What will it avail someone if they bust their ass for 40 years in a dead-end job, and then wake up one day, old and tired and arthritic, and realize they don't own a pot to piss in or, more relevantly, an RSP?

Do I know whether these people will get better jobs? No. I'm guessing some will and some won't. Very clearly most of them, from their own viewpoint which is closer to the scene than yours or mine, have decided they're better off not investing any more time in this company. I suspect some of them are married women, and after consulting with their husbands, they've decided their lifestyle will be better served by staying home and playing housewife. I suspect others will try going to school for a while and shooting for a real career instead of a line job. And yeah, for quite a few of them, it may have been the wrong choice, but it's their choice to make.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:16 pm

tj755 wrote:Good. Shut down all the places that process fake food crap. Maybe then Americans would not be so fat!


We are phat because we have mastered food production and distribution, and produce more than we need.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why so many people think that is a bad thing. Unless I shrug it off as "they just hate America, and attack without thought like barbarians"

Our abundance of food and choices about what we eat are good things, you just need to let people be accountable for their own actions and let them sleep in the beds they make for themselves.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:20 pm

Phatscotty wrote:For the life of me, I cannot understand why so many people think that is a bad thing. Unless I shrug it off as "they just hate America, and attack without thought like barbarians"

Our food situation is a good thing


Go outside of America and you'll see that there are 1.3 billion people living on the equivalent of less than $1.25 per day, and nearly one billion people living in hunger. America could basically unilaterally end the world's food shortage if it desired to.

Our food situation is barbaric.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:22 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
tj755 wrote:Good. Shut down all the places that process fake food crap. Maybe then Americans would not be so fat!


We are phat because we have mastered food production and distribution, and produce more than we need.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why so many people think that is a bad thing. Unless I shrug it off as "they just hate America, and attack without thought like barbarians"

Our abundance of food and choices about what we eat are good things, you just need to let people be accountable for their own actions and let them sleep in the beds they make for themselves.


This is a good point. Obesity can unfortunately be a side effect of prosperity.
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby MegaProphet on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:24 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
tj755 wrote:Good. Shut down all the places that process fake food crap. Maybe then Americans would not be so fat!


We are phat because we have mastered food production and distribution, and produce more than we need.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why so many people think that is a bad thing. Unless I shrug it off as "they just hate America, and attack without thought like barbarians"

Our abundance of food and choices about what we eat are good things, you just need to let people be accountable for their own actions and let them sleep in the beds they make for themselves.

It's only really a bad thing because it leads to an increased chance of heart disease
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Re: Unions Shut Down Hostess

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:25 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:For the life of me, I cannot understand why so many people think that is a bad thing. Unless I shrug it off as "they just hate America, and attack without thought like barbarians"

Our food situation is a good thing


Go outside of America and you'll see that there are 1.3 billion people living on the equivalent of less than $1.25 per day, and nearly one billion people living in hunger. America could basically unilaterally end the world's food shortage if it desired to.

Our food situation is barbaric.


$1.25 a day can buy a ton of food in many of those countries, so your guilt trip is misleading.

But let's go down your path. How would that work? You think it would be a good idea to feed the world, but is it actually possible? without breaking the very market that provided the surplus in the first place?
Last edited by Phatscotty on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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