Rap sucks. period.

[Fircoal]

Many tracks provide brilliant social commentary, are intensely political or provoke a stark atmosphere through brilliant lyrical imagery. If you want examples I can provide them.

Care to name a few?
Honestly, i've never heard a rap song thats not about partying, sex, drugs, violence, or about how much money they have while at the same time they're ghetto. I don't really care too much for that subject matter, nor is rap in general appealing to me.
Maybe thats because I don't really care for it and haven't heard more than whats forced upon me during daily life--Radio, loud people rapping to themselves near me when i'm standing outside, parties, etc.
Now I wont deny the talent, as freestyle requires you to be intelligent and quick if its good at all.. I can honestly say I respect that.. I sure as hell couldn't do that if my life depended on it.

In the end i'd take rock or metal, anything like that, over rap.. But to say that all rap in general is shit is kinda close-minded.

ACtually, THere is barely, any music that is not about partying, sex, rugs, violence, death, money, ghetto, or love. Sucky themes are in all music.

[Guiscard]

1. Guiscard, if you got offended by my rap parody style, then I'm a little disappointed in you. Idiots like Fifty Cent talk like that on the radio to make a living, and lampooning it is just not offensive at all. Mainstream rappers talk like that; I was impersonating mainstream rappers. It was a fair thing to do. Sorry.

No offence meant, chap, was just off on a rant... Was just that you and incrediball didn't seem to be helping the situation in terms of how Jenos sees hip-hop music... He's not gonna actually read what you've written (which is pretty funny). I more meant insulting to my attempts to convince Jenos, and I think it was more directed at Incrediball but no worries. We'll forget it. Glad to see you share my opinions. One less closed-minded rock fan is fine by me!

And Good Charlotte is probably a good metaphor for the rap Jenos has come accross, so thanks for that too.

[Psilocbin]

you mofo!

danicin' mustard is a pile of crap,
thinks he's so hot wid his bitch-ass rap!
He aint' no playa an he aint' so fine,
i'm gonna make this party mine all mine!

i'm gonna have sex wid his mom tonight,
me an her in bed, what a pretty sight!
I'll sell his daughter to a paedophile,
and feed his gramma to a crocodile!

his whole country is a pile of shit,
unless he's from britain, but he aint'allowed there... innit?
there's one thing the world can do without,
that's dancin' mustard, now everybody shout!

put your hands up, put your hands up

WORD!

Weak.

[Jenos Ridan]

I don't think you understood that "underground" rapper correctly - I strongly doubt he meant his form of personal expression "sucks. period." maybe he was trying to accentuate the poetic (non-musical) aspects of his work, differentiate between what he does and others - I don't want to put words in the guy's mouth. But it just really pisses me off when people say "rap" (or any broad, all encompassing spectrum, like specific religions) suck, are racist, misogynistic, etc. PERIOD.

Oh, and I feel we're missing how moronic most musical lyrics sound when you take it out of the music. For ex., I love Manowar, but the lyrics? If you just wrote the lyrics down and said, "hey, this stuff sucks, look how dumb the lyrics are", you'd agree. So just... shut up, and this thread is wrong. Not saying rap is better or worse than anything else, but it doesn't suck / is a bad influence as much as a lot of people think. PERIOD.

He told me "Rap isn't music. It's an acronym for Rythem And Poetry." And he was quiet clear on this pertaining to ALL Rap! 'Real' music has more than just witty words and a half-decent rythem, it is a piece of art that takes you on a journey into the mind or world the musician is painting with notes for you to enjoy.... Sorry, did I just get all weird and philosophic all the sudden? It happens sometimes:wink: .

[Jenos Ridan]

Mothafucka, there ain't no end to this bitch! Hip-hop is for life. It's gonna take more than a handful of cracka fools representing from your fancy hoods to end this shit. You need to check your attitutde homeboy, you ain't got no vocabulary, you ain't gonna step to me and survive. You dig? You feeling me? I'm gon shank you nine-times for every word I hear out your mouth which be disrespecting hip-hop. This is the killing season. I'ma body whack MC's like you in garbage cans son. End your shit before I end it for you, for real. Respect it dawg, I been waiting for this shit my whole mothafucking life; I been ready to kill your ass, waiting since the day I was born; you hear? Waiting on this with a gauge boy. Don't test the hip-hop again or I'm gonna knock you out your shell-toes with a fucking bat. Word to my man Guiscard, word to my man Spurgistan. Eastside bloods for life!

<Insert random gang-sign, which I probably made up off the top of my head, here>

Surprisingly, I do "dig" what you are saying. I just don't care to hear it! As for 'surviving', I'll outlive you because as the song goes "because heros never die" (Blood of Heroes, from Youthanasia). And again, you try and threaten me. Hmmm, you attack with bat, I shoot you dead cold. Death threats mean NOTHING to me, especially since you are so (painfully) obiviously not the badass you claim to be. If I ever actually met you, I'm sure to find some lame, girly little 13-year-old punk with dope-dreams of godhood. I'm not going to bother describing how this will go down, it would be over to soon.

[Dancing Mustard]

Oh dear, looks like somebody hasn't installed the Firefox 'Irony and satire Detector' plugin...

I think we're all done here; Jenos doesn't understand which posts are jokes; and he finds logical arguments which crush his flimsy opinion, he pretends not to see them.

Seriously Jenos. Go back and read the post I wrote that wasn't all in rhyme, and come back when you think you have an answer. Better still, go read Guiscard's last few posts to you, and actually try to logically refute them.
At the moment all you're doing is making sweeping generalisations with no grounding in reality; and repeating this one anecdote about some guy you claim to have met, who you believe authoritatively summed up an entire genre in a sentence.

Seriously, if you want to debate this, then start debating. If you just want to shout and make a lot of noise, go to flame wars.

<Obligatory gang signs and gun-sound sfx here, just to prove I'm keeping it real and haven't turned into a serious debater yet. Trust me, back with the silly parodies later. For real. Peace>

[Jenos Ridan]

Oh dear, looks like somebody hasn't installed the Firefox 'Irony and satire Detector' plugin...

I think we're all done here; Jenos doesn't understand which posts are jokes; and he finds logical parts which crush his flimsy argument, he pretends not to see them.

Seriously Jenos. Go back and read the post I wrote that wasn't all in rhyme, and come back when you think you have an answer. Better still, go read Guiscard's last few posts to you, and actually try to logically refute them.
At the moment all you're doing is making sweeping generalisations with no grounding in reality; and repeating this one anecdote about some guy you claim to have met, who claims to have summed up an entire genre in a sentence.

Seriously, if you want to debate this, then start debating. If you just want to shout and make a lot of noise, go to flame wars.

<Obligatory gang signs and gun-sound sfx here, just to prove I'm keeping it real and haven't turned into a serious debater yet. Trust me, back with the silly parodies later. For real. Peace>

My whole argument is that Rap isn't music. I never said it wasn't ART, just not music. As for understanding jokes, I'd have found humor in you idiotic posts either way; if they were genuine, I laugh in your face. And sence they were fake, it goes on to prove another point: Rappers are ALL fake. I recall a post not to long ago were someone pointed that out. Rock and Metal bands don't need to put on an act, they ARE the act. What is Mick Jagger's real name. As far as I know, Mick Jagger. Who was Bon Scott? Bon Scott. And so ad infinatam. It would seem more Rap/Hip-Hop 'stars' have a lot in comman with lame acts like Bono, Madonna and the like.

Logical refute utter crap? Why bother, you ignore my posts.

[Skittles!]

Get over it.
You like different types of music to other people. there's no need to say one sucks and one doesn't, as everyone has different tastes.

So Jenos, Stfu for once.

[Iliad]

Oh dear, looks like somebody hasn't installed the Firefox 'Irony and satire Detector' plugin...

I think we're all done here; Jenos doesn't understand which posts are jokes; and he finds logical parts which crush his flimsy argument, he pretends not to see them.

Seriously Jenos. Go back and read the post I wrote that wasn't all in rhyme, and come back when you think you have an answer. Better still, go read Guiscard's last few posts to you, and actually try to logically refute them.
At the moment all you're doing is making sweeping generalisations with no grounding in reality; and repeating this one anecdote about some guy you claim to have met, who claims to have summed up an entire genre in a sentence.

Seriously, if you want to debate this, then start debating. If you just want to shout and make a lot of noise, go to flame wars.

<Obligatory gang signs and gun-sound sfx here, just to prove I'm keeping it real and haven't turned into a serious debater yet. Trust me, back with the silly parodies later. For real. Peace>

My whole argument is that Rap isn't music. I never said it wasn't ART, just not music. As for understanding jokes, I'd have found humor in you idiotic posts either way; if they were genuine, I laugh in your face. And sence they were fake, it goes on to prove another point: Rappers are ALL fake. I recall a post not to long ago were someone pointed that out. Rock and Metal bands don't need to put on an act, they ARE the act. What is Mick Jagger's real name. As far as I know, Mick Jagger. Who was Bon Scott? Bon Scott. And so ad infinatam. It would seem more Rap/Hip-Hop 'stars' have a lot in comman with lame acts like Bono, Madonna and the like.

Logical refute utter crap? Why bother, you ignore my posts.

dude he was IRONIC he was just making fun at rap at you blatantly didn't see that and now you are trying to backtrack with a random comment about names.

[Jenos Ridan]

Oh dear, looks like somebody hasn't installed the Firefox 'Irony and satire Detector' plugin...

I think we're all done here; Jenos doesn't understand which posts are jokes; and he finds logical parts which crush his flimsy argument, he pretends not to see them.

Seriously Jenos. Go back and read the post I wrote that wasn't all in rhyme, and come back when you think you have an answer. Better still, go read Guiscard's last few posts to you, and actually try to logically refute them.
At the moment all you're doing is making sweeping generalisations with no grounding in reality; and repeating this one anecdote about some guy you claim to have met, who claims to have summed up an entire genre in a sentence.

Seriously, if you want to debate this, then start debating. If you just want to shout and make a lot of noise, go to flame wars.

<Obligatory gang signs and gun-sound sfx here, just to prove I'm keeping it real and haven't turned into a serious debater yet. Trust me, back with the silly parodies later. For real. Peace>

My whole argument is that Rap isn't music. I never said it wasn't ART, just not music. As for understanding jokes, I'd have found humor in you idiotic posts either way; if they were genuine, I laugh in your face. And sence they were fake, it goes on to prove another point: Rappers are ALL fake. I recall a post not to long ago were someone pointed that out. Rock and Metal bands don't need to put on an act, they ARE the act. What is Mick Jagger's real name. As far as I know, Mick Jagger. Who was Bon Scott? Bon Scott. And so ad infinatam. It would seem more Rap/Hip-Hop 'stars' have a lot in comman with lame acts like Bono, Madonna and the like.

Logical refute utter crap? Why bother, you ignore my posts.

dude he was IRONIC he was just making fun at rap at you blatantly didn't see that and now you are trying to backtrack with a random comment about names.

Hardly a random comment. Rap and Hip-hop, as describe here, is all about a false presence. If they were the 'street mo'fos' that they claimed to be, why the over-blown self-importance?

The fact was he wasn't real, therefore not "keepin' it real". However, I'll concede on the point that is was ment to be taken in a humorous light.

[Jenos Ridan]

Get over it.
You like different types of music to other people. there's no need to say one sucks and one doesn't, as everyone has different tastes.

So Jenos, Stfu for once.

Responding to last part first: MAKE ME.

To the rest: What others consider music, I call noise. However, can we all agree that pop music, 'country' and a few others indeed suck? If so, I concede.

[Dancing Mustard]

My whole argument is that Rap isn't music. I never said it wasn't ART, just not music.

Well that's a sudden and unexpected twist. Unfortuneatly you've missed the fact that rap has all the constituent parts required to classify as music. Rhytmn, melody, pitch, organised into a sequence of regular sounds and silences. Y'know, just like rock, except it sounds different.
So not only is rap an art, it's also music. If you have any kind of facts to refute that then go right ahead and show us; right now you're just making another sweeping statement and hoping it sticks.

As for understanding jokes, I'd have found humor in you idiotic posts either way; if they were genuine, I laugh in your face. And sence they were fake, it goes on to prove another point: Rappers are ALL fake.

Whoops! There you go again. Just because a man at a computer did a fake parody of rappers, does not mean that all rappers are 'fake'. If my next post contained a parody of a rock band, then would all rockers suddenly be fake?
Do you even think before you type? Seriously, quit trying to use people's words out of context, and move on from random generalisations; they might work on your friends in the playground, but they're just not good enough here

I recall a post not to long ago were someone pointed that out. Rock and Metal bands don't need to put on an act, they ARE the act. What is Mick Jagger's real name. As far as I know, Mick Jagger. Who was Bon Scott? Bon Scott. And so ad infinatam. It would seem more Rap/Hip-Hop 'stars' have a lot in comman with lame acts like Bono, Madonna and the like.

Oh god, you never stop do you?
Rock bands are as much of an act as rap bands. Do you actually think Ozzy Osbourne bites the heads off of bats when he's not acting on a stage? Do you really think Slipknot's faces look like that? Do you think their real names are 0, 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8? Let me guess, you probably also imagine that Wednesday18 has that name on his driving license? Who knows, perhaps you imagine that the lead singer of My Chemical Romance actually does have cancer, and isn't just pretending to in all of their stage performances in order to 'put on a show'? What a blissful ignorance it must be to imagine all of those things are somehow real, and less 'fake' than a rapper giving himself a stage-name.
C'mon, metal bands on stage are performing. They don't act like that in real life; they are projecting larger-than-life personas. Furthermore their lyrics are frequently over the top and/or detatched from reality. The personas they project are distinct from rap personas, but they are equally artificial.

I've reached a point where I'm not convinced you're actually trying to debate any more. If you're happy just making generalisations and inventing facts in order to maintain your cocoon of ignorance then that's just fine by me.
If you ever post anything logical in this thread, I'll respond to it. But until them I'm going to ignore you here, because you're living in a dream-world.
Either start debating (with facts and logic) or go make some noise in Flame Wars.

[Jenos Ridan]

And yet, when I call for a cease-fire, you keep on coming (sigh). As for living in a fantasy, so do you if you trully think I'm ever going to change my mind. Or the mind of Jnd94, for that matter. Deadhard rockers and metalheads will NEVER see eye-to-eye with rap fans. The stubborn refusal on my part to agrue the way you would like is representative of that and is VERY MUCH a facade .

[Backglass]

Show me ONE 'rapper' who isn't a career criminal or a rap sheet.

Will Smith.

Deadhard rockers and metalheads will NEVER see eye-to-eye with rap fans.

Which is why it's good to be both. I am in the music business and if there is one thing I have learned, it's that there are great songs/artists and shit in all genres. Rap, Metal, Country, Polka, Emo, Progressive, Alternative, Pop, Rhythmic, Classical, Tejano...you name it.

You just have to have an open mind and ear.

If Bon Scott came back from the grave

But he wont be coming back because he was a supreme dumb ass who choked to death on his own vomit.

Like rap, common sense and talent don't always go hand in hand.

[Guiscard]

My whole argument is that Rap isn't music. I never said it wasn't ART, just not music. As for understanding jokes, I'd have found humor in you idiotic posts either way; if they were genuine, I laugh in your face. And sence they were fake, it goes on to prove another point: Rappers are ALL fake. I recall a post not to long ago were someone pointed that out. Rock and Metal bands don't need to put on an act, they ARE the act. What is Mick Jagger's real name. As far as I know, Mick Jagger. Who was Bon Scott? Bon Scott. And so ad infinatam. It would seem more Rap/Hip-Hop 'stars' have a lot in comman with lame acts like Bono, Madonna and the like.

Logical refute utter crap? Why bother, you ignore my posts.

OK I'll just say this one more time in big large letters so you get it into your close-minded skull...

I AM A HIP-HOP PRODUCER AND DJ. THAT MEANS I BOTH MAKE AND PLAY RAP MUSIC, AM INVOLVED WITH ALL ASPECTS OF THE SCENE AND KNOW A HELL OF A LOT MORE ABOUT WHAT IS INVOLVED, THE HISTORY, THE TECHNIQUES, THE PROCESSES AND THE MUSIC THAN YOU DO. YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT I DEVOTE A LARGE PROPORTION OF MY LIFE TO AND IT IS SIMPLY IGNORANT TO COMPLETELY IGNORE EVERY ARGUMENT I'VE MADE IN FAVOUR OF ONE GUY YOU TALKED TO ONCE YOU SAID 'RAP WASN'T MUSIC'.

OK. Rant over. Now I'll be civil.

I also play guitar, bass and trumpet and have played in bands both at recording studios and gigs. I know both sides of music production inside out. I'm telling you from personal expereince that hip-hop music is a hell of a lot more complicated and has much higher production values than the vast majority of rock out there. Even the mainstream crap you insist on basing your ignorance on has rock solid production, even if I don't favour the beats and rhymes.

It.

Is.

Music.

And it is also art. I am a musician. You have no idea what kind of skill it takes to create drum-tracks, work with samples, create original melodies and suchlike. You aren't a producer. I am. I tried to explain sampling earlier in another post but you seem to have ignored that too.

Hip-hop music can take you on just as much of a musical journey as rock can, and I've shown this already (but again, you seem to have ignored it...) As an example, since reading this thread a forum member has downloaded the Jehst song I posted and PM'd me to say that, although he's usually not into rap, that he loved it. Now if only you could perhaps open your eyes a little in the same way.

I'm not asking you to listen to rap music, but what I AM asking you to do is stop being so damned closed-minded and ignorant, to stop basing your opinions off of mainstream rap (a point which has been successfully refuted countless times) and to just admit that, in this case, you're being silly. I wouldn't judge all rock music on Good Charlotte and My Chemical Romance, and so you shouldn't judge all Hip-Hop on 50 Cent or Eminem.

Just face it - you're 100% wrong here and you know it. we've provided logical arguments, proof and you're the only one still here arguing the toss.Dancing Mustard has pretty much said everything I would say about the 'fakeness' of rappers, and like him I'm gonna leave this one now. I'm fed up of your ridiculous, ignorant and closed minded arguments and, frankly, incredibly insulting attack on what, to one degree or another, is my life. Take it to flame wars if you want to take this further, but don't carry on these fantastical pantomime diatribes.

[static_ice]

I am a metalhead, but I also enjoy a little rap and techno here and there, definitely not mainstream (because I hate mainstream rock, too). The reason that I enjoy all three is because I see distinct similarities between all 3 genres. The "backbeat" is one example and I'm sure guiscard would know all about that, and anyone who bothered to look up anything about broad musical history (from 1900's to present) would see how all three genres branched out...from the same trunk.

I also like a little jazz, not all but some, because I find similarities in the mood.

I wouldn't judge all rock music on Good Charlotte and My Chemical Romance, and so you shouldn't judge all Hip-Hop on 50 Cent or Eminem.

exactly. Just like those stupid boomers and the generation before them judge ALL rock from the modern days by looking at a crappy vulgar screamo band and thinking all modern rock bands hate religion, swear excessively, and scream their vocal cords out

not that I hate screamo either, I like it in small portions...

[Wisse]

sorry for not reading the whole thread but i had to say this,

METAL?! That's just about death, not much variety there either.

not all the metal is about death, only some death metal songs
and if you look at metal, it has much variation in it, it doesn't look like it when you first hear it, but when you hear it a lot you will see it

[Guiscard]

not all the metal is about death, only some death metal songs
and if you look at metal, it has much variation in it, it doesn't look like it when you first hear it, but when you hear it a lot you will see it

Spot on. And hip-hop is exactly the same...

[UCAbears]

ahhh rap is ok some of it anyway.. but im a bigger fan of rock!

[luns101]

I AM A HIP-HOP PRODUCER AND DJ. THAT MEANS I BOTH MAKE AND PLAY RAP MUSIC, AM INVOLVED WITH ALL ASPECTS OF THE SCENE

I also play guitar, bass and trumpet and have played in bands both at recording studios and gigs.

How do you find enough time to study?....AND play Risk!

[Jenos Ridan]

Get over it.
You like different types of music to other people. there's no need to say one sucks and one doesn't, as everyone has different tastes.

So Jenos, Stfu for once.

If that is the whole point of this thread, then why is it called "Rap suck. Period"? how bout the Opening Post?

I concede on the point about different tastes, as I hardly like EVERYTHING my buds listen to and visa-versa. But can we then find styles NOBODY here likes and trash on them ?

[safariguy5]

I think the rap/rock fusion stuff is pretty good. Personally, I like the Gorillaz and the Linkin Park/Jay-Z stuff. Incidentally, I think Fort Minor is pretty good too.

I know there are people who hate Linkin Park and want to rip my guts out, but I'm just saying what I like.

[Guiscard]

How do you find enough time to study?....AND play Risk!

With great difficulty...

[Jenos Ridan]

I think the rap/rock fusion stuff is pretty good. Personally, I like the Gorillaz and the Linkin Park/Jay-Z stuff. Incidentally, I think Fort Minor is pretty good too.

I know there are people who hate Linkin Park and want to rip my guts out, but I'm just saying what I like.

On the Rock Music Thread, I posted by favs. Should look'um up.

[Guiscard]

I think the rap/rock fusion stuff is pretty good. Personally, I like the Gorillaz and the Linkin Park/Jay-Z stuff. Incidentally, I think Fort Minor is pretty good too.

I know there are people who hate Linkin Park and want to rip my guts out, but I'm just saying what I like.

On the Rock Music Thread, I posted by favs. Should look'um up.

Why? Rock sucks. Period.