Conquer Club

http://news.yahoo.com/north-koreas-mili ... 50990.html

Ever since Kim Jung Jr took over, North Korea has been like a kicked ant hill, but without actually being kicked. Now they're threatening to bomb pretty much anything Japanese or US that their missiles can reach (like bases and ships in the area).


One has to think China is about to throw their hands up in disgust over this, though with 1500 dead pigs floating in a river and their EPA declaring said river safe to drink from, you have to wonder how much further off they are.

US Korea rattle their sabres by holding military drills.
Then there's the anti-NK sanctions too.
Oh, and let's not forget the shift in US foreign policy toward NK during the Bush administration, which starkly differs with previous US foreign policy toward NK (which was essentially, 'we don't care about you').

NK then rattles its sabre to say, 'we're not afraid'.

You have to take into account both sides and their actions in this scenario to get the fuller picture. If not, then it's pretty much alarmist/sensationalism.

BigBallinStalin wrote:US Korea rattle their sabres by holding military drills.
Then there's the anti-NK sanctions too.
Oh, and let's not forget the shift in US foreign policy toward NK during the Bush administration, which starkly differs with previous US foreign policy toward NK (which was essentially, 'we don't care about you').

NK then rattles its sabre to say, 'we're not afraid'.

You have to take into account both sides and their actions in this scenario to get the fuller picture. If not, then it's pretty much alarmist/sensationalism.

The sanctions were also heavily backed by North Korea's lone ally China, and these sanctions are simply luxury items like ipods.

But the overall stance towards NK has been one where the US has been trying to make peace with them with "ambassadors" and representatives. A military drill that is done publicly right across the border is not a sign of eminant warfare. Maybe a message saying "See what we can do? Back off or you may get a taste of it." Meaning, if NK becomes the aggressor my luanching missiles or invading across the divide, then the US and South Korean troops will counter strike.

Let's not forget Japan, who techinically doesn't even have a standing army (they cannot legally call it that, due to the treaty they signed after WWII). They are also being talked about as a target by North Korea. Granted, the Far East countries have a deep seated hatred of eachother in general, this is open warfare we're talking about.

muy_thaiguy wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:US Korea rattle their sabres by holding military drills.
Then there's the anti-NK sanctions too.
Oh, and let's not forget the shift in US foreign policy toward NK during the Bush administration, which starkly differs with previous US foreign policy toward NK (which was essentially, 'we don't care about you').

NK then rattles its sabre to say, 'we're not afraid'.

You have to take into account both sides and their actions in this scenario to get the fuller picture. If not, then it's pretty much alarmist/sensationalism.

The sanctions were also heavily backed by North Korea's lone ally China, and these sanctions are simply luxury items like ipods.

But the overall stance towards NK has been one where the US has been trying to make peace with them with "ambassadors" and representatives. A military drill that is done publicly right across the border is not a sign of eminant warfare. Maybe a message saying "See what we can do? Back off or you may get a taste of it." Meaning, if NK becomes the aggressor my luanching missiles or invading across the divide, then the US and South Korean troops will counter strike.

Let's not forget Japan, who techinically doesn't even have a standing army (they cannot legally call it that, due to the treaty they signed after WWII). They are also being talked about as a target by North Korea. Granted, the Far East countries have a deep seated hatred of eachother in general, this is open warfare we're talking about.

You can think all that, but it's not how NK perceives the situation. Mobilizing a military of roughly 10k-30k for military drills can be alarming, and the usual response by those who are definitely the target of intimidation (NK) is "we're not scared," thus the ongoing sabre-rattling response by NK.

The general pattern of NK missile tests is as follows:

1. NK launches a missile.
2. US, China, JPN, SK say their crap about blah blah blah.
3. NK responds verbally.
4. NK gets foreign 'aid'.

The recent sabre rattling could be part of this general pattern too. It's not "open warfare," so that isn't the actual topic here. This is about language--communicated through open diplomatic cables, classified cables, and militaristic posturing. There's simply no open warfare here.


"But the overall stance towards NK has been one where the US has been trying to make peace with them with "ambassadors" and representatives."

That's false. Think of the historical context. Everything changed when Bush threw out decades of diplomacy by labeling NK as part of the 'Axis of Evil'. Decades of diplomacy were obliterated by an extremely stupid speech. Since this fundamental shift in US foreign policy to NK, NK has been more aggressive (which is not at all surprising, thanks to US aggression/intervention). Diplomatic actions to peace (lol) since then don't mean crap--given that the US can be fickle. The US has simply proven that it isn't trustworthy.

See: Patrick James and Ozgur and Ozdamar - "The United States and North Korea - Avoiding a Worst-Case Scenario"

Considering the fact that this was in reply to the US flying bombers nearby, you have to wonder if the US was looking for a response.

The West got Libya to end its nuclear weapons program and, once that was dismantled, started bombing the country. Unless the DPRK has been living in a closet, they could not logically be expected to dismantle their own nuclear weapons program in light of that fact. Everything else that's happened has been action/reaction to this.

On a slightly related note, I saw Olympus Has Fallen. Deserves the MTV Movie Award for Best Comedy. No plot, okay that's fine. But even the action scenes were cliched. The beginning part with the AC-130 and the attack on the White House was good but, after that, it was just Gerard Butler (who is basically an ugly version of Jeremy Renner) running around grunting and stabbing people.

It was like "how many stock action movie elements can we cram into 2 hours?"

- a highly competent no-nonsense, elderly black president
- a highly competent rebel cop/secret service agent who is ex-special forces and doesn't play by the rules
- a second president (white guy) who is highly competent ... and is also ex-special forces
- a special forces commander who is utterly incompetent and insists on charging in even after everyone tells him not to, causing disaster to ensue
- a crashing helicopter whose blades almost hit the hero until he gets blown back/jumps somewhere
etc.

Meh- try the remake of Red Dawn.

Things are AOK. The people of NK got to watch the Harlem Globe Trotters. Dennis Rodman say's all Obama has to do is call because he is chums with Dear leader. It doesn't get more simple then that.

Iron Butterfly wrote:Things are AOK. The people of NK got to watch the Harlem Globe Trotters. Dennis Rodman say's all Obama has to do is call because he is chums with Dear leader. It doesn't get more simple then that.

Dennis Rodman and the restaurant in new New Jersey. That's not sane diplomacy.

Symmetry wrote:Meh- try the remake of Red Dawn.

Sorry. The next invasion/overthrow movie I see will either have a President who is a Blind Transsexual Albino Native American, or I'm not watching.

We are half way through the axis of evil. Cuba, Iran and North Korea remain.

If a gangster said, I'm going to kill these six fuckers, and then started killing them, what would you do? Ask him not to, or get a gun?

_sabotage_ wrote:We are half way through the axis of evil. Cuba, Iran and North Korea remain.

If a gangster said, I'm going to kill these six fuckers, and then started killing them, what would you do? Ask him not to, or get a gun?

Define Evil.
Does this definition include a measurable amount of Manifest Destiny?
If so, explain.
If not, explain.

Show your work.

This response will count for 65% of your final credibility score.


JRock

Evil: whatever Bush and Condi say it is.

If they say so.
They wouldn't lie.
Because they wouldn't fucking lie goddamn it!

9/11. Bin Laden. Power Balance. Nukes. Just give the military-industrial-media complex your dollars or else.

I'm not saying that a terrorist with a turban will blow you up with a nuke, they said it, our spies have heard it, we just can't tell you who the spies are and who they heard it from, but they did and they do and they will, unless dollars come to us. 9/11. Freedom fries. God bless the blessed.

From an NPR Article wrote:In this one, as The Atlantic's Alan Taylor pointed out, several hovercraft seem to have been copied, pasted and poorly smudged into a scene illustrating North Korean military drills.




This image to the right, released by the North Korean Central News Agency (KCNA), was taken within seconds of the one to its left (released by Kyodo News). An analysis shows that the right-hand image was digitally altered, removing the cluster of men from the left edge and enhancing the perfect line of mourners.

Fun!


--Andy

uhhuhuh

BigBallinStalin wrote:

muy_thaiguy wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:US Korea rattle their sabres by holding military drills.
Then there's the anti-NK sanctions too.
Oh, and let's not forget the shift in US foreign policy toward NK during the Bush administration, which starkly differs with previous US foreign policy toward NK (which was essentially, 'we don't care about you').

NK then rattles its sabre to say, 'we're not afraid'.

You have to take into account both sides and their actions in this scenario to get the fuller picture. If not, then it's pretty much alarmist/sensationalism.

The sanctions were also heavily backed by North Korea's lone ally China, and these sanctions are simply luxury items like ipods.

But the overall stance towards NK has been one where the US has been trying to make peace with them with "ambassadors" and representatives. A military drill that is done publicly right across the border is not a sign of eminant warfare. Maybe a message saying "See what we can do? Back off or you may get a taste of it." Meaning, if NK becomes the aggressor my luanching missiles or invading across the divide, then the US and South Korean troops will counter strike.

Let's not forget Japan, who techinically doesn't even have a standing army (they cannot legally call it that, due to the treaty they signed after WWII). They are also being talked about as a target by North Korea. Granted, the Far East countries have a deep seated hatred of eachother in general, this is open warfare we're talking about.

You can think all that, but it's not how NK perceives the situation. Mobilizing a military of roughly 10k-30k for military drills can be alarming, and the usual response by those who are definitely the target of intimidation (NK) is "we're not scared," thus the ongoing sabre-rattling response by NK.

The general pattern of NK missile tests is as follows:

1. NK launches a missile.
2. US, China, JPN, SK say their crap about blah blah blah.
3. NK responds verbally.
4. NK gets foreign 'aid'.

The recent sabre rattling could be part of this general pattern too. It's not "open warfare," so that isn't the actual topic here. This is about language--communicated through open diplomatic cables, classified cables, and militaristic posturing. There's simply no open warfare here.


"But the overall stance towards NK has been one where the US has been trying to make peace with them with "ambassadors" and representatives."

That's false. Think of the historical context. Everything changed when Bush threw out decades of diplomacy by labeling NK as part of the 'Axis of Evil'. Decades of diplomacy were obliterated by an extremely stupid speech. Since this fundamental shift in US foreign policy to NK, NK has been more aggressive (which is not at all surprising, thanks to US aggression/intervention). Diplomatic actions to peace (lol) since then don't mean crap--given that the US can be fickle. The US has simply proven that it isn't trustworthy.

See: Patrick James and Ozgur and Ozdamar - "The United States and North Korea - Avoiding a Worst-Case Scenario"

Point of order. In your "pattern of events",item 2 lists Saskatchewan with some influential countries. Please note that Saskatchewan is a province of Canada, and Harper, and only Harper (all others will be silenced by imprisonment and/or death) speaks for Canada, not Saskatchewan.

There is no Saskatchewan.

BigBallinStalin wrote:There is no Saskatchewan.

Typical response of an educated US citizen.

In my opinion, the North Koreans are not planning to start an all out war because they are not ready for this kind of combat, and even if they did, they would only attack south korea via the underground tunnels and assuming the SK army and the Americans there don't butcher them first. Secondly, the nuclean missiles the NK are still in the early stages meaning they can reach less than a 1000 miles. 1000 miles doesn't get u very far, SK, Japan, Russia and China (but why would they do that, they're not that stupid), and several military bases on islands far from the American mainland.
Thirdly, Red dawn is an unrealistic movie because the nk are in no shape to attack a country with an army like 20 times its size and more technologically advanced.
there u go and sleep happy tonight hoping that the nukes aren't advanced enough to hit you and your family:)

Sleep happy? I just saw a map, saskatchewan is real, and they are among us!

Thanks Ben, I know I'll sleep better.

ben1212 wrote:Thirdly, Red dawn is an unrealistic movie

Ya think?

Symmetry, your sarcasm is off the charts

ben1212 wrote:Symmetry, your sarcasm is off the charts

Not at all- that was 101.

Apparently North Korea's twitter account was hacked and all 13,000 followers saw a new photo of their "glorious" leader.