I always thought the great challenge to our definition of personhood and consciousness would come from creating general Artificial Intelligence, but maybe we'll have to deal with Neanderthals first (turns out they might be smarter than us, we don't really know)
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:20 am
by AndyDufresne
The NOVA program on PBS had a nice episode on "Decoding Neanderthals:"
If you were a woman, would you agree to bear the neanderthal child?
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:56 am
by Neoteny
Would you agree to Neanderthal the bear child?
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:01 am
by thegreekdog
In an effort to make every thread an abortion thread, would there be a provision of the agreement indicating that the woman in question could not abort the baby? If so, would that trump her right to privacy?
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:16 pm
by AndyDufresne
Are there already not such agreements for surrogate mothers who willfully give up such rights?
--Andy
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:04 pm
by thegreekdog
AndyDufresne wrote:Are there already not such agreements for surrogate mothers who willfully give up such rights?
--Andy
Good question and one I don't know the answer to.
However, I'm pretty sure contractual language cannot remove constitutional rights.
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:15 pm
by AndyDufresne
You are right I think you can't remove constitutional rights, but cannot someone waive their rights (e.g. a right to a jury trial, to remain silent, etc). I think that is where the meat is, you always still have your rights, but you can choose when to waive them. But I am not the lawyer, you are, so you should tell me. Ha.
--Andy
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:19 pm
by Timminz
Now I'm no lawyer, but I would assume that if a surrogate were to have an abortion, then she would be in breach of contract, and would therefore not get paid.
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:54 pm
by thegreekdog
Timminz wrote:Now I'm no lawyer, but I would assume that if a surrogate were to have an abortion, then she would be in breach of contract, and would therefore not get paid.
YES! That is the answer.
Also, at this point, I'm out of law school and have done nothing but tax law for almost a decade... so my other legal skills are novice at best.
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:57 pm
by BigBallinStalin
I smell a movie. Neanderthal gets cloned, learns the ways of our people, is experimented on, escapes, declares, "I NEVER WANTED TO BE RESURRECTED!!! AAARRRGGHHHH!!!", then he jumps off a building.
Unfortunately, he lands on President Obama, who is also crushed to a pulp. The movie was decent until it offended 30% of the poli. cheerleaders of the US. About 30% found that amusing, and 40% didn't care, but no one cares about them.
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:59 pm
by thegreekdog
BigBallinStalin wrote:I smell a movie. Neanderthal gets cloned, learns the ways of our people, is experimented on, escapes, declares, "I NEVER WANTED TO BE RESURRECTED!!! AAARRRGGHHHH!!!", then he jumps off a building.
Unfortunately, he lands on President Obama, who is also crushed to a pulp. The movie was decent until it offended 30% of the poli. cheerleaders of the US. About 30% found that amusing, and 40% didn't care, but no one cares about them.
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:10 pm
by BigBallinStalin
Something darker and actually funny.
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:14 pm
by DoomYoshi
AndyDufresne wrote:The NOVA program on PBS had a nice episode on "Decoding Neanderthals:"
One of the most disappointing shows ever. After how ever many years and presumably 100s of episodes, there have been like 2 good ones. I only know of one, and I am assuming there is another one.
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:17 pm
by AndyDufresne
BigBallinStalin wrote:Something darker and actually funny.
Once the Neanderthal lobby gets working those depictions will be considered as insensitive as blackface is considered today.
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:25 pm
by BigBallinStalin
Can't joke about rape, can't joke about neanderthals. What the f*ck.
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:31 pm
by AndyDufresne
Haggis_McMutton wrote:Once the Neanderthal lobby gets working those depictions will be considered as insensitive as blackface is considered today.
It has already started. The NOVA special I linked to has scientists discussing the popular images of Neanderthals. It is only a stones throw away from a Super PAC methinks.
--Andy
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:40 pm
by thegreekdog
AndyDufresne wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Something darker and actually funny.
I always thought the great challenge to our definition of personhood and consciousness would come from creating general Artificial Intelligence, but maybe we'll have to deal with Neanderthals first (turns out they might be smarter than us, we don't really know)
Smarter and stronger, iirc. Just think, once the Neanderthal population becomes large enough, it'll galvanize H. sapiens to unite and instead of fighting amongst the species we can actually fight outside the species. Yay!
-TG
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:06 pm
by notyou2
Neanderthalism is alive and well throughout the globe.
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:42 pm
by Haggis_McMutton
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:
Haggis_McMutton wrote:I'm talking about synthetic biologist George Church, of course.
I always thought the great challenge to our definition of personhood and consciousness would come from creating general Artificial Intelligence, but maybe we'll have to deal with Neanderthals first (turns out they might be smarter than us, we don't really know)
Smarter and stronger, iirc. Just think, once the Neanderthal population becomes large enough, it'll galvanize H. sapiens to unite and instead of fighting amongst the species we can actually fight outside the species. Yay!
-TG
So, if they're smarter and stronger how the hell were we the ones to survive? luck?
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:13 pm
by notyou2
Haggis_McMutton wrote:
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:
Haggis_McMutton wrote:I'm talking about synthetic biologist George Church, of course.
I always thought the great challenge to our definition of personhood and consciousness would come from creating general Artificial Intelligence, but maybe we'll have to deal with Neanderthals first (turns out they might be smarter than us, we don't really know)
Smarter and stronger, iirc. Just think, once the Neanderthal population becomes large enough, it'll galvanize H. sapiens to unite and instead of fighting amongst the species we can actually fight outside the species. Yay!
-TG
So, if they're smarter and stronger how the hell were we the ones to survive? luck?
We don't taste as good to the dinosaurs.
Re: Church wants to clone Neanderthals
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:43 pm
by TA1LGUNN3R
Haggis_McMutton wrote:
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:
Haggis_McMutton wrote:I'm talking about synthetic biologist George Church, of course.
I always thought the great challenge to our definition of personhood and consciousness would come from creating general Artificial Intelligence, but maybe we'll have to deal with Neanderthals first (turns out they might be smarter than us, we don't really know)
Smarter and stronger, iirc. Just think, once the Neanderthal population becomes large enough, it'll galvanize H. sapiens to unite and instead of fighting amongst the species we can actually fight outside the species. Yay!
-TG
So, if they're smarter and stronger how the hell were we the ones to survive? luck?
I remember reading a couple of articles a few years ago that theorized, from what I recall, that (1) some pops. interbred (this is where green eyes and blonde haired northern europeans are supposed to come from-- like me) and/or (2) H. sapiens were more fertile, producing more offspring on a regular basis. Neanderthals had lower birth rates and longer gestation periods.
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:01 am
Ha.
