He's called a "traitor"

[Phatscotty]

[Phatscotty]

Definitely at least check out the last 2 minutes, starting just before the 10 minute mark.

[patches70]

Haha, the government is collecting data on everyone, bank transactions, passwords, email and everything else they can get a hold of. Information no one here would willingly share with anyone but it's ok for the government to get it?

Who here would like to go ahead and give me all their information? Bank accounts, transactions, passwords, emails, PM's and every key stroke you type every day? Recordings of every phone call? I'd bet no one would. But it's ok for the government to?

Does anyone think the government is made up of a bunch of altruistic robots? Of course not. It's made up of people. Many just like me. Some people can be trusted, some can't. So who's got access to all your information? Not a single person you know or have any idea about.

But it's ok, because they work for the government.

A quote from Snowden-

"Any analyst at any time can target anyone. Any selector, anywhere... I, sitting at my desk, certainly had the authorities to wiretap anyone, from you or your accountant, to a federal judge, to even the President..."

For those of you who think Snowden is a traitor, take comfort in the fact that he had access to every bit of information collected on you.

Hahahah!

[patches70]

Oh, and BTW, the NSA doesn't just collect the data on only American citizens, it collects the data from virtually everyone in the world who uses computers or phones or anything that leaves the wire. Yes, even you in Germany, Italy, Canada, England, Russia and all the other obvious suspects like North Korea, Iran, Syria, Iraq and such.

Brilliant! But don't worry, every single government employee is honest, trust worthy, fair and impartial. Just ask the folks over there at the IRS if you don't believe me!

[saxitoxin]

Treason, as Scott may shortly observe, has a pretty strict definition in the U.S. constitution ...

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Regardless what Snowden has confessed to the press (not to a court in open session), I'd be curious if there are, in fact, two witnesses? When Robert Hanssen was convicted of Treason, there were several FBI agents in a van across the street who watched him tape a bag of documents under a park bench for his Russian contact.

Also, it appears Shia LaBeouf is dissenting to loyalty to the regime as well and has divulged operations of the secret police to the media (NBC). Will he be placed on Obama's kill list as a political dissident? (If so, what will that mean for Scott and his Batman/Robin fantasy?)

[DoomYoshi]

Nice. Nobody called me a traitor for leaking inside information on the next great animated show.

[muy_thaiguy]

Nice. Nobody called me a traitor for leaking inside information on the next great animated show.

"My Little Pony: Donkeys Exist" is not the "next great animated show."

[Night Strike]

Haha, the government is collecting data on everyone, bank transactions, passwords, email and everything else they can get a hold of. Information no one here would willingly share with anyone but it's ok for the government to get it?

Who here would like to go ahead and give me all their information? Bank accounts, transactions, passwords, emails, PM's and every key stroke you type every day? Recordings of every phone call? I'd bet no one would. But it's ok for the government to?

And those same Democrats who are defending it now were complaining that Bush was going to find out what books you checked out at the library. This is infinitely MORE intrusive.

[AndyDufresne]

And those same Democrats who are defending it now were complaining that Bush was going to find out what books you checked out at the library. This is infinitely MORE intrusive.

This administration has seemed to codify more in law what Bush's admin was doing in a more legal gray area. The end product though is the same, stinks for us.


--Andy

[thegreekdog]

Haha, the government is collecting data on everyone, bank transactions, passwords, email and everything else they can get a hold of. Information no one here would willingly share with anyone but it's ok for the government to get it?

Who here would like to go ahead and give me all their information? Bank accounts, transactions, passwords, emails, PM's and every key stroke you type every day? Recordings of every phone call? I'd bet no one would. But it's ok for the government to?

And those same Democrats who are defending it now were complaining that Bush was going to find out what books you checked out at the library. This is infinitely MORE intrusive.

And those same Republicans who are defending (or attacking it... other than like two guys) it now defended it under Bush.

[AndyDufresne]

And those same Republicans who are defending (or attacking it... other than like two guys) it now defended it under Bush.

I see what you did there, TGD. This smells of Repocrats.


--Andy

[saxitoxin]

As President Barack Obama prepares to visit Germany next week, German officials are turning up the heat on the U.S. over its Internet surveillance, according to reports, with one official calling the program “Stasi methods.”

One official, Markus Ferber, a German who sits in the European Parliament, said the U.S. government was using “American-style Stasi methods,” Reuters reported. “I thought this era had ended when the DDR fell,” he said, according to the report.

German Justice Minister Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger* called reports of the surveillance “deeply disconcerting” in an op-ed in the German news magazine Der Spiegel, saying the U.S. should explain given the importance of the global Internet.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/o ... 92628.html

and it was just a few years ago these people dutifully lined up to give tributes and obeisances during the imperial visit



* if you've never had a Schnarrenberger, they're absolutely delicious

[Woodruff]

Haha, the government is collecting data on everyone, bank transactions, passwords, email and everything else they can get a hold of. Information no one here would willingly share with anyone but it's ok for the government to get it?

Who here would like to go ahead and give me all their information? Bank accounts, transactions, passwords, emails, PM's and every key stroke you type every day? Recordings of every phone call? I'd bet no one would. But it's ok for the government to?

And those same Democrats who are defending it now were complaining that Bush was going to find out what books you checked out at the library. This is infinitely MORE intrusive.

I've asked this before...what Democrats are defending it (other than the politicians)? Not a single Democrat I know is defending this. I haven't even heard PLAYER defend it (though I don't think I've seen her comment on it either).

[saxitoxin]

I've asked this before...what Democrats are defending it (other than the politicians)?

Metsfanmax in this thread

[Woodruff]

I've asked this before...what Democrats are defending it (other than the politicians)?

Metsfanmax in this thread

It seems to me that he's defending treating Snowden as a traitor, not that he's defending the process of the NSA spying on American citizens as a matter of course.

[saxitoxin]

I've asked this before...what Democrats are defending it (other than the politicians)?

Metsfanmax in this thread

It seems to me that he's defending treating Snowden as a traitor, not that he's defending the process of the NSA spying on American citizens as a matter of course.

six of one, half-a-dozen of another

[Woodruff]

I've asked this before...what Democrats are defending it (other than the politicians)?

Metsfanmax in this thread

It seems to me that he's defending treating Snowden as a traitor, not that he's defending the process of the NSA spying on American citizens as a matter of course.

six of one, half-a-dozen of another

No, I definitely disagree. They are two different issues.

[AslanTheKing]

things never look as they seem,
but what is his motive
moral?
screw moral,
people have 2013 no more morals

( leaving a girlfriend behind, his whole family? is that worth it? u judge)

with his gifted talent, he can make more than 20.000 per month in the internetworld,
has he been working for the chinese or russians already long before?

if u have no problems giving your data to google, hotmail, facebook
then enjoy it - its for free
( not really)

a man who knows to much - will be running away his whole life
big brother is watching you - are u surprised?

[Metsfanmax]

I've asked this before...what Democrats are defending it (other than the politicians)?

Metsfanmax in this thread

It seems to me that he's defending treating Snowden as a traitor, not that he's defending the process of the NSA spying on American citizens as a matter of course.

I did neither. What I did say is that it's right to treat Snowden as a criminal. Treason, as saxi correctly observed, is a specific claim and I am not convinced that Snowden is guilty of treason.

[Woodruff]

I've asked this before...what Democrats are defending it (other than the politicians)?

Metsfanmax in this thread

It seems to me that he's defending treating Snowden as a traitor, not that he's defending the process of the NSA spying on American citizens as a matter of course.

I did neither. What I did say is that it's right to treat Snowden as a criminal. Treason, as saxi correctly observed, is a specific claim and I am not convinced that Snowden is guilty of treason.

Fair enough...I didn't mean to mischaracterize you. It was just clear to me that you weren't defending the act of routine spying on Americans.

[Phatscotty]

Honestly, I can see this issue from both sides. 2 of the people I listen to and respect the most are on completely different ends of this issue. It all depends on if he did it for the right reasons or the wrong reasons. I do think it sucks that now terrorists know more about how our program works, but like AAfitz said, if terrorists are planning attacks through emails and cell phone calls, then they are idiots. I also can appreciate that this program has helped stopped a couple attacks (so they say) but obviously it did not connect the dots with the Boston bombing, and even if they did piece it together, that doesn't mean they will actually stop an attack, it only increases the odds.

But as for the 2 people I respect most, one of them who taught me some extremely valuable skills for life and even taught me a lot about how to be a man is at odds with me, he keeps saying "name one person who's rights were violated" and I understand that, but in order to have that opinion make trust a prerequisite. And we don't know for sure there isn't someone sitting in a prison cell somewhere who had his privacy invaded without a warrant, ya have to trust the government at what it says, and trust it in the future the power will never be abused, and even then it's still an invasion of privacy.

In a perfect world, this could work, so long as we could trust the government to use government programs the right way and to do the right thing, and to me that includes getting a warrant amongst other things, but it's never been more clear in my lifetimes over the last month that this government has been massively abusing government power against it's own people for political reasons, and constitutes a civil rights violations on all Americans. What I think people who disagree are saying is "but we have a good reason to violate your rights" and maybe they do, but if the terrorist threat causes us to lose our Freedom and privacy, then they have won. I still hold that we can keep the people safe and respect the rights of the American people.

For example, Batman had a good reason to hack into everyone's phone to find the Joker. but he destroyed the machine after the goal was achieved, they saved countless lives, but look at the way Morgan Freeman handles it. That's the opposite of how our government is handling it.

"beautiful, unethical...DANGEROUS"

[Phatscotty]

I've asked this before...what Democrats are defending it (other than the politicians)?

Metsfanmax in this thread

It seems to me that he's defending treating Snowden as a traitor, not that he's defending the process of the NSA spying on American citizens as a matter of course.

I did neither. What I did say is that it's right to treat Snowden as a criminal. Treason, as saxi correctly observed, is a specific claim and I am not convinced that Snowden is guilty of treason.

I don't totally disagree, but I think it's in more of the same way Benjamin Franklin and John Adams were "criminals"...they broke the law and led the people to take arms against their government.

[saxitoxin]

one of them who taught me some extremely valuable skills for life and even taught me a lot about how to be a man

this guy?

[Phatscotty]

one of them who taught me some extremely valuable skills for life and even taught me a lot about how to be a man

this guy?

noooo-ah!

[jonesthecurl]

Haha, the government is collecting data on everyone, bank transactions, passwords, email and everything else they can get a hold of. Information no one here would willingly share with anyone but it's ok for the government to get it?

Who here would like to go ahead and give me all their information? Bank accounts, transactions, passwords, emails, PM's and every key stroke you type every day? Recordings of every phone call? I'd bet no one would. But it's ok for the government to?

And those same Democrats who are defending it now were complaining that Bush was going to find out what books you checked out at the library. This is infinitely MORE intrusive.

It's wrong. To me, it doesn't matter an iota which "party" is doing it. Then again, I am actually left wing. America doesn't have one.