Friendly mentally challenged people.

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Re: Friendly mentally challenged people.

Postby ManBungalow on Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:51 am

To help illustrate some of the themes in this thread by example:

There was this one time when I was about 14, sat in a class at school.

One of the girls in said class expressed an interest in becoming a doctor in later life - I forget the context, if any - and everything stopped. The teacher tried to explain, in the nicest way he could, that she wasn't cut out to be a doctor.

The girl started crying and promptly left the room.

Was the teacher in the wrong?

For some reason, a teacher having that sort of input is frowned upon (he was quite traditional, I should add) - "anyone with a goal can achieve it yadayadayada", but I think it's valuable.

I suppose that teacher has seen hundreds of students pass through the school, and knows which, ultimately, ended up in medicine. Or towards medicine. So it's possible to identify trends in the characteristics of such people. And therefore grouping individual students/people into a sort of algorithm.
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Re: Friendly mentally challenged people.

Postby AAFitz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:46 am

john9blue wrote:
AAFitz wrote:I am still at the point in my life where I know, no matter what he won, Id have insured that he got his proper winnings, and I hope that never changes.


it's very easy to say this hypothetically on an anonymous online forum. but i think everyone has their breaking point, a certain amount of money where they would try to scam the guy out of his tickets just so they could get it instead.


Well, some of us hold our Christian Values higher than others I guess. Its sad to see an actual believer, that doesn't even trust himself.
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Re: Friendly mentally challenged people.

Postby AAFitz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:52 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
john9blue wrote:
AAFitz wrote:I am still at the point in my life where I know, no matter what he won, Id have insured that he got his proper winnings, and I hope that never changes.


it's very easy to say this hypothetically on an anonymous online forum. but i think everyone has their breaking point, a certain amount of money where they would try to scam the guy out of his tickets just so they could get it instead.


What is the price of morally good action?


Is there a price at which anyone would commit an improper act (e.g. AAFitz's example)?


Well, no doubt, but I don't think its the number that is the biggest determinant but the combination of factors.

I would love a million dollars, but if I took it from that kid, I know I could never, ever have any respect for myself, so while Im sure there would be a moment of wtf do I do, one that absolutely could turn out unexpectedly, I have been running my own business with ample opportunities to take advantage of people, and simply don't do it. Thats not to say that every decision is made with a halo, but when it comes to individuals, whats fair is whats fair, and if you break that code, there's really no way to have any self respect, and if you lose that, whats the point of anything.

In any case, I know right now I am in that place, but I think it was clear, I fully accept that in the future, you never know.
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Re: Friendly mentally challenged people.

Postby AAFitz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:00 am

ManBungalow wrote:To help illustrate some of the themes in this thread by example:

There was this one time when I was about 14, sat in a class at school.

One of the girls in said class expressed an interest in becoming a doctor in later life - I forget the context, if any - and everything stopped. The teacher tried to explain, in the nicest way he could, that she wasn't cut out to be a doctor.

The girl started crying and promptly left the room.

Was the teacher in the wrong?

For some reason, a teacher having that sort of input is frowned upon (he was quite traditional, I should add) - "anyone with a goal can achieve it yadayadayada", but I think it's valuable.

I suppose that teacher has seen hundreds of students pass through the school, and knows which, ultimately, ended up in medicine. Or towards medicine. So it's possible to identify trends in the characteristics of such people. And therefore grouping individual students/people into a sort of algorithm.


The problem is success is a difficult thing to predict. While some seem destined for success from birth, its the really successful ones that tend to surprise everyone, and exceed all expectations.

Being realistic is important, and anyone, with an unobtainable goal cannot achieve it, but its impossible to know who will achieve what. If the girl went to the guidance councilor and asked what field she should consider pursuing, obviously such concerns should be brought up, but honestly, that teacher saying that was probably more prompted by jealousy of the girls ambition, and possibly contempt, than it was out of trying to help, but you never know.
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Re: Friendly mentally challenged people.

Postby thegreekdog on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:21 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
new guy1 wrote:Well I dont know if you guys are still telling stories, but at my high school, we have a life skills class and as part of it, all the mentally challenged kids go and get the recycle from the class rooms, which I find a little demeaning, but back to the story, there was one who every time he walked into a classroom of mine and saw me, he would wave to me and I'd wave back. Thought I'd share that.


I generally find your post agreeable, but regarding the underlined:

Why is it demeaning?


What if the mentally challenged individuals were not mentally challenged, but instead were black? Is that demeaning?


Let's also assume that (a) these kids are not being coerced into that job, and (b) they get paid or receive compensation which they value more than doing something else at that time (i.e. wage > opportunity cost).

Then, it's not demeaning. Sure, we live in a world of constraints, so earning income is necessary for many individuals. But what's demeaning about this job?

(I'm speculating, but why do some people feel some sort of guilt about it? Those who view that work as demeaning seem to exhibit "the white's man burden"--It's as if the 'demeaners' are saying, "these kids should not have these jobs! Let me lay the stones for their proper path for I know best").


I agree with everything you said if your assumption is correct. But I got the impression that these students were not paid and it was "part of the learning experience" or some such nonsense. It's highly offensive in that context. If the students are paid, then I retract my statement.
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Re: Friendly mentally challenged people.

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:57 am

AAFitz wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
john9blue wrote:
AAFitz wrote:I am still at the point in my life where I know, no matter what he won, Id have insured that he got his proper winnings, and I hope that never changes.


it's very easy to say this hypothetically on an anonymous online forum. but i think everyone has their breaking point, a certain amount of money where they would try to scam the guy out of his tickets just so they could get it instead.


What is the price of morally good action?


Is there a price at which anyone would commit an improper act (e.g. AAFitz's example)?


Well, no doubt, but I don't think its the number that is the biggest determinant but the combination of factors.

I would love a million dollars, but if I took it from that kid, I know I could never, ever have any respect for myself, so while Im sure there would be a moment of wtf do I do, one that absolutely could turn out unexpectedly, I have been running my own business with ample opportunities to take advantage of people, and simply don't do it. Thats not to say that every decision is made with a halo, but when it comes to individuals, whats fair is whats fair, and if you break that code, there's really no way to have any self respect, and if you lose that, whats the point of anything.

In any case, I know right now I am in that place, but I think it was clear, I fully accept that in the future, you never know.


How about $900,000,000?
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Re: Friendly mentally challenged people.

Postby KoolBak on Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:03 pm

I would guess that helping the dude out and assuring that he got his rightful winnings would incur some sort of reciprocity on the dude's behalf....but even if it didn't, doing the right thing is....well...just the right thing to do. It is not the "christian" thing to do, it's the RIGHT thing to do.....basic morals have been around longer than 2000 years.....lol

A good example - there was a little old man that lived next to me; for the last 20 years I helped him out, mowed his lawn, assisted with projects.....was a friend as he had few. He passed away a year ago - his daughter came in from out of town to manage the estate. She came by and handed me the keys to his car and said "Daddy wanted (your son) to have this".....so cool. My 16 year old has a nice, economical, relatively new car :D

And as to the title of the thread....there's a dude that lives near my youngest's school and is always out walking / hanging out. He is special.....many of the parents complain / worry about him......he is super nice, happy, harmless.....I've become his friend and into'ed him to many of the naysayers at school.....amazing how suspicious people are....
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Postby 2dimes on Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:47 pm

KoolBak wrote: It is not the "christian" thing to do, it's the RIGHT thing to do.....basic morals have been around longer than 2000 years.....lol


This is absolutely true. I'm sorry I brought "Christian" into the thread but I just felt a strong need to mention the fact that. Yeshua's teachings are all about the right thing being the right thing, even when it makes no sense. "Love your enemy?" Come one man!
They were, are and allways will be things for everyone, not just the people that go to a church to be good.

I'm not saying no good people go to church but I have seen some really messed up things come from people that lead churches. Some of them were actually really great guys that I still feel bad for because they just made mistakes. Which leads me to this.

Its sad to see an actual believer, that doesn't even trust himself.


Sort of but the fact is. I do desire greatly to do the right thing. I also have to be honest at least with myself that I'm human.
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AAFitz wrote:Well, no doubt, but I don't think its the number that is the biggest determinant but the combination of factors.

I would love a million dollars, but if I took it from that kid, I know I could never, ever have any respect for myself, so while Im sure there would be a moment of wtf do I do, one that absolutely could turn out unexpectedly, I have been running my own business with ample opportunities to take advantage of people, and simply don't do it. Thats not to say that every decision is made with a halo, but when it comes to individuals, whats fair is whats fair, and if you break that code, there's really no way to have any self respect, and if you lose that, whats the point of anything.

In any case, I know right now I am in that place, but I think it was clear, I fully accept that in the future, you never know.


This is right, regardless of a person's beliefs. It's highley admirable. I believe most people aspire to act like that but It makes no logical sense.

Everything in our media and society place getting money and possibly giving things to your offspring if "that bitch didn't take them away and is spending to much on clothes and whoring around." And as the number gets bigger, it makes it more difficult to avoid, "Well... what if? Maybe I could take just some.." Etc. all kinds of temptations.

Thread jack to dead beat dads. Most of those guys are not trying to hurt their own kids but they justify not sending them their "hard earned money" because they percieve being wronged by the kid's mother.

Sorry got to do another quote I believe is true regardless of what we believe, even though I know it as a bible statement. However to help with my point that it doesn't belong to "Christians" or any church, check out the link I found for it.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... at+you+sow
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Postby 2dimes on Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:09 pm

KoolBak wrote:And as to the title of the thread....there's a dude that lives near my youngest's school and is always out walking / hanging out. He is special.....many of the parents complain / worry about him......he is super nice, happy, harmless.....I've become his friend and into'ed him to many of the naysayers at school.....amazing how suspicious people are....

Yeah, it's tough in the modern Urban enviroment. You watch the news and everyone's getting murdered and robbed all over the place.

This guy that caused the start of the thread. Initially I was going to ignore him and mind my own business. I'm so glad I let my guard down and interacted with him. He was just being friendly and happy.

It was in the East side of town where my parents live and very near streets that have gangs hookers and some drug trade.

My mom was being whiny and even said after we left. "Why were you doing that? You shouldn't be talking to strangers. What if he took out a knife and stabbed us?" I told her, "He was trying to be friendly. He's just got metal issues like you. Except he's happy, relax."

My mom by the way is normal for the most part but has issues with depression/anxiety attacks. She actually changed her opinion of what I was doing when I explained it to her that way.
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Re: Friendly mentally challenged people.

Postby ghostly447 on Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:59 pm

With the whole debate on if you could give the man his winnings, etc, I am surprised that I did not once come across the word "Karma". Im new to the forums so I dont know if the posters in here just dont believe in such a thing, or what, but personally I do. So with that said, a large sum would be difficult to resist, but I believe that the right thing is always the answer. Honestly, maybe believing there is Karma is my mistake because not too much good has come out of me working tirelessly to help friends with their high school anxiety, etc, where they feel like they just arent worth it, etc and I end up talking to them. Back on track. Though it would be difficult to resist, I just feel I would be a hypocrite to take it because I only go by a couple rules. Respect, and Anti-Hypocracy. So to go against either (must less, by taking the money, both) would, in my opinion, break the only 2 real moral codes I live by, and that is not something I look to do.

On a related note, the life styles class at my school has quite a few friendly people that I occasionally talk to when I see them in the halls, and I had the (I say funny because it put the biggest smile on my face) opportunity to actually give one of them a high five as I passed them on a walkway. I dont see them as any different, just slightly less intellectual which does not effect their emotion (besides giving them a nice smile all the time). And I dont mean "Them" as in, lets classify them! I mean it as in the mentally challenged I have met in the past.
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Re:

Postby AAFitz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:05 pm

2dimes wrote:
KoolBak wrote: It is not the "christian" thing to do, it's the RIGHT thing to do.....basic morals have been around longer than 2000 years.....lol


This is absolutely true. I'm sorry I brought "Christian" into the thread but I just felt a strong need to mention the fact that. Yeshua's teachings are all about the right thing being the right thing, even when it makes no sense. "Love your enemy?" Come one man!
They were, are and allways will be things for everyone, not just the people that go to a church to be good.

I'm not saying no good people go to church but I have seen some really messed up things come from people that lead churches. Some of them were actually really great guys that I still feel bad for because they just made mistakes. Which leads me to this.

Its sad to see an actual believer, that doesn't even trust himself.


Sort of but the fact is. I do desire greatly to do the right thing. I also have to be honest at least with myself that I'm human.
Insert corney song that can say things better than I can.
Human League wrote: I'm only human of flesh and blood I'm made... Human, born to make mistakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH2X5PolerA

AAFitz wrote:Well, no doubt, but I don't think its the number that is the biggest determinant but the combination of factors.

I would love a million dollars, but if I took it from that kid, I know I could never, ever have any respect for myself, so while Im sure there would be a moment of wtf do I do, one that absolutely could turn out unexpectedly, I have been running my own business with ample opportunities to take advantage of people, and simply don't do it. Thats not to say that every decision is made with a halo, but when it comes to individuals, whats fair is whats fair, and if you break that code, there's really no way to have any self respect, and if you lose that, whats the point of anything.

In any case, I know right now I am in that place, but I think it was clear, I fully accept that in the future, you never know.


This is right, regardless of a person's beliefs. It's highley admirable. I believe most people aspire to act like that but It makes no logical sense.

Everything in our media and society place getting money and possibly giving things to your offspring if "that bitch didn't take them away and is spending to much on clothes and whoring around." And as the number gets bigger, it makes it more difficult to avoid, "Well... what if? Maybe I could take just some.." Etc. all kinds of temptations.

Thread jack to dead beat dads. Most of those guys are not trying to hurt their own kids but they justify not sending them their "hard earned money" because they percieve being wronged by the kid's mother.

Sorry got to do another quote I believe is true regardless of what we believe, even though I know it as a bible statement. However to help with my point that it doesn't belong to "Christians" or any church, check out the link I found for it.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... at+you+sow


Not doing enough, is completely different from stealing except at the more extreme levels. We all fail ones we love in some way, but that doesnt mean we would all go out and rip of a kid just because they were ...differently abled.

Though that does present an interesting dilemma...at what point is it ok to take advantage of someone? Personally, I dont think it ever is, but I know that is as common a belief as it should be. I just happen to believe in fair business practices with everyone on board. I feel that if you start cheating people, even a little, you have changed your entire job to that of thief, and might as well start breaking into houses and stealing stuff.

I realize many dont care where the money comes from at all, and Ive certainly met enough to know thats true, but hopefully the majority would stop at stealing lottery money from a guy who had a birth defect or injury, just because they could.
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Postby 2dimes on Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:50 pm

I am really enjoying your posts today.

I think not doing enough if it's easy and wouldn't take much is kind of like taking advantage of someone or stealing money or even an object.

Failing our loved ones, friends or just aquantances is not the same because you probably wanted to help but just couldn't for whatever reason. That's not the same choice.

As far as "many don't care where the money comes from..." I think and have heard of some that are just plain bad people. My buddy was dating a girl. Her uncle beat his dad to death. I don't know if the death part was accidental since the father was frail and elderly. My buddy was more appalled then me asking, "Don't you think that's messed up. Would you do that?" and his point is valid. What kind of guy hits his frail old parent? I was and kind of less right now while typing it out wondering if the parenting was a factor. Still if the dad was that old, there must have been issues for the son to do that. I'm getting nowhere and sorry.

Point there's some reall bad people that would harm those they should charish. An aquaintence or stranger has no chance with that sort of person.
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Re: Friendly mentally challenged people.

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:30 pm

ghostly447 wrote:With the whole debate on if you could give the man his winnings, etc, I am surprised that I did not once come across the word "Karma". Im new to the forums so I dont know if the posters in here just dont believe in such a thing, or what, but personally I do. So with that said, a large sum would be difficult to resist, but I believe that the right thing is always the answer. Honestly, maybe believing there is Karma is my mistake because not too much good has come out of me working tirelessly to help friends with their high school anxiety, etc, where they feel like they just arent worth it, etc and I end up talking to them. Back on track. Though it would be difficult to resist, I just feel I would be a hypocrite to take it because I only go by a couple rules. Respect, and Anti-Hypocracy. So to go against either (must less, by taking the money, both) would, in my opinion, break the only 2 real moral codes I live by, and that is not something I look to do.

On a related note, the life styles class at my school has quite a few friendly people that I occasionally talk to when I see them in the halls, and I had the (I say funny because it put the biggest smile on my face) opportunity to actually give one of them a high five as I passed them on a walkway. I dont see them as any different, just slightly less intellectual which does not effect their emotion (besides giving them a nice smile all the time). And I dont mean "Them" as in, lets classify them! I mean it as in the mentally challenged I have met in the past.


The rule of Hypos is a dangerous thing. :P

I don't believe in karma because it's a concept which is fueled by your own selective perception, or rather confirmation bias. Nevertheless, karma acts as a self-regulating enforcer which probably induces good moral behavior for the user on average. If that's the case, then karma is fine with me.
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Re: Re:

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:34 pm

AAFitz wrote:
Not doing enough, is completely different from stealing except at the more extreme levels. We all fail ones we love in some way, but that doesnt mean we would all go out and rip of a kid just because they were ...differently abled.

Though that does present an interesting dilemma...at what point is it ok to take advantage of someone?



WHEN TEHY'RE DRUNK!!!

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Postby 2dimes on Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:44 pm

Actual Karma (sp?) is pretty complex and would take a westerner years to start thinking in a way that would let them start to understand it...
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