He's called a "traitor"

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He's called a "traitor"

Postby patches70 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:25 am

John Boehner called NSA leaker Edward Snowden a “traitor”. But is that accurate?

In the United States treason is specifically named and described in the Constitution, the only crime thus defined in the Constitution. It reads like this-

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

To be guilty of treason one must be a citizen and be levying war against the US or giving aid to her enemies.

Snowden gave classified information to the press. Is the press our enemy? Are they waging war against the US?

Snowden isn't guilty of treason, not even close. Sedition, espionage, passing classified information, a case can certainly be made for that, but not treason.

It's funny, though, Snowden may be guilty of sedition (which is defined in part as subversion of a constitution) but what the NSA has been doing is also a subversion of the constitution and thus are equally guilty of subversion as is any and all who subvert the US Constitution. If we want to get technical.

So, do you think this Snowden fellow is a traitor?
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:27 am

Obviously not.

But unfortunately the winners write the history books. And with the real traitors holding the reins of power, we know how they'll write this book...:(
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby Night Strike on Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:38 am

The government is working to make it illegal for a person to inform the public of the government acting illegally. They praise it when a private sector person blows the whistle on illegal business activities, but they turn around and make it illegal for the same whistleblowing to happen within the government.
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:22 am

patches70 wrote:John Boehner called NSA leaker Edward Snowden a “traitor”. But is that accurate?

In the United States treason is specifically named and described in the Constitution, the only crime thus defined in the Constitution. It reads like this-

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

To be guilty of treason one must be a citizen and be levying war against the US or giving aid to her enemies.

Snowden gave classified information to the press. Is the press our enemy? Are they waging war against the US?

Snowden isn't guilty of treason, not even close. Sedition, espionage, passing classified information, a case can certainly be made for that, but not treason.

It's funny, though, Snowden may be guilty of sedition (which is defined in part as subversion of a constitution) but what the NSA has been doing is also a subversion of the constitution and thus are equally guilty of subversion as is any and all who subvert the US Constitution. If we want to get technical.

So, do you think this Snowden fellow is a traitor?


Under the constitution, sure. His actions aid the enemy, but by how much? Who knows. I doubt it helps the enemy that much. Even up to 9/11, Al-Qaeda knew that it took the NSA 72 hours to translate their phone calls--and that wasn't released to the public.

I call bullshit, but this is how the government treats whistleblowers of its own bureaus (in general).
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:55 am

This is why I am converting to an all bamboo lifestyle. Everything I own will be made out of bamboo. I mean, you can't hack bamboo! Or if you do, it'll just grow right back fast jack.


--Andy
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby karel on Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:58 am

he should be hung
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby patches70 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:07 pm

karel wrote:he should be hung


why?
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby karel on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:12 pm

he is a traitor...enough said
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:30 pm

patches70 wrote:John Boehner called NSA leaker Edward Snowden a “traitor”. But is that accurate?


No, not in my opinion. Is he a criminal? Probably. But that doesn't mean I consider what he did to be wrong, either. I will say this for him...he has handled this in a very meticulous way. He planned his moves out pretty carefully, I think.

patches70 wrote:To be guilty of treason one must be a citizen and be levying war against the US or giving aid to her enemies.


In fairness, I am starting to think that our government might consider us as their enemies. <smile>

Also, what Dukasaur said about "the winners and history books".
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:31 pm

karel wrote:he is a traitor...enough said


No, that really isn't "enough said"...why specifically do you believe his actions were traitorous?
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby patches70 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:04 pm

karel wrote:he is a traitor...enough said


So, anyone who leaks classified information is a traitor and should be hung?
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:16 pm

*hanged

curtains are hung.

-TG
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:19 pm

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:*hanged
curtains are hung.


While I know you're right, why IS that? I mean...aren't they both in the act of hanging? What's the entymological rationale for the difference?
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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:21 pm

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:*hanged

curtains are hung.

-TG


Sorry TA1lGUNN3R, I think he should be hung like a curtain. That way the wind will whip him around, and the sun will beat its rays down on him. Pure torture.


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Re: He's called a "traitor"

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:24 pm

Woodruff wrote:
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:*hanged
curtains are hung.


While I know you're right, why IS that? I mean...aren't they both in the act of hanging? What's the entymological rationale for the difference?


I'm not sure. I just assumed it's because one refers to a person and the other an object, just like how one capitalizes names and such.

According to Grammar Girl (useful site for these kinds of questions), it's because there were two different words for "hang" in Old English and then some Norse words mixed everything up.

-TG
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