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Education in the USA

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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Lootifer on Mon May 20, 2013 4:43 pm

Also point to note. Yassir Arafat recieved the Nobel Peace Prize for his work in coming to a compromise between Israel and Palenstine. Sure he was an activist in his early years, but still more than worthy of being a celebrated member of history (hardly what I would call liberal indoctrination).
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby PLAYER57832 on Mon May 20, 2013 6:44 pm

tzor wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
tzor wrote:American values are (or should be) derived from the adoption of the values of the Age of Enlightenment in the late 18th century. It is based on inalienable rights and the limited role of government to assure these rights to all (the fact that this in theory never happened in practice is besides the point; nothing in theory happens in practice and any system that thinks otherwise is doomed to failure).


American values are whatever values Americans in general believe they should be. HOPEFULLY, American values are malleable over time as we educate ourselves on how to treat others, else we would be valuing slavery, inequality and the eradication of Indians.


American "values" are determined by majority vote? So if we get a massive migration of Russians into the US, then American Values become Russian Values then? (Honestly, I have no idea what "Russian Values" are, other than perhaps that they are often accompanied with a good glass of vodka.)


Actually, yes, Tzor, this is pretty much what happens. It is one reason people worry about too much immigration, because no society can easily absorb large masses of an entirely different culture without itself changing significantly. (note, how much is "too much" is the point of contention, not that "too much" at, some point, is overwhelming). Its is also a big part of why our culture has changed so much in various times.

tzor wrote:

Moreover it ignores the point that few people live up to their values.
What people say they believe and what they live by can very much differ, but the thing about values is that they are more about what people do than what they purport to say. (or can be viewed in both ways, with each mattering to some extent).
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Woodruff on Mon May 20, 2013 6:46 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:That's just it, Phatscotty. The math teacher isn't teaching conservative OR liberal values. The history teacher isn't teaching conservative OR liberal values.


Those are flat out lies. My Logic professor pushed Atheism and Liberalism every single class. My American History professor had an extreme Leftist view of history and had a giant Yassir Arafat picture on the wall. The worst I have personally seen came from my English Professor and my political science professor. It was the same guy, and it didn't matter what class he took.

You could have blindly chosen 2 different subjects that are far harder to politicize, had you put any thought into that whatsoever.


Did they succeed in their attempts to indoctrinate you into their thinking?

I think many teachers and professors lean left (in my anecdotal experience... of which there is actually a lot).

So there are really two questions here:

- Is the federal government (or some other institution) directing the indoctrination of students into a certain viewpoint? There does not appear to be any proof of that in this thread or anywhere else, so I think we can safely answer no.

- If the answer to the first question is yes, has the indoctrination been successful or effective? I think we can also answer no to that question. You and I have both had left-leaning teachers and professors and we remain staunchly anti-left.

Moderators, since those were rhetorical questions that have effectively ended debate in this thread, this thread can now be locked. Thanks!


I'm convinced that awesome posts get ignored around here.


Apparently, given his lack of a response, you were either trolling or derailing the thread and so he decided to try to get it back on topic.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Phatscotty on Mon May 20, 2013 7:05 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:That's just it, Phatscotty. The math teacher isn't teaching conservative OR liberal values. The history teacher isn't teaching conservative OR liberal values.


Those are flat out lies. My Logic professor pushed Atheism and Liberalism every single class. My American History professor had an extreme Leftist view of history and had a giant Yassir Arafat picture on the wall. The worst I have personally seen came from my English Professor and my political science professor. It was the same guy, and it didn't matter what class he took.

You could have blindly chosen 2 different subjects that are far harder to politicize, had you put any thought into that whatsoever.


Did they succeed in their attempts to indoctrinate you into their thinking?

I think many teachers and professors lean left (in my anecdotal experience... of which there is actually a lot).

So there are really two questions here:

- Is the federal government (or some other institution) directing the indoctrination of students into a certain viewpoint? There does not appear to be any proof of that in this thread or anywhere else, so I think we can safely answer no.

- If the answer to the first question is yes, has the indoctrination been successful or effective? I think we can also answer no to that question. You and I have both had left-leaning teachers and professors and we remain staunchly anti-left.

Moderators, since those were rhetorical questions that have effectively ended debate in this thread, this thread can now be locked. Thanks!


I'm convinced that awesome posts get ignored around here.


And maybe it was just covered by 2 pages of Woodruff trying to make the case I don't know what a comparison is??? Get real.

Well, if nobody proved in this thread that there isn't organized indoctrination from the Federal level, then it must be true?

The answer to the first question is yes. The answer to the second question is yes. For you to say that because you and I are not on the left means they aren't brainwashing is far weaker than my original statement that started this whole thing, and that is there are much more than 2 professors actively brainwashing students to vote Democrat and have Leftist value. Whether or not they succeed in the indoctrination, even on only 2 people, doesn't mean they aren't doing it. To put it another way, they don't have to have a 100% success rate in order for brainwashing to be the collective goal.
Last edited by Phatscotty on Mon May 20, 2013 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Phatscotty on Mon May 20, 2013 7:23 pm

Lootifer wrote:Also point to note. Yassir Arafat recieved the Nobel Peace Prize for his work in coming to a compromise between Israel and Palenstine. Sure he was an activist in his early years, but still more than worthy of being a celebrated member of history (hardly what I would call liberal indoctrination).


Really? you playing the Nobel prize card?

The Nobel is nothing more than a recognition of Leftism and anti-Zionism when it comes to leaders. It's a tool used to advance Leftism.

"XYZ won the nobel peace prize, therefore, they are peaceful" That is a perfect example of the thinking that is promoted in our universities, and leads directly to brainwashing. They gave Obama one as he was droning innocent children, and they nominated Stalin for a Nobel too, because he was so peaceful n stuff.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Lootifer on Mon May 20, 2013 7:24 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:Also point to note. Yassir Arafat recieved the Nobel Peace Prize for his work in coming to a compromise between Israel and Palenstine. Sure he was an activist in his early years, but still more than worthy of being a celebrated member of history (hardly what I would call liberal indoctrination).


Really? you playing the Nobel prize card?

The Nobel is nothing more than a recognition of Leftism and anti-Zionism when it comes to leaders. It's a tool used to advance Leftism.

"XYZ won the nobel peace prize, therefore, they are peaceful" That is a perfect example of the thinking that is promoted in our universities, and leads directly to brainwashing. They gave Obama one as he was droning innocent children, and they nominated Stalin for a Nobel too, because he was so peaceful n stuff.

Fine i'll rephrase:

Lootifer wrote:Also point to note. Yassir Arafat was instramental in coming to a compromise between Israel and Palenstine in the early 90's. Sure he was an activist in his early years, but still more than worthy of being a celebrated member of history (hardly what I would call liberal indoctrination).
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby thegreekdog on Mon May 20, 2013 9:19 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:That's just it, Phatscotty. The math teacher isn't teaching conservative OR liberal values. The history teacher isn't teaching conservative OR liberal values.


Those are flat out lies. My Logic professor pushed Atheism and Liberalism every single class. My American History professor had an extreme Leftist view of history and had a giant Yassir Arafat picture on the wall. The worst I have personally seen came from my English Professor and my political science professor. It was the same guy, and it didn't matter what class he took.

You could have blindly chosen 2 different subjects that are far harder to politicize, had you put any thought into that whatsoever.


Did they succeed in their attempts to indoctrinate you into their thinking?

I think many teachers and professors lean left (in my anecdotal experience... of which there is actually a lot).

So there are really two questions here:

- Is the federal government (or some other institution) directing the indoctrination of students into a certain viewpoint? There does not appear to be any proof of that in this thread or anywhere else, so I think we can safely answer no.

- If the answer to the first question is yes, has the indoctrination been successful or effective? I think we can also answer no to that question. You and I have both had left-leaning teachers and professors and we remain staunchly anti-left.

Moderators, since those were rhetorical questions that have effectively ended debate in this thread, this thread can now be locked. Thanks!


I'm convinced that awesome posts get ignored around here.


And maybe it was just covered by 2 pages of Woodruff trying to make the case I don't know what a comparison is??? Get real.

Well, if nobody proved in this thread that there isn't organized indoctrination from the Federal level, then it must be true?

The answer to the first question is yes. The answer to the second question is yes. For you to say that because you and I are not on the left means they aren't brainwashing is far weaker than my original statement that started this whole thing, and that is there are much more than 2 professors actively brainwashing students to vote Democrat and have Leftist value. Whether or not they succeed in the indoctrination, even on only 2 people, doesn't mean they aren't doing it. To put it another way, they don't have to have a 100% success rate in order for brainwashing to be the collective goal.


It is virtually impossible to prove a lack of evidence of something. You have an affirmative obligation to provide evidence that there is an organization providing for a plan of indoctrination or that there is some sort of affirmative action by some group regarding indoctrination. Just because a lot of teachers and professors are liberal does not mean there is a plan.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Phatscotty on Mon May 20, 2013 9:32 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:That's just it, Phatscotty. The math teacher isn't teaching conservative OR liberal values. The history teacher isn't teaching conservative OR liberal values.


Those are flat out lies. My Logic professor pushed Atheism and Liberalism every single class. My American History professor had an extreme Leftist view of history and had a giant Yassir Arafat picture on the wall. The worst I have personally seen came from my English Professor and my political science professor. It was the same guy, and it didn't matter what class he took.

You could have blindly chosen 2 different subjects that are far harder to politicize, had you put any thought into that whatsoever.


Did they succeed in their attempts to indoctrinate you into their thinking?

I think many teachers and professors lean left (in my anecdotal experience... of which there is actually a lot).

So there are really two questions here:

- Is the federal government (or some other institution) directing the indoctrination of students into a certain viewpoint? There does not appear to be any proof of that in this thread or anywhere else, so I think we can safely answer no.

- If the answer to the first question is yes, has the indoctrination been successful or effective? I think we can also answer no to that question. You and I have both had left-leaning teachers and professors and we remain staunchly anti-left.

Moderators, since those were rhetorical questions that have effectively ended debate in this thread, this thread can now be locked. Thanks!


I'm convinced that awesome posts get ignored around here.


And maybe it was just covered by 2 pages of Woodruff trying to make the case I don't know what a comparison is??? Get real.

Well, if nobody proved in this thread that there isn't organized indoctrination from the Federal level, then it must be true?

The answer to the first question is yes. The answer to the second question is yes. For you to say that because you and I are not on the left means they aren't brainwashing is far weaker than my original statement that started this whole thing, and that is there are much more than 2 professors actively brainwashing students to vote Democrat and have Leftist value. Whether or not they succeed in the indoctrination, even on only 2 people, doesn't mean they aren't doing it. To put it another way, they don't have to have a 100% success rate in order for brainwashing to be the collective goal.


It is virtually impossible to prove a lack of evidence of something. You have an affirmative obligation to provide evidence that there is an organization providing for a plan of indoctrination or that there is some sort of affirmative action by some group regarding indoctrination. Just because a lot of teachers and professors are liberal does not mean there is a plan.


and that evidence, here anyways, can only exist in link form, right? We can argue about the topic matter, but my post to you was only because you said no evidence has been shown here, therefore the topic is false.

Are you sure that is the only evidence that is admissible? Because you are really narrowing down the options. Yes this is a very difficult topic to prove. I'm pretty sure that a link with a story saying "haha we are the one who conspired to brainwash America in the universities, and here are our notes on how we did it every step of the way" That just isn't going to happen, and I think you know that. So we have to go about it another way. The best way I think I have been able to display my case is by asking over and over again, different ways and with different examples: "If what I say is true, then you would expect this result concerning area XYZ" Now I have already granted that isn't proof, but if I can string together 20 examples and they all point to organized brainwashing, then you either have to conclude that there is at least a little merit to my case, or else it's just a whole bunch of coincidences.

And I am losing a lot of faith in talking to you. Nowhere have I ever said that because universities are busting at the seams with Liberal faculty means that is proof of the topic. I only said, that if what I said was true, you would expect it to look a certain way. The # of Lefties on universities is only 1 part that you would expect if it were true that indoctrination were systemic, and I have only used that a 1 little piece of pertinent information, nothing more.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Woodruff on Mon May 20, 2013 9:36 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:It is virtually impossible to prove a lack of evidence of something. You have an affirmative obligation to provide evidence that there is an organization providing for a plan of indoctrination or that there is some sort of affirmative action by some group regarding indoctrination. Just because a lot of teachers and professors are liberal does not mean there is a plan.


and that evidence, here anyways, can only exist in link form, right? We can argue about the topic matter, but my post to you was only because you said no evidence has been shown here, therefore the topic is false.
Are you sure that is the only evidence that is admissible? Because you are really narrowing down the options. Yes this is a very difficult topic to prove. I'm pretty sure that a link with a story saying "haha we are the one who conspired to brainwash America in the universities, and here are our notes on how we did it every step of the way" That just isn't going to happen, and I think you know that. So we have to go about it another way. The best way I think I have been able to display my case is by asking over and over again, different ways and with different examples: "If what I say is true, then you would expect this result concerning area XYZ" Now I have already granted that isn't proof, but if I can string together 20 examples and they all point to organized brainwashing, then you either have to conclude that there is at least a little merit to my case, or else it's just a whole bunch of coincidences.


Twenty examples of your personal anecdotes (which are subject to your demonstrated cognitive bias) really don't add up to much.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby thegreekdog on Mon May 20, 2013 9:47 pm

Phatscotty wrote:and that evidence, here anyways, can only exist in link form, right? We can argue about the topic matter, but my post to you was only because you said no evidence has been shown here, therefore the topic is false.

Are you sure that is the only evidence that is admissible? Because you are really narrowing down the options. Yes this is a very difficult topic to prove. I'm pretty sure that a link with a story saying "haha we are the one who conspired to brainwash America in the universities, and here are our notes on how we did it every step of the way" That just isn't going to happen, and I think you know that. So we have to go about it another way. The best way I think I have been able to display my case is by asking over and over again, different ways and with different examples: "If what I say is true, then you would expect this result concerning area XYZ" Now I have already granted that isn't proof, but if I can string together 20 examples and they all point to organized brainwashing, then you either have to conclude that there is at least a little merit to my case, or else it's just a whole bunch of coincidences.

And I am losing a lot of faith in talking to you. Nowhere have I ever said that because universities are busting at the seams with Liberal faculty means that is proof of the topic. I only said, that if what I said was true, you would expect it to look a certain way. The # of Lefties on universities is only 1 part that you would expect if it were true that indoctrination were systemic, and I have only used that a 1 little piece of pertinent information, nothing more.


As I indicated a few pages ago, it is a coincidence, or, more accurately, a political affiliation based on benefits. Teachers tend to be members of unions. Those unions tend to be affiliated with Demcorats. Democrats tend to be liberal. Therefore, teachers tend to be liberal. Like you, I have a lot of anecdotal experiences with liberal teachers (mostly in college and law school). It was especially frustrating in law school. But it never entered my mind that there was a directive to indoctrinate students. It is simply more reasonable and simpler to explain liberal teachers and professors by pointing out the reasons why a teacher would be liberal than by accusing some unknown organization of a systematic plan to indoctrinate students. Nevermind that indoctrination doesn't really work.

Also, let's get this out of the way now since you're wasting time typing it in a few threads recently and I'm wasting time reading it - There is no reason for or merit to your statements regarding your faith in me or anything like that. So you can probably just stop typing those things. I'm indifferent to whether you respect me or have faith inme.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Phatscotty on Mon May 20, 2013 9:51 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:and that evidence, here anyways, can only exist in link form, right? We can argue about the topic matter, but my post to you was only because you said no evidence has been shown here, therefore the topic is false.

Are you sure that is the only evidence that is admissible? Because you are really narrowing down the options. Yes this is a very difficult topic to prove. I'm pretty sure that a link with a story saying "haha we are the one who conspired to brainwash America in the universities, and here are our notes on how we did it every step of the way" That just isn't going to happen, and I think you know that. So we have to go about it another way. The best way I think I have been able to display my case is by asking over and over again, different ways and with different examples: "If what I say is true, then you would expect this result concerning area XYZ" Now I have already granted that isn't proof, but if I can string together 20 examples and they all point to organized brainwashing, then you either have to conclude that there is at least a little merit to my case, or else it's just a whole bunch of coincidences.

And I am losing a lot of faith in talking to you. Nowhere have I ever said that because universities are busting at the seams with Liberal faculty means that is proof of the topic. I only said, that if what I said was true, you would expect it to look a certain way. The # of Lefties on universities is only 1 part that you would expect if it were true that indoctrination were systemic, and I have only used that a 1 little piece of pertinent information, nothing more.


As I indicated a few pages ago, it is a coincidence, or, more accurately, a political affiliation based on benefits. Teachers tend to be members of unions. Those unions tend to be affiliated with Demcorats. Democrats tend to be liberal. Therefore, teachers tend to be liberal. Like you, I have a lot of anecdotal experiences with liberal teachers (mostly in college and law school). It was especially frustrating in law school. But it never entered my mind that there was a directive to indoctrinate students. It is simply more reasonable and simpler to explain liberal teachers and professors by pointing out the reasons why a teacher would be liberal than by accusing some unknown organization of a systematic plan to indoctrinate students. Nevermind that indoctrination doesn't really work.

Also, let's get this out of the way now since you're wasting time typing it in a few threads recently and I'm wasting time reading it - There is no reason for or merit to your statements regarding your faith in me or anything like that. So you can probably just stop typing those things. I'm indifferent to whether you respect me or have faith inme.


But you are being dishonest and have an agenda
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby thegreekdog on Mon May 20, 2013 9:53 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:and that evidence, here anyways, can only exist in link form, right? We can argue about the topic matter, but my post to you was only because you said no evidence has been shown here, therefore the topic is false.

Are you sure that is the only evidence that is admissible? Because you are really narrowing down the options. Yes this is a very difficult topic to prove. I'm pretty sure that a link with a story saying "haha we are the one who conspired to brainwash America in the universities, and here are our notes on how we did it every step of the way" That just isn't going to happen, and I think you know that. So we have to go about it another way. The best way I think I have been able to display my case is by asking over and over again, different ways and with different examples: "If what I say is true, then you would expect this result concerning area XYZ" Now I have already granted that isn't proof, but if I can string together 20 examples and they all point to organized brainwashing, then you either have to conclude that there is at least a little merit to my case, or else it's just a whole bunch of coincidences.

And I am losing a lot of faith in talking to you. Nowhere have I ever said that because universities are busting at the seams with Liberal faculty means that is proof of the topic. I only said, that if what I said was true, you would expect it to look a certain way. The # of Lefties on universities is only 1 part that you would expect if it were true that indoctrination were systemic, and I have only used that a 1 little piece of pertinent information, nothing more.


As I indicated a few pages ago, it is a coincidence, or, more accurately, a political affiliation based on benefits. Teachers tend to be members of unions. Those unions tend to be affiliated with Demcorats. Democrats tend to be liberal. Therefore, teachers tend to be liberal. Like you, I have a lot of anecdotal experiences with liberal teachers (mostly in college and law school). It was especially frustrating in law school. But it never entered my mind that there was a directive to indoctrinate students. It is simply more reasonable and simpler to explain liberal teachers and professors by pointing out the reasons why a teacher would be liberal than by accusing some unknown organization of a systematic plan to indoctrinate students. Nevermind that indoctrination doesn't really work.

Also, let's get this out of the way now since you're wasting time typing it in a few threads recently and I'm wasting time reading it - There is no reason for or merit to your statements regarding your faith in me or anything like that. So you can probably just stop typing those things. I'm indifferent to whether you respect me or have faith inme.


But you are being dishonest and have an agenda


You'll have to explain that to me. I don't lie in these fora and I'm not sure what my agenda is.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Woodruff on Tue May 21, 2013 6:06 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:and that evidence, here anyways, can only exist in link form, right? We can argue about the topic matter, but my post to you was only because you said no evidence has been shown here, therefore the topic is false.

Are you sure that is the only evidence that is admissible? Because you are really narrowing down the options. Yes this is a very difficult topic to prove. I'm pretty sure that a link with a story saying "haha we are the one who conspired to brainwash America in the universities, and here are our notes on how we did it every step of the way" That just isn't going to happen, and I think you know that. So we have to go about it another way. The best way I think I have been able to display my case is by asking over and over again, different ways and with different examples: "If what I say is true, then you would expect this result concerning area XYZ" Now I have already granted that isn't proof, but if I can string together 20 examples and they all point to organized brainwashing, then you either have to conclude that there is at least a little merit to my case, or else it's just a whole bunch of coincidences.

And I am losing a lot of faith in talking to you. Nowhere have I ever said that because universities are busting at the seams with Liberal faculty means that is proof of the topic. I only said, that if what I said was true, you would expect it to look a certain way. The # of Lefties on universities is only 1 part that you would expect if it were true that indoctrination were systemic, and I have only used that a 1 little piece of pertinent information, nothing more.


As I indicated a few pages ago, it is a coincidence, or, more accurately, a political affiliation based on benefits. Teachers tend to be members of unions. Those unions tend to be affiliated with Demcorats. Democrats tend to be liberal. Therefore, teachers tend to be liberal. Like you, I have a lot of anecdotal experiences with liberal teachers (mostly in college and law school). It was especially frustrating in law school. But it never entered my mind that there was a directive to indoctrinate students. It is simply more reasonable and simpler to explain liberal teachers and professors by pointing out the reasons why a teacher would be liberal than by accusing some unknown organization of a systematic plan to indoctrinate students. Nevermind that indoctrination doesn't really work.

Also, let's get this out of the way now since you're wasting time typing it in a few threads recently and I'm wasting time reading it - There is no reason for or merit to your statements regarding your faith in me or anything like that. So you can probably just stop typing those things. I'm indifferent to whether you respect me or have faith inme.


But you are being dishonest and have an agenda


It seems that you believe everyone who calls you out with any consistency has an agenda.

I've heard the statement made that if you think everyone is crazy, perhaps it is you who is, in fact, the crazy one.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Phatscotty on Tue May 21, 2013 6:09 pm

the first 11 minutes of part 1 are of current events at the time, so jump to 11 minutes to start with the topic matter. This was around the time it was discovered some teachers and council members in Arizona got caught "teaching" children to hate white people and abolish Thanksgiving


Last edited by Phatscotty on Tue May 21, 2013 6:27 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Woodruff on Tue May 21, 2013 6:14 pm

Phatscotty wrote:



Do you actually not have opinions of your own? Do you have some physical or psychological situation that keeps you from being able to express yourself with the written word? Do you have some sort of video version of Tourette's Syndrome?
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Phatscotty on Tue May 21, 2013 6:32 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:and that evidence, here anyways, can only exist in link form, right? We can argue about the topic matter, but my post to you was only because you said no evidence has been shown here, therefore the topic is false.

Are you sure that is the only evidence that is admissible? Because you are really narrowing down the options. Yes this is a very difficult topic to prove. I'm pretty sure that a link with a story saying "haha we are the one who conspired to brainwash America in the universities, and here are our notes on how we did it every step of the way" That just isn't going to happen, and I think you know that. So we have to go about it another way. The best way I think I have been able to display my case is by asking over and over again, different ways and with different examples: "If what I say is true, then you would expect this result concerning area XYZ" Now I have already granted that isn't proof, but if I can string together 20 examples and they all point to organized brainwashing, then you either have to conclude that there is at least a little merit to my case, or else it's just a whole bunch of coincidences.

And I am losing a lot of faith in talking to you. Nowhere have I ever said that because universities are busting at the seams with Liberal faculty means that is proof of the topic. I only said, that if what I said was true, you would expect it to look a certain way. The # of Lefties on universities is only 1 part that you would expect if it were true that indoctrination were systemic, and I have only used that a 1 little piece of pertinent information, nothing more.


As I indicated a few pages ago, it is a coincidence, or, more accurately, a political affiliation based on benefits. Teachers tend to be members of unions. Those unions tend to be affiliated with Demcorats. Democrats tend to be liberal. Therefore, teachers tend to be liberal. Like you, I have a lot of anecdotal experiences with liberal teachers (mostly in college and law school). It was especially frustrating in law school. But it never entered my mind that there was a directive to indoctrinate students. It is simply more reasonable and simpler to explain liberal teachers and professors by pointing out the reasons why a teacher would be liberal than by accusing some unknown organization of a systematic plan to indoctrinate students. Nevermind that indoctrination doesn't really work.

Also, let's get this out of the way now since you're wasting time typing it in a few threads recently and I'm wasting time reading it - There is no reason for or merit to your statements regarding your faith in me or anything like that. So you can probably just stop typing those things. I'm indifferent to whether you respect me or have faith inme.


But you are being dishonest and have an agenda


You'll have to explain that to me. I don't lie in these fora and I'm not sure what my agenda is.


You'll want to do this privately
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Woodruff on Tue May 21, 2013 7:19 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:and that evidence, here anyways, can only exist in link form, right? We can argue about the topic matter, but my post to you was only because you said no evidence has been shown here, therefore the topic is false.

Are you sure that is the only evidence that is admissible? Because you are really narrowing down the options. Yes this is a very difficult topic to prove. I'm pretty sure that a link with a story saying "haha we are the one who conspired to brainwash America in the universities, and here are our notes on how we did it every step of the way" That just isn't going to happen, and I think you know that. So we have to go about it another way. The best way I think I have been able to display my case is by asking over and over again, different ways and with different examples: "If what I say is true, then you would expect this result concerning area XYZ" Now I have already granted that isn't proof, but if I can string together 20 examples and they all point to organized brainwashing, then you either have to conclude that there is at least a little merit to my case, or else it's just a whole bunch of coincidences.

And I am losing a lot of faith in talking to you. Nowhere have I ever said that because universities are busting at the seams with Liberal faculty means that is proof of the topic. I only said, that if what I said was true, you would expect it to look a certain way. The # of Lefties on universities is only 1 part that you would expect if it were true that indoctrination were systemic, and I have only used that a 1 little piece of pertinent information, nothing more.


As I indicated a few pages ago, it is a coincidence, or, more accurately, a political affiliation based on benefits. Teachers tend to be members of unions. Those unions tend to be affiliated with Demcorats. Democrats tend to be liberal. Therefore, teachers tend to be liberal. Like you, I have a lot of anecdotal experiences with liberal teachers (mostly in college and law school). It was especially frustrating in law school. But it never entered my mind that there was a directive to indoctrinate students. It is simply more reasonable and simpler to explain liberal teachers and professors by pointing out the reasons why a teacher would be liberal than by accusing some unknown organization of a systematic plan to indoctrinate students. Nevermind that indoctrination doesn't really work.

Also, let's get this out of the way now since you're wasting time typing it in a few threads recently and I'm wasting time reading it - There is no reason for or merit to your statements regarding your faith in me or anything like that. So you can probably just stop typing those things. I'm indifferent to whether you respect me or have faith inme.


But you are being dishonest and have an agenda


You'll have to explain that to me. I don't lie in these fora and I'm not sure what my agenda is.


You'll want to do this privately


You mean YOU'LL want to do this privately, I'm sure. Unless you're intimating that what you believe thegreekdog's agenda is to be SO EMBARRASSING or SO DAMAGING TO HIS REPUTATION that he simply couldn't bear to have it revealed?

In which case I am personally FASCINATED at the idea. Perhaps he's an Obama apologist too?
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue May 21, 2013 9:17 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Those are flat out lies. My Logic professor pushed Atheism and Liberalism every single class. My American History professor had an extreme Leftist view of history and had a giant Yassir Arafat picture on the wall. The worst I have personally seen came from my English Professor and my political science professor. It was the same guy, and it didn't matter what class he took.

You could have blindly chosen 2 different subjects that are far harder to politicize, had you put any thought into that whatsoever.


Did they succeed in their attempts to indoctrinate you into their thinking?

I think many teachers and professors lean left (in my anecdotal experience... of which there is actually a lot).

So there are really two questions here:

- Is the federal government (or some other institution) directing the indoctrination of students into a certain viewpoint? There does not appear to be any proof of that in this thread or anywhere else, so I think we can safely answer no.

- If the answer to the first question is yes, has the indoctrination been successful or effective? I think we can also answer no to that question. You and I have both had left-leaning teachers and professors and we remain staunchly anti-left.

Moderators, since those were rhetorical questions that have effectively ended debate in this thread, this thread can now be locked. Thanks!


I'm convinced that awesome posts get ignored around here.


And maybe it was just covered by 2 pages of Woodruff trying to make the case I don't know what a comparison is??? Get real.

Well, if nobody proved in this thread that there isn't organized indoctrination from the Federal level, then it must be true?

The answer to the first question is yes. The answer to the second question is yes. For you to say that because you and I are not on the left means they aren't brainwashing is far weaker than my original statement that started this whole thing, and that is there are much more than 2 professors actively brainwashing students to vote Democrat and have Leftist value. Whether or not they succeed in the indoctrination, even on only 2 people, doesn't mean they aren't doing it. To put it another way, they don't have to have a 100% success rate in order for brainwashing to be the collective goal.


It is virtually impossible to prove a lack of evidence of something. You have an affirmative obligation to provide evidence that there is an organization providing for a plan of indoctrination or that there is some sort of affirmative action by some group regarding indoctrination. Just because a lot of teachers and professors are liberal does not mean there is a plan.


I take it that you're not a man of science, amirite?

and that evidence, here anyways, can only exist in link form, right? We can argue about the topic matter, but my post to you was only because you said no evidence has been shown here, therefore the topic is false.

Are you sure that is the only evidence that is admissible? Because you are really narrowing down the options. Yes this is a very difficult topic to prove. I'm pretty sure that a link with a story saying "haha we are the one who conspired to brainwash America in the universities, and here are our notes on how we did it every step of the way" That just isn't going to happen, and I think you know that. So we have to go about it another way. The best way I think I have been able to display my case is by asking over and over again, different ways and with different examples: "If what I say is true, then you would expect this result concerning area XYZ" Now I have already granted that isn't proof, but if I can string together 20 examples and they all point to organized brainwashing, then you either have to conclude that there is at least a little merit to my case, or else it's just a whole bunch of coincidences.

And I am losing a lot of faith in talking to you. Nowhere have I ever said that because universities are busting at the seams with Liberal faculty means that is proof of the topic. I only said, that if what I said was true, you would expect it to look a certain way. The # of Lefties on universities is only 1 part that you would expect if it were true that indoctrination were systemic, and I have only used that a 1 little piece of pertinent information, nothing more.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby tzor on Tue May 21, 2013 10:07 pm

Woodruff wrote:I'd prefer to ask historians.


That doesn't seem very relevant, to be honest. Are you still chasing after Communists and Nazis?[/quote]

Chasing after our enemies was never a "value." The enemy of the day isn't a "value" either.

That's why I prefer historians, at least they have a clue what a "value" is.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Woodruff on Wed May 22, 2013 1:33 am

tzor wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
tzor wrote:I'd prefer to ask historians.


That doesn't seem very relevant, to be honest. Are you still chasing after Communists and Nazis?


Chasing after our enemies was never a "value."


I'm not speaking of values with that statement, I am rather speaking of methods.

tzor wrote:That's why I prefer historians, at least they have a clue what a "value" is.


Why would a historian have any more of a clue what a "value" is than any other person? You seemed to lack complete faith in the ability of Americans to express their own values, which of course would include all of the educated Americans in that group. Why are historians immune to that phenomenon?
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby thegreekdog on Wed May 22, 2013 2:07 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:and that evidence, here anyways, can only exist in link form, right? We can argue about the topic matter, but my post to you was only because you said no evidence has been shown here, therefore the topic is false.

Are you sure that is the only evidence that is admissible? Because you are really narrowing down the options. Yes this is a very difficult topic to prove. I'm pretty sure that a link with a story saying "haha we are the one who conspired to brainwash America in the universities, and here are our notes on how we did it every step of the way" That just isn't going to happen, and I think you know that. So we have to go about it another way. The best way I think I have been able to display my case is by asking over and over again, different ways and with different examples: "If what I say is true, then you would expect this result concerning area XYZ" Now I have already granted that isn't proof, but if I can string together 20 examples and they all point to organized brainwashing, then you either have to conclude that there is at least a little merit to my case, or else it's just a whole bunch of coincidences.

And I am losing a lot of faith in talking to you. Nowhere have I ever said that because universities are busting at the seams with Liberal faculty means that is proof of the topic. I only said, that if what I said was true, you would expect it to look a certain way. The # of Lefties on universities is only 1 part that you would expect if it were true that indoctrination were systemic, and I have only used that a 1 little piece of pertinent information, nothing more.


As I indicated a few pages ago, it is a coincidence, or, more accurately, a political affiliation based on benefits. Teachers tend to be members of unions. Those unions tend to be affiliated with Demcorats. Democrats tend to be liberal. Therefore, teachers tend to be liberal. Like you, I have a lot of anecdotal experiences with liberal teachers (mostly in college and law school). It was especially frustrating in law school. But it never entered my mind that there was a directive to indoctrinate students. It is simply more reasonable and simpler to explain liberal teachers and professors by pointing out the reasons why a teacher would be liberal than by accusing some unknown organization of a systematic plan to indoctrinate students. Nevermind that indoctrination doesn't really work.

Also, let's get this out of the way now since you're wasting time typing it in a few threads recently and I'm wasting time reading it - There is no reason for or merit to your statements regarding your faith in me or anything like that. So you can probably just stop typing those things. I'm indifferent to whether you respect me or have faith inme.


But you are being dishonest and have an agenda


You'll have to explain that to me. I don't lie in these fora and I'm not sure what my agenda is.


You'll want to do this privately


Intriguing. Do go on (no need to do it privately).
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Phatscotty on Thu May 23, 2013 7:25 pm

College Conspiracy is the most comprehensive documentary ever produced about higher education in the U.S. The film exposes the facts and truth about America's college education system. 'College Conspiracy' was produced over a six-month period by NIA's team of expert Austrian economists with the help of thousands of NIA members who contributed their ideas and personal stories for the film. NIA believes the U.S. college education system is a scam that turns vulnerable young Americans into debt slaves for life.


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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Lootifer on Thu May 23, 2013 7:44 pm

Sorry I can watch youtubes at work. But thanks for the link anyway. Just checking out http://inflation.us/collegeconspiracyreleased.html instead, gives a nice little dialog that covers the doco.

It's a nice rhetoric and one that I, on a fundamental level, agree with: Too many people are getting college/university degrees when they do not require them and the market has essentially over-valued them by a significant margin.

However this has no relevance on the topic of this thread, was there a [topic relevant] point to your post?
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby waauw on Thu May 23, 2013 8:14 pm

Lootifer wrote:Sorry I can watch youtubes at work. But thanks for the link anyway. Just checking out http://inflation.us/collegeconspiracyreleased.html instead, gives a nice little dialog that covers the doco.

It's a nice rhetoric and one that I, on a fundamental level, agree with: Too many people are getting college/university degrees when they do not require them and the market has essentially over-valued them by a significant margin.

However this has no relevance on the topic of this thread, was there a [topic relevant] point to your post?


Actually if you look at educational systems in other countries, degrees are absolutely necessary. The only problem in the US is that the quality and the costs are getting worse and worse.

I know someone who came back as an exchange student from the US. He said the US College education was of abysmal quality. If you look up statements from famous university teachers like Nial Ferguson or Michio Kaku. You'll find out they are saying the exact same thing. The US educational system is dropping in quality. Harvard, MIT and all those other famous institutes are the exceptions.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby saxitoxin on Thu May 23, 2013 8:27 pm

waauw wrote:I know someone who came back as an exchange student from the US. He said the US College education was of abysmal quality.


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