List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Syria

[DoomYoshi]

For you to convince me that there is some reason NOT to bomb Syria, you would have to show me that there is some ethical basis behind Nationalism. As far as I'm concerned, nation states don't have a right to self-govern. Nationalism is the bastard child of racism and imperialism, so you can't in one post say that racism is bad, in another that American oil imperialism is bad and then in another say that Syrian people have the right to be ruled by whoever they want. These are self-defeating arguments.

OK, I'm lost here. Help me follow your train of thought:

1. Nationalism is an extension of racism and imperialism

2. Group X dislikes racism and imperialism

3. Group X feels that Syria should be able to choose their rulers

4. Therefore Group X are hypocrites


The problem here is that I'm not seeing how the third point puts Group X in favor of nationalism. Are you saying that just by existing as a nationstate Syria is an embodiment of racism and imperialism and we should be opposed to them? I also fail to see how we should go from point 4 to bombing Syria.

Point 3 is almost a definition of pro-nationalism. I am not saying we should be opposed to them, just that if you are opposed to racism and imperialism, you must also be opposed to nationalism.

Point 4 doesn't lead to bombing Syria, it just defeats the main anti-bombing argument from this thread.

The reasons we should bomb Syria:
1) Defeat USSR interests
2) more oil money
3) they don't play very many card games, 41 and trex are the only ones that are somewhat common. this is a sign of cultural depravity, and we should show them true culture... the exploding phallic kind.

[BigBallinStalin]

For you to convince me that there is some reason NOT to bomb Syria, you would have to show me that there is some ethical basis behind Nationalism. As far as I'm concerned, nation states don't have a right to self-govern. Nationalism is the bastard child of racism and imperialism, so you can't in one post say that racism is bad, in another that American oil imperialism is bad and then in another say that Syrian people have the right to be ruled by whoever they want. These are self-defeating arguments.

OK, I'm lost here. Help me follow your train of thought:

1. Nationalism is an extension of racism and imperialism

2. Group X dislikes racism and imperialism

3. Group X feels that Syria should be able to choose their rulers

4. Therefore Group X are hypocrites


The problem here is that I'm not seeing how the third point puts Group X in favor of nationalism. Are you saying that just by existing as a nationstate Syria is an embodiment of racism and imperialism and we should be opposed to them? I also fail to see how we should go from point 4 to bombing Syria.

Point 3 is almost a definition of pro-nationalism. I am not saying we should be opposed to them, just that if you are opposed to racism and imperialism, you must also be opposed to nationalism.

Point 4 doesn't lead to bombing Syria, it just defeats the main anti-bombing argument from this thread.

The reasons we should bomb Syria:
1) Defeat USSR interests
2) more oil money
3) they don't play very many card games, 41 and trex are the only ones that are somewhat common. this is a sign of cultural depravity, and we should show them true culture... the exploding phallic kind.

Well, #3 isn't exclusively pro-nationalist. My general view on the ME is that the main source of conflict resolves around a powerful regional state's imposition of disputatious laws over very heterogeneous groups of people; therefore, it makes sense to eschew the 'veil of nationalism' by allowing local groups to secede from the nationalist state (e.g. Kurds leave Iraq, setup their own government, and are happier to rule themselves). That would be 'anti-nationalist' since it requires that the Iraqi nation-state split up. It requires that nationalism be foregone in exchange for a greater solidarity along tribal/ethnic lines.

[AndyDufresne]

Well, #3 isn't exclusively pro-nationalist. My general view on the ME is that the main source of conflict resolves around a powerful regional state's imposition of disputatious laws over very heterogeneous groups of people; therefore, it makes sense to eschew the 'veil of nationalism' by allowing local groups to secede from the nationalist state (e.g. Kurds leave Iraq, setup their own government, and are happier to rule themselves). That would be 'anti-nationalist' since it requires that the Iraqi nation-state split up. It requires that nationalism be foregone in exchange for a greater solidarity along tribal/ethnic lines.

BBS, can I get your Scrabble wordscore on the indicated words?


--Andy

[patches70]

Hey! Let's play a caption contest. We'll use this picture of Putin and Obama in Leningrad for the just started G20 summit-




Obama: "Jeez, I just shit myself, this guy scares the hell out of me. Can I get some toilet paper?"


Putin: "I vill break you"


Obama: "Don't look him in the eye and he won't be inclined to rip my spine out. Just...don't....look...him....in the eye."


Putin: "I just farted"
Obama: "Oh, thank God, for a minute there I thought Moochelle had decided to tag along to this event. Was looking forward to some alone time with Reggie."








Add some of your favorites!

[BigBallinStalin]

Well, #3 isn't exclusively pro-nationalist. My general view on the ME is that the main source of conflict resolves around a powerful regional state's imposition of disputatious laws over very heterogeneous groups of people; therefore, it makes sense to eschew the 'veil of nationalism' by allowing local groups to secede from the nationalist state (e.g. Kurds leave Iraq, setup their own government, and are happier to rule themselves). That would be 'anti-nationalist' since it requires that the Iraqi nation-state split up. It requires that nationalism be foregone in exchange for a greater solidarity along tribal/ethnic lines.

BBS, can I get your Scrabble wordscore on the indicated words?


--Andy

>9000

[saxitoxin]

How about this one for the caption contest, patches?



Look familiar?

[saxitoxin]

UN: "We need 3 more weeks to analyze data."

UN inspectors investigating the use of chemical weapons in Syria are not expected to complete their work for another two to three weeks, increasing the likelihood that any US-led attack may take place before they have delivered their report.

The UN team left Syria with biological and other samples last Saturday and has been asked by the UN secretary general, Ban Ki-moon, to speed up its work. But according to an unnamed western diplomat quoted by the Associated Press in New York on Wednesday, the accelerated timetable will only shave about a week off the original processing time.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/s ... pons-weeks

USA: "Screw that, Poindexter - we don't need your fancy science! Don't you watch YouTube? WARRRRRRR!"

[Qwert]

some video leak in ,THe New Your Times , who show how rebels execute POW. Are this going to have any impact on US decision to invade Syria. I notice that this time majority of comments on this page are very negative toward US involvement in Syria invasion.

Some comments says, that US attack on Syria Government,could make things much worse. Also this could bring Islamist in power to.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/05/world ... st.html?hp


Interesting that i can not find this news on BBC, but usually any negative news against rebels on this channel are hard to find.

[saxitoxin]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/05/world/middleeast/brutality-of-syrian-rebels-pose-dilemma-in-west.html?hp&_r=0

This is a horrible video that all the Chickenhawks should be forced to watch so they know the monsters they're supporting.

[Qwert]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/05/world/middleeast/brutality-of-syrian-rebels-pose-dilemma-in-west.html?hp&_r=0

This is a horrible video that all the Chickenhawks should be forced to watch so they know the monsters they're supporting.

Mine though its that all this, US government know about that very good. If they know who shot bomb with chemical , then they very good know what crimes commit rebels.
Now its present situation are same like coin with bouth side same.

If US decide to not invade, Civil War will continue, with big chance that Government win a war.
If US decide to invade, then things could go worst , rebels wins, and then start new Civil War, where you have many different groups , who have different goals.
Anyway, then Syria will be very unstable like,Libya,Egypt,Iraq,Afghanistan .
US want democracy with use of bombs and force- dictators drop down, and US get chaos and instability .

[saxitoxin]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/05/world/middleeast/brutality-of-syrian-rebels-pose-dilemma-in-west.html?hp&_r=0

This is a horrible video that all the Chickenhawks should be forced to watch so they know the monsters they're supporting.

Mine though its that all this, US government know about that very good. If they know who shot bomb with chemical , then they very good know what crimes commit rebels.

Very true. Israel and the U.S. know but they don't care. They will let Syrians die to meet their other objectives.

Syria has contributed greatly to both the Americans and the Jews ...
- One of the first soldiers who died in the history of the U.S. was a Syrian ... Nathan Badeen, born in Syria, was killed during the Siege of Boston in 1776 while fighting for the U.S. in the Massachusetts Militia.
- The first act of the Syrian general Saladin - after he conquered Jerusalem - was to reopen the city to the Jews.
... and this is how they're repaid, by unleashing Salafi animals to turn Syria into their own macabre amusement park ...

[saxitoxin]

The first of 3 "Hands Off Syria" anti-Obama rallies this week in Portland, Oregon. These were all weekday rallies, I understand this weekend's will be the biggest -

[2dimes]

Wait. Can someone rebut with a picture? I like the one with that woman smoking and pointing at buddies nuts. Not because of the brutality but because the point is during even a more accepted war people are doing horrible things. It's war.

Maybe all war is manufactured by the reptilians to control the rest of us. Is it not still the duty of us the unwashed masses to attempt to be good at our roles as cannon fodder?

If the us citizens are too peaceful that makes us as a continent a target for those easier to suck into fighting, no?

That's nice people are protesting in Portlandia. How's that going, war over yet?

[saxitoxin]

Israeli Lobby Fully Mobilized to Make Sure Syria War Goes Forward ASAP

The powerful pro-Israel lobby AIPAC is planning to launch a major lobbying campaign to push wayward lawmakers to back the resolution authorizing U.S. strikes against Syria, sources said Thursday. Officials say that some 250 Jewish leaders and AIPAC activists will storm the halls on Capitol Hill beginning next week to persuade lawmakers that Congress must adopt the resolution.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/a ... 96344.html

Yay! Once Syria is out of the way there will be no more roadblocks to the extermination of the Palestinians! Best off, it's American soldiers who will risk horrific deaths in combat accomplishing this while Israelis are relaxing, eating popcorn and watching re-runs of All in the Family. They should rename the US Marine Corps the Israeli Butler Corps! Alright! Juan's happy!

"Kill those sand n****** ...

[BigBallinStalin]

Wait. Can someone rebut with a picture? I like the one with that woman smoking and pointing at buddies nuts. Not because of the brutality but because the point is during even a more accepted war people are doing horrible things. It's war.

Maybe all war is manufactured by the reptilians to control the rest of us. Is it not still the duty of us the unwashed masses to attempt to be good at our roles as cannon fodder?

If the us citizens are too peaceful that makes us as a continent a target for those easier to suck into fighting, no?

That's nice people are protesting in Portlandia. How's that going, war over yet?

It all boils down to what kind of reptile you are and at what temperature can you withstand.

[2dimes]

Hot or cold.

I can't take as much cold as I used to, but it's because my metabolism is slower I think.

[Juan_Bottom]

Israeli Lobby Fully Mobilized to Make Sure Syria War Goes Forward ASAP

The powerful pro-Israel lobby AIPAC is planning to launch a major lobbying campaign to push wayward lawmakers to back the resolution authorizing U.S. strikes against Syria, sources said Thursday. Officials say that some 250 Jewish leaders and AIPAC activists will storm the halls on Capitol Hill beginning next week to persuade lawmakers that Congress must adopt the resolution.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/a ... 96344.html

Yay! Once Syria is out of the way there will be no more roadblocks to the extermination of the Palestinians! Best off, it's American soldiers who will risk horrific deaths in combat accomplishing this while Israelis are relaxing, eating popcorn and watching re-runs of All in the Family. They should rename the US Marine Corps the Israeli Butler Corps! Alright! Juan's happy!

"Kill those sand n****** ...

American soldiers won't be invading Syria.
The FSA has around 80,000 rebel fighters; so they don't need fighters. They need help negating their tyrannical dictator's technological advantage. It is for just this reason that America needed France in 1776.

Syria is already smashed and broken. The nation's cash reserves are somewhere below $4 billion (US), and they are weak everywhere. Only a strong, rebuilt Syria can defend Palestine. Assad will never fully regain control ever again. The Rebels won't stop, and he's bled his nation out of money. If Assad was the heroic dictator that you imply he is, then he would step down to save Syria.
If America and Israel didn't set up the new Egyptian or Libyan governments after we aided their people's, then by what twist of logic would we then set up a new Syrian government? And does anyone think that 80,000 armed rebels would just let us tell them how to govern?


As for the racist remarks, your side is the one claiming that all Muslims are the same. You've got patches, BBS, and Frigidus all saying that all rebels in all Muslim country's are radicals, and therefore undeserving of the right of self-governance.

[saxitoxin]

Israeli Lobby Fully Mobilized to Make Sure Syria War Goes Forward ASAP

The powerful pro-Israel lobby AIPAC is planning to launch a major lobbying campaign to push wayward lawmakers to back the resolution authorizing U.S. strikes against Syria, sources said Thursday. Officials say that some 250 Jewish leaders and AIPAC activists will storm the halls on Capitol Hill beginning next week to persuade lawmakers that Congress must adopt the resolution.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/a ... 96344.html

Yay! Once Syria is out of the way there will be no more roadblocks to the extermination of the Palestinians! Best off, it's American soldiers who will risk horrific deaths in combat accomplishing this while Israelis are relaxing, eating popcorn and watching re-runs of All in the Family. They should rename the US Marine Corps the Israeli Butler Corps! Alright! Juan's happy!

"Kill those sand n****** ...

American soldiers won't be invading Syria.
The FSA has around 80,000 rebel fighters; so they don't need fighters. They need help negating their tyrannical dictator's technological advantage. It is for just this reason that America needed France in 1776.

Syria is already smashed and broken. The nation's cash reserves are somewhere below $4 billion (US), and they are weak everywhere. Only a strong, rebuilt Syria can defend Palestine. Assad will never fully regain control ever again. The Rebels won't stop, and he's bled his nation out of money. If Assad was the heroic dictator that you imply he is, then he would step down to save Syria.
If America and Israel didn't set up the new Egyptian or Libyan governments after we aided their people's, then by what twist of logic would we then set up a new Syrian government? And does anyone think that 80,000 armed rebels would just let us tell them how to govern?

As for the racist remarks, your side is the one claiming that all Muslims are the same. You've got patches, BBS, and Frigidus all saying that all rebels in all Muslim country's are radicals, and therefore undeserving of the right of self-governance.

Huh?

[saxitoxin]

Pro-Peace Democrats Unite to Engineer Possible Filibuster of Senate Vote

Reid needs 60 votes to cut off an expected filibuster, and so far, it’s unclear whether he can get them. Republicans will likely only be able to muster roughly 10 to 12 votes to cut off debate, meaning Reid can lose only a handful of his 54 Democrats to move to a final vote on passage.

Progressive Senate Democrats — including Sens. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Tom Harkin of Iowa are seen as potential ‘no’ votes when the resolution reaches the floor, according to Democratic sources.

A number of other Democratic senators and Angus King (I-Maine) are officially undecided or possibly opposed, including Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell of Washington, Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, Mazie Hirono of Hawaii, Mark Udall of Colorado and Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/l ... 96302.html

House Bombarded by Pro-Peace Messages

“The active public is against this,” Rep. Brad Sherman (D-California), told me. “I don’t know a member of Congress whose e-mails and phone calls are in favor of this.”

How against this? The National Review’s Ramesh Ponnuru tweets that “an undeclared senator’s office tells me calls have run roughly 1200-7 against intervention in Syria.” Perhaps that’s an outlier. But so far, there are no outliers on the pro-intervention side, at least that anyone knows about.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... siness_pop

It's great the rational segment of the American public has mobilized to do what little they can to tame the Anti-Arab, frothing-at-the-mouth, Chickenhawks and dropouts hysterically screaming WAR! WAR! WAR!

[Metsfanmax]

It's great the rational segment of the American public has mobilized to do what little they can to tame the Anti-Arab, frothing-at-the-mouth, Chickenhawks and dropouts hysterically screaming WAR! WAR! WAR!

Yes, it is great. I too am confident that if we defeat the "Chickenhawks," that war in Syria will no longer be occurring.

[Frigidus]

It's great the rational segment of the American public has mobilized to do what little they can to tame the Anti-Arab, frothing-at-the-mouth, Chickenhawks and dropouts hysterically screaming WAR! WAR! WAR!

Yes, it is great. I too am confident that if we defeat the "Chickenhawks," that war in Syria will no longer be occurring.

It won't be involving us, at least.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

So what exactly is it that the pro-wars want? I saw in an AP article that "according to senior staff," overturning the Assad regime was not the goal, but merely to "punish" the Assad regime for the chemical attack. How does that jive?

[saxitoxin]

It's great the rational segment of the American public has mobilized to do what little they can to tame the Anti-Arab, frothing-at-the-mouth, Chickenhawks and dropouts hysterically screaming WAR! WAR! WAR!

Yes, it is great. I too am confident that if we defeat the "Chickenhawks," that war in Syria will no longer be occurring.

Correct. The mercenaries were on the verge of defeat. If the Chickenhawks get benched and don't get their wish for air strikes, the war will probably be over by Christmas at the latest with a victory by the government (which is supported by more than 55% of the Syrian people). Airstrikes will keep the mercenaries in play and prolong the suffering of the Syrian people with many more thousands of people dying horrific, lonely deaths - like in the firing squad video Qwert posted - than otherwise would.

The end of war would allow a political dialog to begin, which the UN envoy has said is the only way forward and can only be accomplished after cessation of hostilities. The government has previously demonstrated its willingness to sincerely discuss structural reforms with non-violent opposition. Before the security situation completely collapsed a number of meetings of the non-violent opposition had been occurring in Damascus (here's one of rare reports offered by western media) and they had been directly involved in negotiations with the government over the introduction of the new constitution that was ratified last year (which removes the special legal status of the Socialist Ba'ath Party, term limits the President to 2 terms, allows the legislature to issue binding votes of no-confidence in the Prime Minister, and gives the Supreme Court judicial review).

The violent opposition were enraged, however, the new constitution continued to mandate Civil - instead of Religious - law in Syrian courts and protected women's civil/legal equality, two issues about which Assad was unwilling negotiate (Ba'athism is based on 4 cornerstone principals: feminism, socialism, separation of church and state, and Arab unity).