Night Strike wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:they're trying to destroy the public trust in the Federal Government
Great! Of course, I don't think they're doing a good enough job of it. Since you must have failed to remember, this country was founded
on a distrust on a centralized government. In fact, it was so distrusted that a centralized government was virtually non-existent for the first 8 years of the country. They realized that a little bit of a central government was necessary, so they made one as small as workable and then limited it even further by passing the Bill of Rights. Today's government hardly resembles that of the original Constitutional government, so I think a bunch more distrust is not only warranted, but necessitated.
It's not at all that I've failed to remember. I'm an American historian. The run though, is that I find much of what happened when the US was founded to be irrelevant in contemporary America & today. As Dylan sang, the times they are a changin'. For example, a bunch of rich white slavers just couldn't form a government today like they could then. And while we did have a weak centralized government, George Washington himself headed an army to enforce the government's laws during the Whiskey Tax Rebellion... The founders were willing to enforce the policy of the central government by force if necessary.
John Adams, who was easily one of the best leaders any government ever had, warned of the danger of having a weak central government, & that it would inevitably lead to disunion. He was right; our weak central government was a cause of the Civil War. Southerners complete lack of faith and inherit distrust of government also played a major role. So when we talk about remembering history, remember that Southern politicians and warhawks did whatever they could to erode the trust of government during the 1800s, eventually leading to a Civil War. This is quite similar to what the Republican Party is doing today, but with global consequences.
I'm not saying that a Civil War is our future, but I am saying that treason, like the kind being exhibited by the Republican Party will lead to a lot of pain for a lot of people. They are playing a very dangerous game.
With that said, I am all for f*cking sh*t up and rebelling, even if it's for no other reason than to rebel. But not like this. I find this revolting, though it doesn't shake my faith in government; it shakes my faith in humanity.
And you're a mod, you've seen me f*ck sh*t up and rebel with little ground to stand on. So you know that I'm serious when I say that.
thegreekdog wrote:I see what you're saying that I'm not a conspiracy theorist who takes things out of context.
No way, you're a huge conspiracy theorist. I mean-ah, you try to sound impartial, but you're pretty clearly Conservative Libertarian, and as such, you've fallen head-over-heels for the current fox-news type of Conservative news. I think. You talk a lot about conspiracy's in government, just like they do. You're even taking Obama's "suggestion" of a sequestor as some kind of proof... of what exactly? Complacency or something?
Examples that deal directly with things that you've said would be that both partys are entirely sold-out to corporations with rampant corruption, that Dennis Kucinich was kicked out of his party for being just too good, and that both partys are identical because they are both so corrupt. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=184125&p=4030043
The deal isn't that they are so obnoxiously corrupt, it's that you have no appreciation for the immeasurable size of our government or the speed at which such a massive machine moves. I seriously suspect that because you feel like you sold out to corporations as a tax-evasion lawyer, so too you feel like everyone is easily corrupted by corporations or something. I just can't make sense of your opinions without some kind of fix. Part of it I know is that you don't follow politics as closely as I have to, but you follow them closer than the average person and you like to debate them. That's fine, but your information is always behind and you're still condescending about it. I can remember you repeating yourself about how fascinating it is that voters in California keep voting themselves more benefits and deeper in debt. But that was about 30 days after the pledge to balance the budget - which was pretty well covered by Californian press, and like 2 days before they finally balanced it. I didn't call it because I didn't care to, but I did make a thread about it. And there have been other examples.
And when I'm making this point about the slowness of government, I'm saying; look at our goddamn American History, everything from women's rights to monopoly busting takes painfully massive amounts of time to change. The only exception as Dick Cheney said, is when there's a catastrophe to get all of our people to participate.
^^^ And more to the point, each time I showed you why you where wrong in that link, and that you were hypothesizing about conspiracy's, you just walked away without owning up. I'm completely comfortable with saying that I cannot prove that Paul Ryan and Eric Cantor are trying to destroy public trust, but I can point to a string of evidence which is currently being dissected and accepted by free thinkers of both parties. My last write-up about it has over 20,000 shares on Facebook. And that's great that everyone gets this, because information is the key to winning any war. Saxi can prolly tell you more about my duo-identity.
I have no idea why you think that Cantor and Ryan pushed for the sequester, or why you think Obama is working with them secretly or is responsible for their actions or whatever you're alleging. Frankly I don't care because you're very obviously wrong. I'm atmosphere on this b and I left you on the ground.
And another thing - these cuts aren't trifle or ignorable or unimportant like you are mockingly stating. This isn't all wasted funds, this is money that many American families were depending on.http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... n-one-faq/http://query.nytimes.com/search/sitesea ... ester+cuts
There is a tradeoff here. When I post links and actual facts, you either don't respond or you scare up a strawman. So what is the incentive for me? The GAO and the CBO are easy to find.http://www.federal.iastate.edu/sites/de
This is all irrelevant to any point that I have ever made about Cantor and Ryan trying to destroy the public trust in government. There's no tradeoff, you're just trying to make points about stuff that don't impact anything I said, so I ignore it. In fact I already told you that the Sequester itself had nothing to do with the point I made so the CBO would be pretty unimportant as a rebuttal.