PLAYER57832 wrote:See, here is the irony. The market does work , to a large extent, for people who have specialized skills. It is very far from perfect, and HIGHLY skewed by the percieved need to pay investors dividends, boost stock prices.
But, it doesn't work at the bottom because, plain and simply, the "market" places no value on low skills. This is where human beings with morality have to come in and say "People have value".
Sure, "it" values low-skilled workers, but you have to examine what distorts those values (e.g. minimum wage laws and the substitution effect).
Nope, you are letting the tail wag the dog again.
Minimum wage is not about maintaining business or creating jobs or any other ephemeral cause. It is about ensuring that people who work get to live basic but decent lives for their efforts.
The rest is for the market to determine. MY argument, which you keep pretending doesn’t exist, is that the idea that someone can pay others less than it takes them to survive and still be providing anything for the economy is just false, particularly in a society which has determined that allowing people to just die on street corners of hunger is not a good idea. (i.e. most civilized societies)
Business should thrive or not, fully on its own.
Most of your arguments are not about economics or business in truth, they are about maintaining the CURRENT status quo. Set the boundaries and the system will change and adapt.
I am not in favor of a Marxist style revolution, don’t think that is really what will happen. (for one thing, folks have learned, from Machiavelli if no other, that you cannot oppress people too much or they will rebel). What I see is that this complete ignorance of the real world, the natural world, is allowing businesses and governments to make decisions that are very, very detrimental to humanity. Oil is one example, farmland is another, and chemical production is a third. There are others, but just focusing on the those 3 issues should terrify anyone.
IF business were truly forced to be accountable for the problems they are creating, then less wealth would be created, at least in the short term, but in the longer term you would see innovation toward more sustainability. Allowing “its not profitable [today]” to be a prime argument distorts the system and falsely creates a system where people are allowed to take serious gain by making horrible long term decisions.