Godlike Forsight

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Rock the vote!

God is a dickhead.
0
No votes
God is a mysterious, all-loving, omniscient, all-powerful, dickhead.
1
5%
I'm offended! My beliefs! My beliefs! OHHH THE AGONIZING CONTRADICTIONS!!!!
3
14%
Get another God; this one's broken.
2
9%
I'm atheist.
5
23%
I'm agnostic.
6
27%
I'm a kitten.
3
14%
I'm a theist.
2
9%
 
Total votes : 22

Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby _sabotage_ on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:21 pm

AAFitz wrote:I just recently had a Cop tell me most of the people he had to deal with weren't so much criminals, as mentally ill. Hes a Grand olde party, AR15 owning republican to the core but had no problem pointing out that Reagan's dismantling of the mental ill infrastructure for a good portion of our societies criminal problems.

And while off topic, how sane is a guy suggesting that insurance companies provide care for mentally ill people. I mean, call me crazy, but how the f*ck is a crazy person who needs treatment, going to get a job to pay for insurance, to get treatment so he can get a job so he can get insurance to pay for treatment so he can get a job.

Its not so much crazy, as utterly fucking stupid....or in that case, callous, uncaring, and by definition un-Christian.


That's just half the problem, the other half is how many people we call crazy these days. We've upped the sales pitch on insanity. We now make it so easy to be insane, and profitable. I had an Indian friend in uni in Kansas, he came back with ADD and a prescription that cost $150 a month in Kansas. My sister never took drugs and now they have her hooked on some pill. To see people comparing their pills in the states might be like how people compare fighting cocks in Thailand. I've seen all kinds of drug addicts and those pill poppers are on some funky shit. How the f*ck do we expect people to be sane after telling them they crazy and provide them with a daily mind altering drug?
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Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby AAFitz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:25 pm

_sabotage_ wrote:
AAFitz wrote:I just recently had a Cop tell me most of the people he had to deal with weren't so much criminals, as mentally ill. Hes a Grand olde party, AR15 owning republican to the core but had no problem pointing out that Reagan's dismantling of the mental ill infrastructure for a good portion of our societies criminal problems.

And while off topic, how sane is a guy suggesting that insurance companies provide care for mentally ill people. I mean, call me crazy, but how the f*ck is a crazy person who needs treatment, going to get a job to pay for insurance, to get treatment so he can get a job so he can get insurance to pay for treatment so he can get a job.

Its not so much crazy, as utterly fucking stupid....or in that case, callous, uncaring, and by definition un-Christian.


That's just half the problem, the other half is how many people we call crazy these days. We've upped the sales pitch on insanity. We now make it so easy to be insane, and profitable. I had an Indian friend in uni in Kansas, he came back with ADD and a prescription that cost $150 a month in Kansas. My sister never took drugs and now they have her hooked on some pill. To see people comparing their pills in the states might be like how people compare fighting cocks in Thailand. I've seen all kinds of drug addicts and those pill poppers are on some funky shit. How the f*ck do we expect people to be sane after telling them they crazy and provide them with a daily mind altering drug?


By billing them?

Sorry..I agree, insanity for some is just an escape from actually getting a job and working. Certainly, just not working can cause depression and lead to the spiral of other mental health problems, but there absolutely a number of people who are crazy-by-lazy (as far as I know I just coined this diagnosis) and while treating them is still probably better, the lazyness is more difficult to treat, as in you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink(I think I coined that one too?)
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Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:31 pm

_sabotage_ wrote:How is providing a chance at a decent life to the worst among us mean that the rest of us will suffer? I think you have looked at one too many charts.

The Rand Drug Policy Research Center study concluded that $3 billion should be switched from federal and local law enforcement to treatment. The report said that treatment is the cheapest way to cut drug use, stating that drug treatment is twenty-three times more effective than the supply-side "war on drugs".[132]

23 times more effective. And yet, we did the exact opposite. Instead of helping the worst off in society, drug addicts who have reached the point where they recognize and seek treatment, we gave Columbia the money to buy weapons from us to fight the war on drugs. We thereby fucked up Columbia, making those in the country worse than before. We set up Mobotu in the Congo and fucked up that region and made the worse off worse. A fence is only as strong as its weakest link. We can continue to put people in prison so that we can provide comfy jobs for police or we can try to bring equality into the equation. If we have more or less the same then crime will more or less disappear. Instead we feed our rich even more and kick our poor further into the muck. If we don't improve the lives of the worst off, whose do we improve?


Whoa, whoa, whoa. So we've shifted subjects? What exactly do you want to discuss?
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Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:34 pm

AAFitz wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Self-sacrificing a society's/group's wealth and transferring it to another group some place far away won't improve that group in the long-run.


Letting that group die will not improve that group in the long run either.


I've already explained how the alternative is not the best choice due to the unintended consequences... In this sense, you are advocating for "letting" them be harmed by well-intended yet disastrous plans.


No, I am advocating saving them from imminent death, and you are advocating letting them die, for some futuristic pipe dreamed utopia, where greed solves all problems through a magic free market.

Furthermore, I am absolutely suggesting non-disastrous plans be used.

Right now, we produce enough food to feed 9 billion people. There are only 7ish. It is our current plans that are disastrous, not those that will save them.

You are just assuming I am talking about an infinite charitable state for some ridiculous reason, but as a business owner, and a capitalist, I understand human nature at its basic level, and know full well, that such a system can never work. However, the current one means millions of suffering, starving children as well, so as a Christian, one is failing their teachings, by not doing more to prevent that, every single day.


Charitable organizations are a part of the free market, so no qualms there.
You can advocate as much as you want, and that's fine so long as you don't go blundering into it with ill-gotten goods (tax revenue).


You're concerned about starvation. What best alleviates poverty in the long-run? When people become wealthier, less of them starve, so what is the "origin of wealth"?
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Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby AAFitz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:36 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
_sabotage_ wrote:How is providing a chance at a decent life to the worst among us mean that the rest of us will suffer? I think you have looked at one too many charts.

The Rand Drug Policy Research Center study concluded that $3 billion should be switched from federal and local law enforcement to treatment. The report said that treatment is the cheapest way to cut drug use, stating that drug treatment is twenty-three times more effective than the supply-side "war on drugs".[132]

23 times more effective. And yet, we did the exact opposite. Instead of helping the worst off in society, drug addicts who have reached the point where they recognize and seek treatment, we gave Columbia the money to buy weapons from us to fight the war on drugs. We thereby fucked up Columbia, making those in the country worse than before. We set up Mobotu in the Congo and fucked up that region and made the worse off worse. A fence is only as strong as its weakest link. We can continue to put people in prison so that we can provide comfy jobs for police or we can try to bring equality into the equation. If we have more or less the same then crime will more or less disappear. Instead we feed our rich even more and kick our poor further into the muck. If we don't improve the lives of the worst off, whose do we improve?


Whoa, whoa, whoa. So we've shifted subjects? What exactly do you want to discuss?


My bad on that one for mentioning health care, I meant it as a related topic.
Maybe bold on your part to be the one mentioning going off topic, but...its your thread...and you're absolutely right in this case.
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Postby 2dimes on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:38 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:Whoa, whoa, whoa. So we've shifted subjects? What exactly do you want to discuss?

MONKEYS!!

Ok everyone 32 pages about monkeys before player comes back. Go!
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Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby AAFitz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:38 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Self-sacrificing a society's/group's wealth and transferring it to another group some place far away won't improve that group in the long-run.


Letting that group die will not improve that group in the long run either.


I've already explained how the alternative is not the best choice due to the unintended consequences... In this sense, you are advocating for "letting" them be harmed by well-intended yet disastrous plans.


No, I am advocating saving them from imminent death, and you are advocating letting them die, for some futuristic pipe dreamed utopia, where greed solves all problems through a magic free market.

Furthermore, I am absolutely suggesting non-disastrous plans be used.

Right now, we produce enough food to feed 9 billion people. There are only 7ish. It is our current plans that are disastrous, not those that will save them.

You are just assuming I am talking about an infinite charitable state for some ridiculous reason, but as a business owner, and a capitalist, I understand human nature at its basic level, and know full well, that such a system can never work. However, the current one means millions of suffering, starving children as well, so as a Christian, one is failing their teachings, by not doing more to prevent that, every single day.


Charitable organizations are a part of the free market, so no qualms there.
You can advocate as much as you want, and that's fine so long as you don't go blundering into it with ill-gotten goods (tax revenue).


You're concerned about starvation. What best alleviates poverty in the long-run? When people become wealthier, less of them starve, so what is the "origin of wealth"?


Again, for a Christian: "who gives a f*ck about the origin of wealth. Gods children are starving, lets find a proper way to feed them."

Its not a direct quote.

Also, I never mentioned anything about taxing people to contribute. The entire point was that individuals that followed Christ, make decisions every day, that to varying degrees, ignore Christs children suffering and starving. Hell, if Christs followers actually took his teachings to heart, the government wouldnt have to go in to save them, because Gods work would already be done.

The reason governments get involved is, pretty much because people are selfish, and they do fail, and instead of making the correct choice, they give into greed, and let kids die for the fabulous window dressing. Essentially, the government insures you dont spend it all on window dressings and at least saves a few of the kids, in theory anyways...but the main point is, the hypocricy of the religious, not what should be done about the poor.

One thing is for sure, He absolutely gave us plenty of resources to take care of those kids, so if He did happen to exist, there would certainly be some splaining to do.
Last edited by AAFitz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

Postby AAFitz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:39 pm

2dimes wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Whoa, whoa, whoa. So we've shifted subjects? What exactly do you want to discuss?

MONKEYS!!

Ok everyone 32 pages about monkeys before player comes back. Go!



Jesus would probably want us to treat monkey's better too, though I just watched a movie this afternoon that suggests he has big plans for our brother apes. ;)
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Postby 2dimes on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:44 pm

I don't know what his exact thoughts would be on animal rights groups but I'm pretty sure he is a big proponent of treating them well.

I've been lurking. I might have over did it. Hopfully I didn't strain anything.

I've enjoyed some Sobotage posts in here. Often they could break off into threads themselves. Some of them could become so intense I would probably need to switch to posting caturday pics.
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Re:

Postby AAFitz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:48 pm

2dimes wrote:I don't know what his exact thoughts would be on animal rights groups but I'm pretty sure he is a big proponent of treating them well.

I've been lurking. I might have over did it. Hopfully I didn't strain anything.

I've enjoyed some Sobotage posts in here. Often they could break off into threads themselves. Some of them could become so intense I would probably need to switch to posting caturday pics.


That was a joke, and that subject is way too complicated for this thread, but there is no question that needless suffering, was not the ultimate goal.
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Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby john9blue on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:51 pm

GOD OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T EXIST CUZ IF HE DID THEN HE WOULD DEFINITELY ACT ACCORDING TO THE MORALS OF SOME RANDOM ASS SPECIES ON A RANDOM ASS PLANET

NO NOT THE MORALS WE HAD 100 YEARS AGO

OH AND NOT THE ONES WE'LL HAVE IN 100 YEARS

ONLY THE ONES AT THIS MINUSCULE TIME IN THIS MINUSCULE PLACE

GOD ISN'T AS ETHICALLY FICKLE AS WE ARE LOL WHAT AN ASSHOLE

for a thread with "forsight" (sic) in the title, this thread is ridiculously short-sighted

funkyterrance got it right in the very first reply and it's a damn shame that you people have been able to argue one page an hour over something that should be patently obvious
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Postby 2dimes on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:08 pm

I'm certainly glad I missed the arguing.
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Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby _sabotage_ on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:10 pm

It's symptomatic of the policy on economics. By chasing the dollar we put the human will towards disastrous ends, get the politicians do something about it, which always means building up another industry behind the idea, or "accidentally" providing demand to another and the cycle continues. I am lost in where the cycle begins and ends sometimes. It often seems to me that the order of events doesn't even matter anymore.

If we addressed the bottom line need of the problem, we would be attacking it at the root. In an old school community, if someone were too lazy to help out, they would beat him upside the head. If he stole or did something stupid, he would pay for it and move on or out. The world wasn't perfect then, but from it something has been lost. In a close knit community, we wouldn't see most of our common day problems. But nowadays, we are alienated from the world around us, not just natural, but communal. We are more and more dependent on the system and as we specialize further, we will only know how to push buttons.

As a society we are losing. Doom Yoshi asked the other day, Apple has 5000 people working for them, who do I have working for me? If you still believe it is the government then get off your happy pills. We were bought and sold long ago. Money is just a concept, let it go. Trading resources directly would cut out so many middle men. It would give so many more people an opportunity and revitalize communities. It would take care of the kid and make it unlikely for someone to need to rob the other guy/store.

If a community worked together to provide for itself and create a gross product to be traded on the open local and international market, and the community thrived or perished on that, it would provide a place for everyone, but little reason and resources for prison or war.

If they is a god and we are his creation, do you think he wants to see us destroying each other all of the time, or working together?
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Postby 2dimes on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:18 pm

_sabotage_ wrote:If a community worked together to provide for itself and create a gross product to be traded on the open local and international market, and the community thrived or perished on that, it would provide a place for everyone, but little reason and resources for prison or war.


Is there areas in rural China that have functioned like that a bit from the time when people started living there, that are now starting to move away from it toward a modern monetary system?
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Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby _sabotage_ on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:30 pm

Sure.
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