Night Strike wrote: PLAYER57832 wrote: Night Strike wrote:
ooge wrote:Are we a consumer based economy? Yes. Then the more money consumers have the better economy does.You could have the best product in the world but if no one can afford it your business will fail.Henry Ford gave his workers a unheard of at the time wage increase with the intention that they would be able to buy the product they were making,This was successful.
Private sector choices versus governmental mandates. BIG difference between the two; please understand the difference.
Yes... government mandates are about providing things the ELECTED representatives of the public want. Private sector choices are almost entirely about making a few people as much money as possible, and generally have nothing at all to do with what benefits society or people as a whole.
And those people get elected because they make continual promises to provide handouts using other people's money. You forget about the whole point of the private sector: people get to choose for themselves
what they want and how to accomplish it. By people choosing to benefit themselves, that benefits the society. Instead, because we have governmental dependency, people choose to leach off the promise of free stuff from the government, which only brings our society down, as we see today. We don't want a planned, central economy just because the elected elites think it's beneficial.
Oh bull... you think that someone having a lot of money means they have the automatic right to decide what is correct in society. I say EVERYONE has the right to decide... and sometimes that does mean telling big bullies that "sorry, you DO have to pay attention to other people's rights1".
And stop acting like the choice is free market versus planned economy. What we have now is a big business planned economy. Its the worst of all worlds.
The private sector does some things wonderfully. You want a new tennis shoe, a better shirt or even a great flavor of ice cream.. the market can probably get you there. The market, however never has and never will find cures for malaria, cancer, provide national parks like we can all enjoy, protect the vast forest resources our country has, or even do a decent job of providing long term agriculture, roads, education.
AND, ultimately, while the market did a good job of providing us all with nice refridgerators, it has also created a throw-away society that depends on continual abuse and waste to survive.
Night Strike wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:What you are really saying is the only one set of skills, one mindset is valuable to society. Running a business is a skill. BUT, it is not the only skill society needs, nor are the judgements of those with those skills the only ones of value to society.
Nope. People who don't have the skills to run a business can work for other people who need those skills. It's not the government's job to provide an income to people who don't learn the skills necessary to find a job or start their own.
Yeah, you missed the point entirely.
Just because you can run a business does not make you suddenly God or suddenly more capable of deciding what is best for the country as a whole. It makes you good at making a buck, running your business. I can point to many very, very skilled people who are horrible at managing business.
I can point to plenty of people who are good at running business, but not at managing their personal lives or anything else outside of business.
The problem with ideology like yours is that you don't bother to stop and look at the impact of what you claim you want. We have plenty of examples.... the time prior to the Depressions, even this past debacle. ALL of them came about because too much power was given to a few people who have a lot of money, and who thought having that money gave them the right and moral imperitive to make decisions for everyone else.
Night Strike wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:You want a society that is all about making money.
No, I want a society where people can provide from themselves instead of using the government to reallocate it to themselves. Why do you think people who don't work have a right to take money from people who do work?
I know you believe that is what you want. Unfortunately, you ignore history and any data that contradicts your world view.
Its like the socialized medicine thread, back when you started it. Your whole argument was Obama care is socialized medicine and socialized medicine is bad. You ignored any and all evidence from countries that actually have such systems, except for the worst case scenarios and pretended that nothing bad happens in our system that would not magically be fixed by imaginary free market solutions that have never worked in health care.
Here, you pretend that the Depression never happened, that the S & L crisis never happened, that the mortgage debacle was just about poor people taking on more mortgage than they could afford. NO responsibility at all to the banks or the greed that made so many invest in securities they could not understand because they gave a good return.