thegreekdog wrote: PLAYER57832 wrote:
thegreekdog wrote: They didn't have "their own priests." It has nothing to do with prejudice and everything to do with ignorance. I'm saying it's not true. I'm saying that the sacrament of reconciliation allows people, including criminals, to confess their sins to a priest who will not then tell others about those sins. Therefore, while you may make the ignorant statement that "the mafia had their own priests" and believe it, it's far from the truth.
Sorry greekdog, but I am not wrong here. You can research it, but my information is actually direct. Nor did I intend it as a slight to the Roman Catholic church. Priests are sworn to secrecy, of course, but mafiosa were notoriously suspicious. Actually, the mafia is a pretty interesting topic in and of itself. Here is a bit about more modern involvement, I include it because its from Philadelphia. http://articles.philly.com/1999-08-10/n ... ime-family
Anyway, protestants tend to take a very different view on confession and forgiveness of sins. For us, it is something directly with God and no priest has the authority to truly erase any sin, even minor ones. And, forgiveness doesn't "undo" the sin... it is just forgiveness.
I honestly just meant it as a side joke. My husband's family is Italien. None of them would even question the statement.
I'm still not really sure what you're getting at here. On the one hand, you said it was a joke. On the other hand, you seem to be defending the position that "the Mafia had its own priests." That implies that there were priests that were either part of the Mafia or were beholden to the mafia.
Yes, there were.
thegreekdog wrote: Your statement is incorrect. Did priests serve the Mafia as part of their congregations? Sure. Is that what you mean? If it is, then we can move on. If not, then I need something more substantial than a link to a philly.com article showing that priests merely serviced the community, which included alleged Mafia members in Philadelphia.
I think you are misunderstanding, perhaps intentionally, what I said.
I am not suggesting, nor did I say, that priest were out shooting people or involved directly in mafia crime. I am saying that mafia families would support, make sure that some of “their own” became priests. The mafia members would then go to those specific priests. ALL priests are sworn to secrecy, sure, but just like anything else, an oath is no guarantee.
Understand, its not stereotype to say that the mafia were involved with the Italian community, almost without exception. Partly, it went back to “old country” ties and how they operated in Italy… to even come here often meant having some kind of association or ties to the mafia. Partly, once they got here there was extreme prejudice and even average people needed some kind of protection. If you wanted to work, etc you generally needed help from mafia. Going out “on your own” was possible, but very difficult because prejudice was so strong, even aside from things like not knowing English, etc. In those days, prejudice meant that a lot of non-Italien priests might not give Italiens, in general the reception they should. (the same would happen with Native Americans, other groups). In most cases, the priest who was prejudiced would either deny or justify the actions. (these people just need harsher treatment, or they won’t learn.. more or less). Add it all and it is no surprise at all that the mafia would make sure that some of their own community got into the priesthood.
The part I found ironic about it is why would someone think they can just go out and do harm with impunity and then somehow have it all just erased and made OK because they confessed to a priest. Understand, I don’t believe that is precisely what Roman Catholic theology teaches (they teach erasure of sins, but not that you can just go and sin again with impunity), but it is what a lot of people seem to think.
So, the “joke” part was that some Roman Catholics seem to think they can go be criminals, even mafiosa, and then go get forgiven as if nothing had happened. The real part was that, yes, it did actually happen… even if that is not a full and true understanding of Roman Catholic doctrine.