gov't to withdraw 10% from everyone's bank accounts

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Re: gov't to withdraw 10% from everyone's bank accounts

Postby Fruitcake on Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:55 pm

crispybits wrote:Nice post fruitcake. Are you seriously interested and eductated about this stuff or was that a copy/paste job from somewhere else? (No insult intended, either way it's very informative)


I do actually trade in the forex markets and am deeply interested in all things financial on a Global scale. I spend around 3 hours a day researching, reading and following what is happening. You can find my obvious interest if you search back in this forum some years. I think if you search for the word 'mammon' you will find my early posts

Fc
Last edited by Fruitcake on Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: gov't to withdraw 10% from everyone's bank accounts

Postby Fruitcake on Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:06 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:Fc, how much of the pro-European Project mindset gears this dilemma? For decades, further unification of Europe was sought, and with the prospect of it all crumbling (or partially crumbling), it seems that many in power are extremely reluctant in any regression of unification.

For example, with Greece, the EU/European Commission simply should've let Greece go out of the Euro zone. Instead, they imagined terrifying slippery slopes, so they--along with the ECB and IMF--gobbled up the Greek securities from the non-Greek banks who previously owned the Greek securities. Now, this merely prolonged the problems, and given that Greek government is essentially being rewarded for neglecting its implicit side of agreement (i.e. austerity), then the Greek government will holds hands with the ECB, IMF, and European Commission as they merrily continue kicking the can down the road and causing all these other problems.

How much of this is due to that "European unification" sentiment?


I have been accused of being something of a crazy gang member for some of my hypotheses. But truly, I believe the objective of a centralised Europe whereby a select Political class rules has been the core objective for many years, but to be honest, this is a subject for a dinner and for a few hours articulation (along with some fine wine of course!)

In short, I believe that once the common currency was born a huge step had been taken. To undo this would unravel so much of the progress made in the onward march for a unified Europe rules by one body. The problem was always that unification of currency took place via a series of fudges. These included literally cooking the books of the Med countries to show they fitted the one size fits all strategy. This was madness to any one watching.

The grand plan is now so woven into the fabric of European society generally that a failure is unthinkable. However, I still believe that at some point the Euro will unravel. whether this happens in my lifetime is debatable. The question is always, what are the Germans going to do. After all, they have been the effective paymasters for some time now.

I can only applaud the cursed son of manse (Gordon brown) for the one decision he took which was correct, that of not joining the Euro when the opportunity presented itself.
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Re: gov't to withdraw 10% from everyone's bank accounts

Postby Fruitcake on Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:26 pm

Further to my post above. Just crunched the numbers. I estimate that should the Med countries et al fail, the losses could amount to $1 trillion. That's a pretty good reason to keep putting off the fateful day.
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Re: gov't to withdraw 10% from everyone's bank accounts

Postby Juan_Bottom on Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:16 pm

So what's the deal with the Russians now? Their government is going to remove all of it's money invested into Western banks and is encouraging all Russian citizens to do the same?
How accurate is this? I'm reading some weird stuff, you guys. But then, this whole situation is weird...
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Re: gov't to withdraw 10% from everyone's bank accounts

Postby Fruitcake on Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:08 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:So what's the deal with the Russians now? Their government is going to remove all of it's money invested into Western banks and is encouraging all Russian citizens to do the same?
How accurate is this? I'm reading some weird stuff, you guys. But then, this whole situation is weird...


First up, the Russians wont deal with the Cypriots, so no progress there. Looks like the Cypriot Govt is going to have to plunder state assets, including pensions, and split the Cyprus Popular Bank by shifting the 'good' stuff into one vehicle and shifting the 'bad' stuff into another. It all sounds pretty desperate, but then it is desperate times in which they find themselves.

Regarding the Russians. The Govt isn't going to remove all of it's money invested, that would be certifiable. What has happened is a shift in policy from outward investment to inward.
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Re: gov't to withdraw 10% from everyone's bank accounts

Postby Gillipig on Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:46 am

If I were from Cyprus I'd be so pissed. But then I'd be from Cyprus and probably be a completely different person so I can't know if I would be pissed.
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Re: gov't to withdraw 10% from everyone's bank accounts

Postby Fruitcake on Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:15 am

Further news regarding the Russian cold shoulder.

It transpires that Cyprus removed a gas license from Novatek, one of Russia's largest Natgas producers based in Moscow, last year. Having entered into advanced negotiations them late October to begin exploratory drilling, the Cypriot Govt. then broke off licensing negotiations at the beginning of December. Word is, there were some pretty pissed off Russians at this decision. Some pundits have got it all wrong, saying the license was transferred to Total Oil (France) however, this is incorrect. In fact Total own 15% of Novatek. the license negotiations were, in fact, transferred to a company composed of Italy's ENI S.p.a and South Korea's Kogas for the same area that the Russian-French consortium had sought to drill in. Total then entered into negotiations on its own for exploration on another block.

To add insult to injury, Cyprus then showed a marked increase in its desire for closer ties with NATO.

It would not surprise me to see this as a game of brinkmanship. Germany (and Europe) want to lessen dependence on Russian gas so the fields around Cyprus (if the numbers are to be believed) would assist this policy greatly. I need say no more.
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Re: gov't to withdraw 10% from everyone's bank accounts

Postby Juan_Bottom on Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:22 pm

This whole situation is insanely interesting.
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Re: gov't to withdraw 10% from everyone's bank accounts

Postby Fruitcake on Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:38 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:This whole situation is insanely interesting.


Insane is a pretty apt word to be using.
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Re: gov't to withdraw 10% from everyone's bank accounts

Postby Fruitcake on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:40 pm

The central bank in Cyprus has imposed a €100 per day withdrawal limit at cash machines for all local banks today to avert a run. Withdrawals had been limited to €260 up to today.
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Re: gov't to withdraw 10% from everyone's bank accounts

Postby Fruitcake on Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:00 pm

So the news is the ECB will get what it wants from Cyprus. After what seems to have been a week of brinkmanship the Cypriots are having to throw their hand in. A summary of their proposal is:

The two banks with the biggest problems will be restructured with uninsured creditors taking a 40% haircut. This covers a lot of the €5.8 billion required (it should be noted that there are rumours the troika has upped the ante to €6.7 billion, but this is not confirmed). Whatever, the balance looks like coming from the uninsured deposits (ie. over €100,000).

There is a significant part of this not yet really thought about. Capital controls. These will be required to stop a run which is bound to happen otherwise. the Russians are threatening to remove their deposits should the haircut be applied...(there is also a strong word that many of the wealthiest had already shifted their cash into other countries). However, if the Russians did follow through on their threat, it would quickly render the banks insolvent regardless of how much money was pumped in (€10 billion from the ECB would only scratch the surface).

The real nub of the matter is this. if these Capital controls are introduced, you effectively have a currency removed from the Euro system. Cypriot Euros would be severely limited in their movement, so getting them out of Cyprus near to impossible. This would, in effect, make them pretty worthless in the Euro zone (imagine, if you will, Scotland being told their Scottish pounds were no longer acceptable in England). Monetary union is about free capital flows. take this basic tenet away and you do not have monetary union. The part of that union, no longer able to trade freely and transfer capital freely is no longer a part of that union. QED, the Cypriot Euro cannot and should not then be considered a part of the Euro zone as it really becomes, once again, a national currency. This could well be the first move in ejecting it from the Euro all together.
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Re: gov't to withdraw 10% from everyone's bank accounts

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:13 pm

LOL, one thing I like about the French is they are frank ...

"To all those who say that we are strangling an entire people ... Cyprus is a casino economy that was on the brink of bankruptcy," [French Finance Minister Pierre Moscovici] told Canal Plus television.


So this happened in Iceland, now it's happening in Cyprus ... Fruitcake, will the Canary Islands and Switzerland be next?
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Re: gov't to withdraw 10% from everyone's bank accounts

Postby Pedronicus on Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:36 pm

It's nice to see a tax haven getting fucked. Word is that all investors are now getting nervous about their tax evasion cash being taxed by a country with a banking industry with liabilities that are greater than their countries GDP. ....Switzerland

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-24/switzerland-next-swiss-banks-set-foward-confidential-bank-client-data-us-officials
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Re: gov't to withdraw 10% from everyone's bank accounts

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:09 pm

Bank of Cyprus just reopened early, courtesy a bomb ...

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Re: gov't to withdraw 10% from everyone's bank accounts

Postby rishaed on Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:14 pm

Well thats one way to get your money. . .
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