stahrgazer wrote: tzor wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:However, with good and evil, you can pretty much accept that that which promotes humanity is good, and that which does not, is evil.
No. Not only is that a sloppy definition of good and evil, it's a generally wrong one.
crispybits wrote:Elves don't exist (or at least we've never found evidence that they do), but we can choose how to perceive them.
No, but you freely admit we can choose to perceive them as light or dark, and it's light and dark/good and evil that I'm claiming exists because we can perceive them, not "elves."
I said from the first that these concepts are written down in the bible to help us understand the universe. I've also said that actions we interpret may not always fall on the "absolute" side of these scales.
Your notion of killing the killer before he kills your family is a good one; "thou shalt not kill," is biblical, and killing itself doesn't promote humanity, so is on the "evil side," even if "killing to protect my family," is "less evil" than, "killing because I'm evil."
The greater good//less evil might be for you to protect your family but spare that killer's life, so that he can live to reform and find that HIV cure.
I don't have to believe in a "God of Abraham" to perceive that some things are good, some things are not, and some things are less good or maybe a little less bad... and obviously, neither do you.
So, God and Satan may exist, and may not, but the concepts of good and evil that they define, surely exist; even if we, ourselves, a're not able to perceive the full future ramifications of our actions as they occur.
Sorry, your logic is flawed. Simply because we perceive there to be a force of evil and good, does not mean there is one, any more than "the force" exists, simply because many perceive it to exist. Dont even pretend that is not true.
Further, your definition of what promotes human kind is incredibly vague to the point that it makes it seem naive on an near childish level. In fact, it completely discounts the entire "do the ends justify the means" argument, and that's just for starters:
If I kill one person is it evil?
If I kill one person and it saves one person is it evil?
If I kill one person and it saves two people is it evil?
If I kill one person and it saves 1000 people is it evil?
If I kill one person and it saves 1 billion people is it evil?
If I choose not to kill a person, and it kills 1 billion is it evil?
Some of those acts very much promote overall human good. A couple so overwhelmingly, that one might consider not commiting an evil act, as to be even more evil. To carry it even further, and more complexly:
If I think that I need to kill one person, to save 1 billion, does that make it evil?
If I think that I need to kill one person to save 1 billion, and dont does that make it evil?
Again, evil does not exist. You simply choose to define it one way or another, and most will argue about the relative, evil and good of all those acts, but any that really consider the broad implications, will realize there really is not good or evil, but only choice, that leads to an outcome, which some consider evil, and some consider good.
When terrorists blew up the trade towers most considered it evil, but some considered it doing God's will.
The outcome, by any definition of what we consider evil, was indeed evil, but from the perspective of the terrorists, it was absolutely the exact opposite. They in fact, considered their acts of divine necessity and gave their lives towards that end. It is possible, from their perspective that it was not an evil act.
However, some may simply have wanted to kill a bunch of people out of a sense of revenge or simple murderous intent, which would make it fit the definition of evil much better, but it does not mean it brings into existence, some powerful entity of evil.
All there really is, is our perception of it, and while in advertising, perception is reality, in reality, perception is just perception, and reality is only reality.
So, while you perceive a force of evil, that does not make it reality, only your perception, and whatever the reality is, it is, and there is absolutely no way to definitively state there is a force of good or evil, but only some abstract construct of perception of them, or essentially, a belief that they exist, with no real physical proof either way.