Godlike Forsight

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderator: Community Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Rock the vote!

God is a dickhead.
0
No votes
God is a mysterious, all-loving, omniscient, all-powerful, dickhead.
1
5%
I'm offended! My beliefs! My beliefs! OHHH THE AGONIZING CONTRADICTIONS!!!!
3
14%
Get another God; this one's broken.
2
9%
I'm atheist.
5
23%
I'm agnostic.
6
27%
I'm a kitten.
3
14%
I'm a theist.
2
9%
 
Total votes : 22

Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby _sabotage_ on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:21 pm

AAFitz wrote:I just recently had a Cop tell me most of the people he had to deal with weren't so much criminals, as mentally ill. Hes a Grand olde party, AR15 owning republican to the core but had no problem pointing out that Reagan's dismantling of the mental ill infrastructure for a good portion of our societies criminal problems.

And while off topic, how sane is a guy suggesting that insurance companies provide care for mentally ill people. I mean, call me crazy, but how the f*ck is a crazy person who needs treatment, going to get a job to pay for insurance, to get treatment so he can get a job so he can get insurance to pay for treatment so he can get a job.

Its not so much crazy, as utterly fucking stupid....or in that case, callous, uncaring, and by definition un-Christian.


That's just half the problem, the other half is how many people we call crazy these days. We've upped the sales pitch on insanity. We now make it so easy to be insane, and profitable. I had an Indian friend in uni in Kansas, he came back with ADD and a prescription that cost $150 a month in Kansas. My sister never took drugs and now they have her hooked on some pill. To see people comparing their pills in the states might be like how people compare fighting cocks in Thailand. I've seen all kinds of drug addicts and those pill poppers are on some funky shit. How the f*ck do we expect people to be sane after telling them they crazy and provide them with a daily mind altering drug?
User avatar
Captain _sabotage_
 
Posts: 1187
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:21 am
Medals: 32
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Most Improved Gold (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1)
Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1)
Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2)
Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby AAFitz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:25 pm

_sabotage_ wrote:
AAFitz wrote:I just recently had a Cop tell me most of the people he had to deal with weren't so much criminals, as mentally ill. Hes a Grand olde party, AR15 owning republican to the core but had no problem pointing out that Reagan's dismantling of the mental ill infrastructure for a good portion of our societies criminal problems.

And while off topic, how sane is a guy suggesting that insurance companies provide care for mentally ill people. I mean, call me crazy, but how the f*ck is a crazy person who needs treatment, going to get a job to pay for insurance, to get treatment so he can get a job so he can get insurance to pay for treatment so he can get a job.

Its not so much crazy, as utterly fucking stupid....or in that case, callous, uncaring, and by definition un-Christian.


That's just half the problem, the other half is how many people we call crazy these days. We've upped the sales pitch on insanity. We now make it so easy to be insane, and profitable. I had an Indian friend in uni in Kansas, he came back with ADD and a prescription that cost $150 a month in Kansas. My sister never took drugs and now they have her hooked on some pill. To see people comparing their pills in the states might be like how people compare fighting cocks in Thailand. I've seen all kinds of drug addicts and those pill poppers are on some funky shit. How the f*ck do we expect people to be sane after telling them they crazy and provide them with a daily mind altering drug?


By billing them?

Sorry..I agree, insanity for some is just an escape from actually getting a job and working. Certainly, just not working can cause depression and lead to the spiral of other mental health problems, but there absolutely a number of people who are crazy-by-lazy (as far as I know I just coined this diagnosis) and while treating them is still probably better, the lazyness is more difficult to treat, as in you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink(I think I coined that one too?)
john9blue wrote:"honestly i think martin might be better off dead"

sekretar: "i go to russia and then, without comp, i hoppe, i forgot this shit who kill my nerves long time!"

http://i.imgur.com/zU8yLiU.gif
User avatar
Lieutenant AAFitz
 
Posts: 7258
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:47 am
Location: On top of the World 2.1
Medals: 85
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (2)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (3)
Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (8) General Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (8) Tournament Contribution (8) General Contribution (2)

Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:31 pm

_sabotage_ wrote:How is providing a chance at a decent life to the worst among us mean that the rest of us will suffer? I think you have looked at one too many charts.

The Rand Drug Policy Research Center study concluded that $3 billion should be switched from federal and local law enforcement to treatment. The report said that treatment is the cheapest way to cut drug use, stating that drug treatment is twenty-three times more effective than the supply-side "war on drugs".[132]

23 times more effective. And yet, we did the exact opposite. Instead of helping the worst off in society, drug addicts who have reached the point where they recognize and seek treatment, we gave Columbia the money to buy weapons from us to fight the war on drugs. We thereby fucked up Columbia, making those in the country worse than before. We set up Mobotu in the Congo and fucked up that region and made the worse off worse. A fence is only as strong as its weakest link. We can continue to put people in prison so that we can provide comfy jobs for police or we can try to bring equality into the equation. If we have more or less the same then crime will more or less disappear. Instead we feed our rich even more and kick our poor further into the muck. If we don't improve the lives of the worst off, whose do we improve?


Whoa, whoa, whoa. So we've shifted subjects? What exactly do you want to discuss?
User avatar
Major BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 5130
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:34 pm

AAFitz wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Self-sacrificing a society's/group's wealth and transferring it to another group some place far away won't improve that group in the long-run.


Letting that group die will not improve that group in the long run either.


I've already explained how the alternative is not the best choice due to the unintended consequences... In this sense, you are advocating for "letting" them be harmed by well-intended yet disastrous plans.


No, I am advocating saving them from imminent death, and you are advocating letting them die, for some futuristic pipe dreamed utopia, where greed solves all problems through a magic free market.

Furthermore, I am absolutely suggesting non-disastrous plans be used.

Right now, we produce enough food to feed 9 billion people. There are only 7ish. It is our current plans that are disastrous, not those that will save them.

You are just assuming I am talking about an infinite charitable state for some ridiculous reason, but as a business owner, and a capitalist, I understand human nature at its basic level, and know full well, that such a system can never work. However, the current one means millions of suffering, starving children as well, so as a Christian, one is failing their teachings, by not doing more to prevent that, every single day.


Charitable organizations are a part of the free market, so no qualms there.
You can advocate as much as you want, and that's fine so long as you don't go blundering into it with ill-gotten goods (tax revenue).


You're concerned about starvation. What best alleviates poverty in the long-run? When people become wealthier, less of them starve, so what is the "origin of wealth"?
User avatar
Major BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 5130
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby AAFitz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:36 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
_sabotage_ wrote:How is providing a chance at a decent life to the worst among us mean that the rest of us will suffer? I think you have looked at one too many charts.

The Rand Drug Policy Research Center study concluded that $3 billion should be switched from federal and local law enforcement to treatment. The report said that treatment is the cheapest way to cut drug use, stating that drug treatment is twenty-three times more effective than the supply-side "war on drugs".[132]

23 times more effective. And yet, we did the exact opposite. Instead of helping the worst off in society, drug addicts who have reached the point where they recognize and seek treatment, we gave Columbia the money to buy weapons from us to fight the war on drugs. We thereby fucked up Columbia, making those in the country worse than before. We set up Mobotu in the Congo and fucked up that region and made the worse off worse. A fence is only as strong as its weakest link. We can continue to put people in prison so that we can provide comfy jobs for police or we can try to bring equality into the equation. If we have more or less the same then crime will more or less disappear. Instead we feed our rich even more and kick our poor further into the muck. If we don't improve the lives of the worst off, whose do we improve?


Whoa, whoa, whoa. So we've shifted subjects? What exactly do you want to discuss?


My bad on that one for mentioning health care, I meant it as a related topic.
Maybe bold on your part to be the one mentioning going off topic, but...its your thread...and you're absolutely right in this case.
john9blue wrote:"honestly i think martin might be better off dead"

sekretar: "i go to russia and then, without comp, i hoppe, i forgot this shit who kill my nerves long time!"

http://i.imgur.com/zU8yLiU.gif
User avatar
Lieutenant AAFitz
 
Posts: 7258
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:47 am
Location: On top of the World 2.1
Medals: 85
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (2)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (3)
Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (8) General Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (8) Tournament Contribution (8) General Contribution (2)

Postby 2dimes on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:38 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:Whoa, whoa, whoa. So we've shifted subjects? What exactly do you want to discuss?

MONKEYS!!

Ok everyone 32 pages about monkeys before player comes back. Go!
User avatar
Corporal 2dimes
 
Posts: 4205
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 1:08 pm
Location: Just out for a rip!
Medals: 6
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)

Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby AAFitz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:38 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Self-sacrificing a society's/group's wealth and transferring it to another group some place far away won't improve that group in the long-run.


Letting that group die will not improve that group in the long run either.


I've already explained how the alternative is not the best choice due to the unintended consequences... In this sense, you are advocating for "letting" them be harmed by well-intended yet disastrous plans.


No, I am advocating saving them from imminent death, and you are advocating letting them die, for some futuristic pipe dreamed utopia, where greed solves all problems through a magic free market.

Furthermore, I am absolutely suggesting non-disastrous plans be used.

Right now, we produce enough food to feed 9 billion people. There are only 7ish. It is our current plans that are disastrous, not those that will save them.

You are just assuming I am talking about an infinite charitable state for some ridiculous reason, but as a business owner, and a capitalist, I understand human nature at its basic level, and know full well, that such a system can never work. However, the current one means millions of suffering, starving children as well, so as a Christian, one is failing their teachings, by not doing more to prevent that, every single day.


Charitable organizations are a part of the free market, so no qualms there.
You can advocate as much as you want, and that's fine so long as you don't go blundering into it with ill-gotten goods (tax revenue).


You're concerned about starvation. What best alleviates poverty in the long-run? When people become wealthier, less of them starve, so what is the "origin of wealth"?


Again, for a Christian: "who gives a f*ck about the origin of wealth. Gods children are starving, lets find a proper way to feed them."

Its not a direct quote.

Also, I never mentioned anything about taxing people to contribute. The entire point was that individuals that followed Christ, make decisions every day, that to varying degrees, ignore Christs children suffering and starving. Hell, if Christs followers actually took his teachings to heart, the government wouldnt have to go in to save them, because Gods work would already be done.

The reason governments get involved is, pretty much because people are selfish, and they do fail, and instead of making the correct choice, they give into greed, and let kids die for the fabulous window dressing. Essentially, the government insures you dont spend it all on window dressings and at least saves a few of the kids, in theory anyways...but the main point is, the hypocricy of the religious, not what should be done about the poor.

One thing is for sure, He absolutely gave us plenty of resources to take care of those kids, so if He did happen to exist, there would certainly be some splaining to do.
Last edited by AAFitz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
john9blue wrote:"honestly i think martin might be better off dead"

sekretar: "i go to russia and then, without comp, i hoppe, i forgot this shit who kill my nerves long time!"

http://i.imgur.com/zU8yLiU.gif
User avatar
Lieutenant AAFitz
 
Posts: 7258
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:47 am
Location: On top of the World 2.1
Medals: 85
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (2)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (3)
Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (8) General Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (8) Tournament Contribution (8) General Contribution (2)

Re:

Postby AAFitz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:39 pm

2dimes wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Whoa, whoa, whoa. So we've shifted subjects? What exactly do you want to discuss?

MONKEYS!!

Ok everyone 32 pages about monkeys before player comes back. Go!



Jesus would probably want us to treat monkey's better too, though I just watched a movie this afternoon that suggests he has big plans for our brother apes. ;)
john9blue wrote:"honestly i think martin might be better off dead"

sekretar: "i go to russia and then, without comp, i hoppe, i forgot this shit who kill my nerves long time!"

http://i.imgur.com/zU8yLiU.gif
User avatar
Lieutenant AAFitz
 
Posts: 7258
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:47 am
Location: On top of the World 2.1
Medals: 85
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (2)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (3)
Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (8) General Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (8) Tournament Contribution (8) General Contribution (2)

Postby 2dimes on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:44 pm

I don't know what his exact thoughts would be on animal rights groups but I'm pretty sure he is a big proponent of treating them well.

I've been lurking. I might have over did it. Hopfully I didn't strain anything.

I've enjoyed some Sobotage posts in here. Often they could break off into threads themselves. Some of them could become so intense I would probably need to switch to posting caturday pics.
User avatar
Corporal 2dimes
 
Posts: 4205
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 1:08 pm
Location: Just out for a rip!
Medals: 6
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)

Re:

Postby AAFitz on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:48 pm

2dimes wrote:I don't know what his exact thoughts would be on animal rights groups but I'm pretty sure he is a big proponent of treating them well.

I've been lurking. I might have over did it. Hopfully I didn't strain anything.

I've enjoyed some Sobotage posts in here. Often they could break off into threads themselves. Some of them could become so intense I would probably need to switch to posting caturday pics.


That was a joke, and that subject is way too complicated for this thread, but there is no question that needless suffering, was not the ultimate goal.
john9blue wrote:"honestly i think martin might be better off dead"

sekretar: "i go to russia and then, without comp, i hoppe, i forgot this shit who kill my nerves long time!"

http://i.imgur.com/zU8yLiU.gif
User avatar
Lieutenant AAFitz
 
Posts: 7258
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:47 am
Location: On top of the World 2.1
Medals: 85
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (4) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (2)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (3)
Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (8) General Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (8) Tournament Contribution (8) General Contribution (2)

Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby john9blue on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:51 pm

GOD OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T EXIST CUZ IF HE DID THEN HE WOULD DEFINITELY ACT ACCORDING TO THE MORALS OF SOME RANDOM ASS SPECIES ON A RANDOM ASS PLANET

NO NOT THE MORALS WE HAD 100 YEARS AGO

OH AND NOT THE ONES WE'LL HAVE IN 100 YEARS

ONLY THE ONES AT THIS MINUSCULE TIME IN THIS MINUSCULE PLACE

GOD ISN'T AS ETHICALLY FICKLE AS WE ARE LOL WHAT AN ASSHOLE

for a thread with "forsight" (sic) in the title, this thread is ridiculously short-sighted

funkyterrance got it right in the very first reply and it's a damn shame that you people have been able to argue one page an hour over something that should be patently obvious
natty_dread wrote:Do ponies have sex?
Army of GOD wrote:the term heterosexual is offensive. I prefer to be called "normal"
(proud member of the Occasionally Wrongly Banned)
User avatar
Captain john9blue
 
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:18 pm
Location: FlutterChi-town
Medals: 14
Standard Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3)

Postby 2dimes on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:08 pm

I'm certainly glad I missed the arguing.
User avatar
Corporal 2dimes
 
Posts: 4205
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 1:08 pm
Location: Just out for a rip!
Medals: 6
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)

Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby _sabotage_ on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:10 pm

It's symptomatic of the policy on economics. By chasing the dollar we put the human will towards disastrous ends, get the politicians do something about it, which always means building up another industry behind the idea, or "accidentally" providing demand to another and the cycle continues. I am lost in where the cycle begins and ends sometimes. It often seems to me that the order of events doesn't even matter anymore.

If we addressed the bottom line need of the problem, we would be attacking it at the root. In an old school community, if someone were too lazy to help out, they would beat him upside the head. If he stole or did something stupid, he would pay for it and move on or out. The world wasn't perfect then, but from it something has been lost. In a close knit community, we wouldn't see most of our common day problems. But nowadays, we are alienated from the world around us, not just natural, but communal. We are more and more dependent on the system and as we specialize further, we will only know how to push buttons.

As a society we are losing. Doom Yoshi asked the other day, Apple has 5000 people working for them, who do I have working for me? If you still believe it is the government then get off your happy pills. We were bought and sold long ago. Money is just a concept, let it go. Trading resources directly would cut out so many middle men. It would give so many more people an opportunity and revitalize communities. It would take care of the kid and make it unlikely for someone to need to rob the other guy/store.

If a community worked together to provide for itself and create a gross product to be traded on the open local and international market, and the community thrived or perished on that, it would provide a place for everyone, but little reason and resources for prison or war.

If they is a god and we are his creation, do you think he wants to see us destroying each other all of the time, or working together?
User avatar
Captain _sabotage_
 
Posts: 1187
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:21 am
Medals: 32
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Most Improved Gold (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1)
Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1)
Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2)
Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)

Postby 2dimes on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:18 pm

_sabotage_ wrote:If a community worked together to provide for itself and create a gross product to be traded on the open local and international market, and the community thrived or perished on that, it would provide a place for everyone, but little reason and resources for prison or war.


Is there areas in rural China that have functioned like that a bit from the time when people started living there, that are now starting to move away from it toward a modern monetary system?
User avatar
Corporal 2dimes
 
Posts: 4205
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 1:08 pm
Location: Just out for a rip!
Medals: 6
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)

Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby _sabotage_ on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:30 pm

Sure.
User avatar
Captain _sabotage_
 
Posts: 1187
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:21 am
Medals: 32
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Most Improved Gold (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1)
Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1)
Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2)
Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)

Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:44 pm

AAFitz wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Charitable organizations are a part of the free market, so no qualms there.
You can advocate as much as you want, and that's fine so long as you don't go blundering into it with ill-gotten goods (tax revenue).


You're concerned about starvation. What best alleviates poverty in the long-run? When people become wealthier, less of them starve, so what is the "origin of wealth"?


Again, for a Christian: "who gives a f*ck about the origin of wealth. Gods children are starving, lets find a proper way to feed them."

Its not a direct quote.

Also, I never mentioned anything about taxing people to contribute. The entire point was that individuals that followed Christ, make decisions every day, that to varying degrees, ignore Christs children suffering and starving. Hell, if Christs followers actually took his teachings to heart, the government wouldnt have to go in to save them, because Gods work would already be done.

The reason governments get involved is, pretty much because people are selfish, and they do fail, and instead of making the correct choice, they give into greed, and let kids die for the fabulous window dressing. Essentially, the government insures you dont spend it all on window dressings and at least saves a few of the kids, in theory anyways...but the main point is, the hypocricy of the religious, not what should be done about the poor.

One thing is for sure, He absolutely gave us plenty of resources to take care of those kids, so if He did happen to exist, there would certainly be some splaining to do.


The origin of wealth matters because as people get wealthier they get to enjoy higher standards of living (life expectancy, education, blahb lah blah, oh and not starving to death).

That's all. As for the rest, I don't feel knowledgeable enough to comment about markets and Christian doctrine (which was why I somewhat humorously rewrote the words of Jesus Christ earlier).

Much to TGD's glee, I haven't read the following books/articles (cuz I don't care enough), but if you or anyone is interested, then....

these are about Christianity and the Market:

The Pope on 'Love in Truth'
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1247181 ... torialPage

Caveat Venalicium Libertas
http://www.financialpost.com/opinion/co ... 3cc8747c05

Chafuen, Alejandro A. Faith and Liberty: The Economic Thought of the Late Scholastics.

Woods, Thomas E. Jr. The Church and the Market: A Catholic Defense of the Free Economy


Also, there was the School of Salamanca, which tied in Christianity with free markets:

http://cepa.newschool.edu/het/schools/s ... htm#molina
http://www.acton.org/publicat/randl/article.php?id=474
http://www.quebecoislibre.org/981219-3.htm (in French)
http://www.mises.org/juandemariana.asp
http://www.mises.org/blogdetail.asp?control=1244
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/howell1.html

School of Salamanca?
show
User avatar
Major BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 5130
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby / on Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:30 pm

Nature in itself is a system where living creatures take each other’s lives in cycles. If God made it so upon design then it doesn't make sense not to run it as such. I believe such as system can be said to be a fair ultimate goodness from a “King of Kings” perspective.

If you were the king of a country, are you a “good” king if you deplete the kingdom’s treasury to make the people happy, rather than managing by making the people live within their means, teaching them, guiding them, and ultimately allowing the country to overcome their problems?
If you have a biosphere, is there more meaning to keep a balance of life and death, or to shower the jar with slices of bread every time the food dwindles, until they overpopulate and the bodies of the insects are stacked to the top of the jar?
If a hardworking millionaire showers their daughter with gifts to their every whim, never teaching them to strive for a goal, will that child ever grow up to meet the image of their parent?
If we choose to view existence on a human-centric or more accurately self-centric morality, perhaps God is “evil” to us, but that does not mean God does not love all. God may love all life; as life in general. Just as one may love ants, but not make their entire ant-farm to specifically accommodate the individual lives of Ant #1 through Ant #989745.

Happiness, pain, sadness, empathy, anger; all of these things are just illusions programmed into us to make life have the ability to work in a way that existed long before human reason, a way for animals and our ancestors to know what is best for themselves to allow life to progress and learn naturally. If we were capable of making factory robots that could introspect, they would see that a robot that breaks the progress is disposed of, this would be “evil” to them, and perhaps the human-gods would be “evil” too for making a world where robots can be disposed of for their flaws. However this is a “good” act for humans or robots in the end, because it is a system that allows for both to improve upon the greater design.

Over time life has been born, divided, adapted, died, and ultimately evolved. God could have favored any one of these branches in the uncountable family tree of life, but what is, is. We live in a world where each walnut might become a great tree, and each child might become a hero to advance humanity, at the same time, walnuts can die to become food for humans, and humans can die to become food for walnut trees; depending on the lessons we choose not to heed from life.

TL;DR: God is a dick to us because God values the ultimate advancement and sustainability of working life rather than individual life.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class /
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:41 am
Medals: 4
Standard Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) General Contribution (1)

Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby JJM on Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:38 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:Suppose you know that if your friend enters the convenience store, in about 10 minutes, he'll be murdered by a robber.
All you have to do is say, "Hey, let's go to the other convenience store."

You then saved your friend's life. Pat yourself on the back.



Since God is allegedly omniscient, then he has the ability to prevent many unnecessary deaths. Yet, he doesn't intervene. He simply lets many people unnecessarily die.

Is this negligent?
What kind of dickhead lets someone die like that?
"Sorry, dude, but you know, I can't directly intervene cuz free will--except for all those times when I intervened about 2000 years ago."


Doesn't make any sense at all.

I must start off by saying wow. Less than 12 hours and 7 pages already. As a Christian I believe that God has given people free will, and humans do things such as murders God dose not control these actions.
Corporal 1st Class JJM
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:49 pm
Location: North Dakota
Medals: 1
Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:46 pm

john9blue wrote:GOD OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T EXIST CUZ IF HE DID THEN HE WOULD DEFINITELY ACT ACCORDING TO THE MORALS OF SOME RANDOM ASS SPECIES ON A RANDOM ASS PLANET

NO NOT THE MORALS WE HAD 100 YEARS AGO

OH AND NOT THE ONES WE'LL HAVE IN 100 YEARS

ONLY THE ONES AT THIS MINUSCULE TIME IN THIS MINUSCULE PLACE

GOD ISN'T AS ETHICALLY FICKLE AS WE ARE LOL WHAT AN ASSHOLE

for a thread with "forsight" (sic) in the title, this thread is ridiculously short-sighted

funkyterrance got it right in the very first reply and it's a damn shame that you people have been able to argue one page an hour over something that should be patently obvious


You mean the morals that he/she/it supposedly handed down to humans in various texts as the word of god(s) to be followed upon threat of eternal damnation? So he/she/it is a "do as I say, not as I do" type of god. Still a dick.

-TG
ImageEight-year olds, Dude.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class TA1LGUNN3R
 
Posts: 718
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:52 am
Location: 22 Acacia Avenue
Medals: 5
Standard Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) General Achievement (1)

Re:

Postby thegreekdog on Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:33 am

2dimes wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:2dimes, tvor, TGD, and a few others--I imagine--represent the majority of Christians and other theists, and they have the right mindset when it comes to religion. This is why I'm not too particularly concerned about religion itself and about most of its adherents. When Hawkins stated (in that youtube video Haggis(?) posted somewhere far far away) 'religion is evil because X, Y, and Z," I disagree because his interpretation of religion does not sync with the majority's--and more importantly the consequences of religious followers are on net positive.

I'm not certain I could be on sort of a sugar rush or something here too...

I think I've expressed it and Tzor and TGD will possibly back this up. I'm nearly Anti Christian Religion and have written on this forum my distaste specifically toward the Roman Catholic Church.

Hypocritically I do have some affection at least for their online personnas toward both those posters while understanding they are proud members of that religion. In fact I have respected some of the things they both have posted to defend it.

I have met good people that are some level of believer belonging to many religions. This rabbit hole is getting too deep here.

Religion to me is like minded persons getting together to share time and thoughts. Sometimes it's great, sometimes it can be very bad.

An athiest looking out for number one is just doing what is arguably somewhat natural. Self preservation.I find it more offensive when it is a person that claims to follow Christ that does a bad thing. I'm sure I do that too though.

Conversly there is a certain beauty in a person that questions or can't believe there is a God, choosing the right thing just because they know it's the right thing. It's more to their credit than doing it because, "I better so I don't get smote."


Ironically, or whatever, I have a rather distinct dislike for most other Christian religions (generally) and certain Christians who preach a whole lot and don't really do anything substantive with their lives (to practice what they preach). This extends to Catholics as well.

But no one is perfect. No religion is perfect. No atheist or agnostic is perfect. I'm going to make decisions that are selfish and kids in Africa are going to starve. I'm going to make decisions that are not selfish and some high school kid in Philadelphia is going to get into college. Neither of those things have anything to do with religion in that anyone can do both of those things with or without religion. Religion motivates me to do good things, but not in a "oh no, I'll be smoted" kind of way. I don't give money to charity because I want to get into heaven. I don't refrain from murder because it's a commandmant. I disobey my parents regularly. I covet things my neighbors have. If my primary concern was to attain heaven, why would I do or not do those things?

I'm Catholic for a bunch of different reasons. I was raised Catholic. I enjoy mass and it makes me feel better to attend and to pray generally. I think the Catholic Church does some horrible things, but it does some good things too (just like any other organization). I don't like when the church preaches down to people, especially about things where turning the other cheek might be a good idea, but I can't change that thinking by leaving and what the Catholic church says does not cause me to run my life a certain way in all cases.

In any event, all religions have bad guys and good guys and do good things and bad things. But all groups of people, all societies, have bad guys and good guys and do good things and bad things. I'm a citizen of the United States; this country has done some fucked up shit but I still support it. I'm an attorney, which houses some of the most vile scum and villainy, but I'm not leaving the profession. I'm a libertarian, although it's just a collection of washed-up Republicans and stoners.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant thegreekdog
 
Posts: 6571
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:55 am
Location: Philadelphia
Medals: 38
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (2) General Contribution (2)

Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:37 am

JJM wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Suppose you know that if your friend enters the convenience store, in about 10 minutes, he'll be murdered by a robber.
All you have to do is say, "Hey, let's go to the other convenience store."

You then saved your friend's life. Pat yourself on the back.



Since God is allegedly omniscient, then he has the ability to prevent many unnecessary deaths. Yet, he doesn't intervene. He simply lets many people unnecessarily die.

Is this negligent?
What kind of dickhead lets someone die like that?
"Sorry, dude, but you know, I can't directly intervene cuz free will--except for all those times when I intervened about 2000 years ago."


Doesn't make any sense at all.

I must start off by saying wow. Less than 12 hours and 7 pages already. As a Christian I believe that God has given people free will, and humans do things such as murders God dose not control these actions.



Image
User avatar
Major BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 5130
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Re:

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:42 am

thegreekdog wrote:Ironically, or whatever, I have a rather distinct dislike for most other Christian religions (generally) and certain Christians who preach a whole lot and don't really do anything substantive with their lives (to practice what they preach). This extends to Catholics as well.

But no one is perfect. No religion is perfect. No atheist or agnostic is perfect. I'm going to make decisions that are selfish and kids in Africa are going to starve. I'm going to make decisions that are not selfish and some high school kid in Philadelphia is going to get into college. Neither of those things have anything to do with religion in that anyone can do both of those things with or without religion. Religion motivates me to do good things, but not in a "oh no, I'll be smoted" kind of way. I don't give money to charity because I want to get into heaven. I don't refrain from murder because it's a commandmant. I disobey my parents regularly. I covet things my neighbors have. If my primary concern was to attain heaven, why would I do or not do those things?

I'm Catholic for a bunch of different reasons. I was raised Catholic. I enjoy mass and it makes me feel better to attend and to pray generally. I think the Catholic Church does some horrible things, but it does some good things too (just like any other organization). I don't like when the church preaches down to people, especially about things where turning the other cheek might be a good idea, but I can't change that thinking by leaving and what the Catholic church says does not cause me to run my life a certain way in all cases.

In any event, all religions have bad guys and good guys and do good things and bad things. But all groups of people, all societies, have bad guys and good guys and do good things and bad things. I'm a citizen of the United States; this country has done some fucked up shit but I still support it. I'm an attorney, which houses some of the most vile scum and villainy, but I'm not leaving the profession. I'm a libertarian, although it's just a collection of washed-up Republicans and stoners.


Image


(RE: bold, f*ck YEAH, free markets in religion. Get you some!)
User avatar
Major BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 5130
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby chang50 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:48 am

JJM wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Suppose you know that if your friend enters the convenience store, in about 10 minutes, he'll be murdered by a robber.
All you have to do is say, "Hey, let's go to the other convenience store."

You then saved your friend's life. Pat yourself on the back.



Since God is allegedly omniscient, then he has the ability to prevent many unnecessary deaths. Yet, he doesn't intervene. He simply lets many people unnecessarily die.

Is this negligent?
What kind of dickhead lets someone die like that?
"Sorry, dude, but you know, I can't directly intervene cuz free will--except for all those times when I intervened about 2000 years ago."


Doesn't make any sense at all.

I must start off by saying wow. Less than 12 hours and 7 pages already. As a Christian I believe that God has given people free will, and humans do things such as murders God dose not control these actions.



I'm curious,would you have commented if there had been 7 pro Christian pages?So we have free will 'cos the boss says so?
User avatar
Lieutenant chang50
 
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:54 am
Location: pattaya,thailand
Medals: 15
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Polymorphic Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Beta Map Achievement (1) Bot Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby john9blue on Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:50 pm

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:You mean the morals that he/she/it supposedly handed down to humans in various texts as the word of god(s) to be followed upon threat of eternal damnation? So he/she/it is a "do as I say, not as I do" type of god. Still a dick.

-TG


oh, were we taking about christianity? i thought we were talking about god. my bad bro.
natty_dread wrote:Do ponies have sex?
Army of GOD wrote:the term heterosexual is offensive. I prefer to be called "normal"
(proud member of the Occasionally Wrongly Banned)
User avatar
Captain john9blue
 
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:18 pm
Location: FlutterChi-town
Medals: 14
Standard Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3)

Re: Godlike Forsight

Postby crispybits on Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:59 pm

john9blue wrote:GOD OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T EXIST CUZ IF HE DID THEN HE WOULD DEFINITELY ACT ACCORDING TO THE MORALS OF SOME RANDOM ASS SPECIES ON A RANDOM ASS PLANET

NO NOT THE MORALS WE HAD 100 YEARS AGO

OH AND NOT THE ONES WE'LL HAVE IN 100 YEARS

ONLY THE ONES AT THIS MINUSCULE TIME IN THIS MINUSCULE PLACE

GOD ISN'T AS ETHICALLY FICKLE AS WE ARE LOL WHAT AN ASSHOLE

for a thread with "forsight" (sic) in the title, this thread is ridiculously short-sighted

funkyterrance got it right in the very first reply and it's a damn shame that you people have been able to argue one page an hour over something that should be patently obvious


GOD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS AND WE CAN NEVER UNDERSTAND HIS MOTIVES OR INTENTIONS!!!

I HAVE A BIBLE HERE THAT EXPLAINS ALL ABOUT GOD'S MOTIVES AND INTENTIONS AND IS THE TRUE WAY TO KNOW HIM!!!!

I ALSO POST IN CAPS BECAUSE I THINK IT MAKES MY POINTLESS POINT MORE POINTY!!!
User avatar
Major crispybits
 
Posts: 943
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm
Medals: 33
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (9)

PreviousNext

Return to Troll Forest

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: GoranZ

Login