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List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Syria

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Do You Support Military Action in Syria?

 
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:07 pm

The forces of Rationalism and World Peace cause a slight setback for Obama, McCain and their knuckle-dragging lackeys ...

Prime Minister David Cameron was forced on Wednesday to push back his plans for an imminent military strike against Syria in a humiliating climb-down for Britain's leader after coming under fierce domestic and international pressure. Just a day after recalling Britain's parliament to vote on how to respond to Syria's suspected use of chemical weapons, Cameron was ambushed when the opposition Labour party said it wanted greater parliamentary scrutiny.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/ ... BD20130828


"Hands Off Syria!" - Thousands of Peace Protesters Besieging 10 Downing Street


In Sydney, Australia ... Video of 3,000+ Syrian-Australians march against attacking Syria. Larger protests planned![/url]
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby Army of GOD on Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:23 pm

tkr4lf wrote:27. My ass.


The list of things MORE popular than your ass is pretty damn short.
mrswdk is a ho
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby Juan_Bottom on Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:00 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Qwert wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Why do you guys even think that?

Iran literally cannot in any way oppose Saudi Arabia, the leader of OPEC. If they do, Saudi Arabia will cancel all sales of Iranian Oil across the globe. All Iran can do is give guns to Hezbollah and Assad. Saudi Arabia is aiding the FSA.

Russia doesn't even border Syria, and they so they can't do anything but offer free guns to Assad either.



Somebody makes money in every war. There are a lot of opportunistic douchebags out there.

funny, US also dont board Syria
Boston(US)-Damaskus 8796 km
Sochi(Russia)-Damaskus 1160 km
----------------------------------------------------


Haha, I never noticed the underlined. JB has no idea how the market for oil and OPEC operate. Haha, Saudi Arabia can't simply cancel their sales; it's not like all sales go through them. lol, that's the funniest thing I've pictured. The sheik sits in the Iran-China meetings and establishes quotas which are backed by his... giant army? his mighty harlem? I dunno, haha.


Another gem:
"Russia doesn't even border Syria, and they so they can't do anything but offer free guns to Assad either."

Well, there's these things called boats, and not only can they hold "free guns" (haha), they can also hold people--specifically, soldiers. The Russians have the capital to move armies into there, but they're not willing to intervene through such means.


Actually, you don't understand how OPEC works.
Saudi Arabia has cancelled another country's Oil Sales before, in response to them defying the Saudi's. Saudi Arabia actually sets the oil quotas for every member nation of OPEC.
They can do this because they have the largest reserve of the cheapest oil on the planet. They keep 1 full year's worth of GDP in reserve, so their entire country can go a full year without making a single dollar, and it won't effect their standard of living at all. They once flooded the world with cheap oil to force other oil producing countries into talks to form OPEC. It's economic warfar with natural resources, but it's legal and effective. Why do you think the price of gas rose after the Invasion of Iraq? Because Saudi Arabia raised the price, knowing that America had to pay whatever fuel price it took to keep it's army in Iraq. Hugo Chavez laughed and laughed about this on his talk show.
Essentially, they can give away every single barrel of oil that they produce, for free, for a full year, just so that Iran can't sell any. And yes, the Saudi's do control Iran's Oil.

Should the price of Oil rise too high, then Venezuela will become the richest Oil Producer in the world. They have a giant deposit of oil, but it's more expensive to pump it than Saudi Oil.


TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Haha. Right. Just like we were bringing democracy and womens' rights to Iraq.

/chuckle

-TG


That was the Bush Administration. Say what you want about Obama's policies, but I don't blame him for invading Vietnam either.

What did Obama steal from Libya?

Qwert wrote:funny, US also dont board Syria
Boston(US)-Damaskus 8796 km
Sochi(Russia)-Damaskus 1160 km
----------------------------------------------------


That's a really good point. I would welcome Russian intervention if they were going there to stop the war. But if they are going to try to stop us from ending the fighting then I don't give a damn what sabre they want to wag.

Actually Qwert, I thought that you would be on my side of this discussion. The world watched and waited until nearly the end in Bosnia, and being European I thought you'd draw a parallel here like I do.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16978803
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby Juan_Bottom on Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:18 pm

patches70 wrote:Obama is an idiot.

And to correct Juan, as the neocons and war hawks always try to do, it is not "isolationism" when we say we don't want to get involved with other nation's internal problems and conflicts. It's called non-intervention and it's far different from isolationism. We don't want to stop trading, stop diplomatic relations. To be a good neighbor means not getting into your neighbor's business unless that neighbor is threatening you.
Syria is absolutely zero threat to the US, period. This civil war is zero threat to the stability of the world even. The threat and instability come from intervention.

Isolationism is just completely cutting off one's nation from everyone else. Trade, immigration, diplomatic ties and everything else. There is no one who is advocating isolationism and I get sick of people like Juan who try and say that those of us who advise against such follies as getting embroiled in another's civil war is somehow "isolationism". It isn't, so stop trying to make that case.
Interventionism and Isolationism are the extremes. Few nations in the world are either of those. Most nations of the world are non interventionists. As it should be. Interventionism causes blowback and increases threats. A good thing if one is wanting to expand power and act irresponsibly without being held to account. As is the current trend of the US.


I stopped reading this after the part where you said Obama was stupid, but then skimmed and saw my name.

WWI or WWII mean anything to you at all? It's called Isolationism when you refuse to take sides or aid anyone in any way. It's not avoiding all countries; it's avoiding any solid agreements. There is always enough information available to form an opinion, hence Isolationism is rife with inherit ethical problems. If you're going to watch a government bomb it's own civilians to death; then you're a bad guy. Isolationism only helps the Oppressor.
If you refuse to help a country at war: that is Non-interventionism.
If you refuse any contracts or agreements: that is Isolationism.

Are you talking about sending food, water, shelters, cash, and medical supplies to either side of the fight? No? Then you're an Isolationist. Read a f*cking dictionary before you tell me that you're sick of people correctly using labels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolationism


saxitoxin wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:You can't source this.


I can't "source" the very heavily covered Aleppo suicide bombings? Jesus Juan, I know you just learned Syria exists last month but you sound as intelligent as someone demanding I "source" the moon landing.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16978803

I'm sure you have some conspiracy theory about why the BBC (or the thousand other media outlets who covered the Aleppo bombings 18 mos ago) can't be trusted.

Between this and your conspiracy theories "major corporations secretly don't want war, that's why we need to support John McCain and his war march" you just sound like any other run of the mill GED recipient Chickenhawk who wants other people to do the fighting he's too afraid to do ... but will eagerly provide moral support from the rear by making posts on Facebook.

The heart thing is probably just a story to strike fear in the minds of the stupid. There was a video of a rebel putting a kidney or something in his mouth and acting scary, but he didn't eat it.


LOL ... http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23190533

Every post of yours gets funnier by the word. You're so desperate you're now just making shit up on the fly to fill in your gaps of knowledge. Juan, are you able to locate Syria on a map? Hell, are you able to locate the U.S. on a map?

Essentially, the FSA


Please don't try to impart your vast Wiki knowledge of Syria. As funny as it is, it's also hopelessly sad.

Don't post in this thread again unless it's to show a scan of the DD4 you just signed at your nearest recruiting station.


Actually your links say that the FSA wasn't responsible for the suicide bombing.

Also, the UN declared that the commander gutting and enemy soldier was a war crime, but that he didn't actually eat the man's heart. Either way, the FSA took responsibility for his actions and restructured it's command leadership. Sh*t happens in war, and personally between the UN and the Commander's own words it seems more and more like he only pretended to eat body parts for show; to scare stupid people.
Either way, your own links say just what I said.

And you forgot to source the most gruesome claims that you made.

Please don't try to impart your vast Wiki knowledge of Syria. As funny as it is, it's also hopelessly sad.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:48 pm

Li'l Goebbels wrote:Actually your links say that the FSA wasn't responsible for the suicide bombing.


Actually, no, it says they denied responsibility, like OJ denied killing Nicole.

First you run around in a tizzy saying there's no source (for a heavily covered news event you, astonishingly, hadn't heard of since you only discovered where Syria was one week ago), then you further embarrass yourself by barfing out that?

Li'l Goebbels wrote:Also, the UN declared that the commander gutting and enemy soldier was a war crime, but that he didn't actually eat the man's heart.


LMAO - the UN "declared" that, huh? Is this more stuff you've made up to fill in your remarkable - utterly astonishing - gaps of knowledge? What office of the UN is responsible for reviewing YouTube videos, Li'l G? Please do enlighten us. Please.

You're a joke.

saxitoxin wrote:Please don't try to impart your vast Wiki knowledge of Syria. As funny as it is, it's also hopelessly sad.
Li'l Goebbels wrote:Please don't try to impart your vast Wiki knowledge of Syria. As funny as it is, it's also hopelessly sad.


I'd say act your age, but the "I know you are, but what am I" line has it nailed. Bravo, kiddo. The thing is, unlike you, Syria is actually important to me for IRL reasons. It's not someplace that got crammed down my throat from blood 'n guts CNN and I then Wiki'ed and decided it would be a good thing to spout on about while taking a break from trying to find Koni. (BTW, you haven't posted your signed DD4 yet. I'm sure your US Army recruiting office was open today.)

Last edited by saxitoxin on Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby warmonger1981 on Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:57 pm

Last I heard Venezuela has an agreement with Cuba to export 55% of its oil at a discounted price. Dosnt oil have to be paid for strictly in US dollars?
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby patches70 on Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:05 pm

warmonger1981 wrote:Last I heard Venezuela has an agreement with Cuba to export 55% of its oil at a discounted price. Dosnt oil have to be paid for strictly in US dollars?


Venezuela is a member of the dollar exclusion zone, they don't have to sell their oil in petro-dollars. Members of the exclusion zone trade with each other using their own currencies and don't have to convert to US $'s first.

Yet another development launched by China and Russia to circumvent the dollar (and US economic hegemony) that most people don't seem to be aware of. Australia just recently joined the Asian dollar exclusion zone a few months ago. Other members are Iran, Brazil, China, Russia, India and Japan.
For instance, India purchases it's oil from Iran and pays in rupees. All these nations have bilateral trade agreements that exclude using the US dollar. There are more countries part of the zone that I can't think of right off the top of my head.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby patches70 on Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:34 pm

What reasons for intervention are you giving, Juan? Because we have a responsibility to stop Assad? Even though what Obama is proposing will do no such thing, he's claiming that it will only be limited strikes. That the administration is not using the strikes to remove Assad, but rather to punish them for (supposedly) crossing Obama's "Red Line".

On the other hand, there are a crap load of reasons not to launch strikes.

1. The US people are overwhelmingly against getting involved. (Hows that democracy thing?)

2. Obama does not have Congressional approval to strike Syria. (He needs it, the Constitution is quite clear on the matter).

3. Obama doesn't have UN approval to strike Syria. (and he ain't gonna get it either).

4. The Syrians are likely to fight back*. (See below)

5. Striking Syria will cause attacks upon Israel and lead to a widening of the war. (Right now the violence is contained within Syria. By all means, let's expand that!)

6. Striking Syria damages our relationships with Russia and China. (Probably not a good idea).

7. There is evidence that Syrian rebel factions are the ones launching the chemical attacks. (There have been others, striking that we don't seem to remember that it was already found out that Syrian rebels have already used chemical weapons, caught red handed. That's why the US doesn't want an investigation of this latest attack, because it just might be learned that it wasn't Assad or the Syrian government that launched the attack at all).-
http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/video-shows- ... -in-syria/

8. The Saudi's are eager for the Assad regime to be toppled, and they are using the US to do. (The US shouldn't be anyone's lap dog, not the House of Saud, not the Israeli's).

9. Oil prices will skyrocket. A good thing for those invested, but for the rest of the people, not a good thing at all. (Since we aren't going to be taxed to fund these wars and police actions, we'll pay through other means. This hurts those who can least afford it).

10. The Syrian rebels are backed by the very people who attacked the US on 9/11. (By all means, let's help terrorist organizations take control of another country).
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... n/2075323/
and-
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 86680.html

11. A lot of innocent civilians will be killed with our "limited kinetic strikes". (Who cares about them right? So long as we get "the bad guys", a few innocents along the way is no big deal).

*And what if Syria fights back? what if they shoot down some of our planes? Syria also has the latest ship killing surface to surface missiles provided to them by Russia. What if a US destroyer gets blasted to hell from one of them? Syria also has the S-300 anti air missiles, provided to them by Russia.
What starts as a "limited attack" quickly turns into a full blown war. Should the Syrians just sit back and let US warplanes drop bombs on them? Should they sit back and let US naval ships fire cruise missiles and do nothing about it?
They would be well within their rights to fight back. And if they get lucky, we'll blame the Syrians even though it was us who put such a thing into action.
Yeah, what if Syria fights back and gives us a bloody nose (or a bruise), you think the limited action will stay limited? It'll just widen the war and the administration will claim "we have to defend ourselves and answer this attack on our military forces" even though it will be our military forces initiating the violence.

There are even more reasons not to get involved in Syria's civil war. By all means, send humanitarian supplies. Not a thing wrong with that (so long as the supplies are procured through voluntary means and securely delivered). Those 9% of Americans who want the US to go into Syria should be the ones who pay the bill. And be responsible for the blood spilled and what comes after.

There is no plan in place to deal with the aftermath. There is no plan to determine who will control Syria after Assad is toppled. All the misgivings that were put on Bush jr are being repeated debacle after debacle by the current administration. And not a word from the Obamaphiles addressing the hypocrisy at all.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby Juan_Bottom on Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Actually, no, it says they denied responsibility, like OJ denied killing Nicole.

First you run around in a tizzy saying there's no source (for a heavily covered news event you, astonishingly, hadn't heard of since you only discovered where Syria was one week ago), then you further embarrass yourself by barfing out that?


Actually no, the BBC doesn't say that they did do it. They just said that it happened. In Syria. And that the FSA is also in Syria. And so is Bashar. And al-Nustra. And al-Qaeda.
So yeah, you fail at sourcing your outlandish lies. I would have just said you were innocently misinformed, but you keep pushing this as if it's a true story.
And for you to claim that is proof that the FSA did do it just shows how much of a crazy cook your character really is.

saxitoxin wrote:LMAO - the UN "declared" that, huh? Is this more stuff you've made up to fill in your remarkable - utterly astonishing - gaps of knowledge? What office of the UN is responsible for reviewing YouTube videos, Li'l G? Please do enlighten us. Please.

You're a joke.

Google it, that's where you're getting everything from anyway. That and Alex Jones. By now you're sure to understand that I don't say anything that I don't mean to say. If I say that the UN said nobody ate a thing in the video, then that's what someone at the UN said on behalf of the UN.

You're such a huge liar,
But I don't really care because you're not even a real person. You're just some crazy nut character that some jerkoff came up with to troll people on the interweb. I wouldn't even respond to your propaganda except that I've heard people say things like "Saxi makes me think" and "he nows a lot" (misspelling intentional). I feel obligated to respond to your posts if only for those people who think that you know a lot; to remind them that you're a fictional character who's full of bullsh*t. You start off the thread talking about how James Blunt somehow stopped an American conspiracy to start WWIII with Russia, and now they're using Syria to start WWIII with Russia. And then you changed tactic; just running your mouth off about how the FSA has been committing war crimes, violating UN, and thus not deserving of aid. Meanwhile you support Assad and want the UN to aid Assad.
    You know who's committed the most war crimes of anybody here? Assad.
    You know who violated UN laws before the conflict? Assad.
    Do you know who the people peacefully gathered to protest against? Assad.
    Do you know who arrests political prisoners and tortures them? Assad.
    You know who then ordered his army to bomb the people for protesting? Assad.
    You know who has banned journalists from Syria? Assad. Do you know who welcomes journalists? THE FSA.
    We can't help the Syrians because corporations will make money off of it. Do you know who has made money off of Syria already? ASSAD (1.5 Billion in cash, in Russian and Chinese banks)
    Obama is a horrible person because he allows the NSA to spy on Americans. Do you know who spies on Syrian internet traffic? Assad.
    Do you know who censors Syrian media and internet? Assad.
You're a huge hypocrite. Everything that you're crying about is institutionalized government policy under Assad's regime.




In February 2012, Colvin crossed into Syria on the back of a motocross motorcycle, ignoring the Syrian government's attempts to prevent foreign journalists from entering Syria to cover the Syrian civil war without permission. Colvin was stationed in the western Baba Amr district of the city of Homs, and made her last broadcast on the evening of February 21, appearing on the BBC, Channel 4, CNN and ITN News via satellite phone.[24] She described "merciless", indiscriminate shelling and sniper attacks against civilian buildings and people on the streets of Homs by Syrian forces.[2] Colvin, who had lost an eye to shrapnel in Sri Lanka and had covered conflicts in Chechnya, Kosovo, Sierra Leone, Zimbabwe, Libya, and East Timor, described the bombardment of Homs as the worst conflict she had ever experienced.[25]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Colvin

Colvin died together with another award-winning French photographer Rémi Ochlik. An autopsy conducted in Damascus by the Syrian government concluded Marie Colvin was killed by an "improvised explosive device filled with nails. The Syrian government claims the explosive device was planted by terrorists[26]on February 22, 2012 while fleeing an unofficial media building which was being shelled by the Syrian Army.[15][27][28] Journalist Jean-Pierre Perrin and other sources reported that the building had been targeted by the Syrian Army, identified using satellite phone signals.[29] Their team had been planning an exit strategy a few hours prior.[18] On the evening of February 22, 2012, people of Homs mourned in the streets in honour of Colvin and Ochlik. Tributes were paid to Colvin across the media industry and political world following her death.[30][31] The Sunday Times reported that Colvin had died with Ochlik trying to retrieve their shoes to escape army bombardment of the building they were in; footage emerged from Syria reporting the burial of their bodies in a garden near where they were killed, before they were exhumed and taken to Damascus before repatriation.[32][33][34][35][36]

Colvin's funeral took place in Oyster Bay, New York on 12 March 2012, in a service attended by 300 mourners including those who had followed her dispatches, friends and family.[37]


I want to share this to make sure everyone is aware of Marie Colvin. NPR carried this story for weeks. An American journalist took shelter in a civilian home during the battle of Hom, to report what was happening there. The Syrian Army bombed that house. This is where you should be getting your news from. I don't even know the details of this chemical attack that's being discussed here, because nobody really knows the details. The BBC, NPR, they're just reporting it as an event.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:06 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Qwert wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Why do you guys even think that?

Iran literally cannot in any way oppose Saudi Arabia, the leader of OPEC. If they do, Saudi Arabia will cancel all sales of Iranian Oil across the globe. All Iran can do is give guns to Hezbollah and Assad. Saudi Arabia is aiding the FSA.

Russia doesn't even border Syria, and they so they can't do anything but offer free guns to Assad either.



Somebody makes money in every war. There are a lot of opportunistic douchebags out there.

funny, US also dont board Syria
Boston(US)-Damaskus 8796 km
Sochi(Russia)-Damaskus 1160 km
----------------------------------------------------


Haha, I never noticed the underlined. JB has no idea how the market for oil and OPEC operate. Haha, Saudi Arabia can't simply cancel their sales; it's not like all sales go through them. lol, that's the funniest thing I've pictured. The sheik sits in the Iran-China meetings and establishes quotas which are backed by his... giant army? his mighty harlem? I dunno, haha.


Another gem:
"Russia doesn't even border Syria, and they so they can't do anything but offer free guns to Assad either."

Well, there's these things called boats, and not only can they hold "free guns" (haha), they can also hold people--specifically, soldiers. The Russians have the capital to move armies into there, but they're not willing to intervene through such means.


Actually, you don't understand how OPEC works.
Saudi Arabia has cancelled another country's Oil Sales before, in response to them defying the Saudi's. Saudi Arabia actually sets the oil quotas for every member nation of OPEC.


Citation needed.

I know that OPEC* sets oil quotas, but who follows them, and how are they enforced?

*Saudi King/his henchmen is ONE of the major decision-makers of OPEC.

(You're still incorrect about everything else, including the above gem. Does that ever give you pause to think? Or does your ideology dominant all your thought?)
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby Juan_Bottom on Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:27 am

patches70 wrote:What reasons for intervention are you giving, Juan? Because we have a responsibility to stop Assad? Even though what Obama is proposing will do no such thing, he's claiming that it will only be limited strikes. That the administration is not using the strikes to remove Assad, but rather to punish them for (supposedly) crossing Obama's "Red Line".

On the other hand, there are a crap load of reasons not to launch strikes.

1. The US people are overwhelmingly against getting involved. (Hows that democracy thing?)
2. Obama does not have Congressional approval to strike Syria. (He needs it, the Constitution is quite clear on the matter).
3. Obama doesn't have UN approval to strike Syria. (and he ain't gonna get it either).
4. The Syrians are likely to fight back*. (See below)
5. Striking Syria will cause attacks upon Israel and lead to a widening of the war. (Right now the violence is contained within Syria. By all means, let's expand that!)
6. Striking Syria damages our relationships with Russia and China. (Probably not a good idea).
7. There is evidence that Syrian rebel factions are the ones launching the chemical attacks. (There have been others, striking that we don't seem to remember that it was already found out that Syrian rebels have already used chemical weapons, caught red handed. That's why the US doesn't want an investigation of this latest attack, because it just might be learned that it wasn't Assad or the Syrian government that launched the attack at all).-
http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/video-shows- ... -in-syria/
8. The Saudi's are eager for the Assad regime to be toppled, and they are using the US to do. (The US shouldn't be anyone's lap dog, not the House of Saud, not the Israeli's).
9. Oil prices will skyrocket. A good thing for those invested, but for the rest of the people, not a good thing at all. (Since we aren't going to be taxed to fund these wars and police actions, we'll pay through other means. This hurts those who can least afford it).
10. The Syrian rebels are backed by the very people who attacked the US on 9/11. (By all means, let's help terrorist organizations take control of another country).
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... n/2075323/
and-
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 86680.html
11. A lot of innocent civilians will be killed with our "limited kinetic strikes". (Who cares about them right? So long as we get "the bad guys", a few innocents along the way is no big deal).


1) There isn't a single person in this thread who is informed about the Syrian conflict, except for perhaps the Kuwaiti. And I only say that because he's aware of the factions.

2) He doesn't need it. He only needs its for "war."

3) Waiting for UN approval is Morally Unethical. We waited for UN approval to defend Kuwait, because we could afford to. We waited for UN approval to protect Bosnians against ethnic cleansing, and it was wrong. They died by the hundreds so we could make sure we got all the signatures in order. If we're going to wait for 100,000 more people to die, then who are we defending? The UN isn't the highest moral authority; it's not designed for world peace or protecting human rights. It's designed to impose the will of the members of the UN Security Council on the rest of the globe. The UN is arguably useless for saving lives. So I find it irrelevant in situations like this. Syrians gathered peacefully to protest for more human rights, and Syria's dictator bombed them. Why is the UN supporting his leadership? They're irrelevant.
Letting people die until we wait for permission to save their lives is just not very ethical.

4) Let them fight back. All we're there for is what the French were here for in 1776; to negate their technological advantage. Thusly it'll be a ground war with Assad's Army and Hezbollah on one side, and the FSA and splinter groups on the other. I sincerely doubt that the US is just going to throw billion dollar planes at Syrian samsites. This is just Sabre rattling.

5) No it wont. That doesn't make sense from any perspective. Attacking Israel just gives all of Syria's enemies what they want, while ensuring that Russian and Chinese media begrudge Syria for it's stupidity.
In every single thread you guys are like "Russia and China, Russia and China...." but they've never done anything hostile when you guys have said they would. Nobody wants a global war or economic catastrophe.

6) Who cares? Actually Chinese and Russian opinions of the USA have been steadily rising in the past decade, according to gallup polling. Besides this, the Chinese economy is dependent on the American economy, and they're dependent on the US fleet to protect the world shipping lanes for their cheap goods.

7) The video is bunk. It opens with "God Bless Syria, Al-Assad"
Al Assad is the "president" of Syria. It's propaganda.
There's no reason for the FSA to attack Civilians at all. The FSA was founded by Syrian soldiers who abandoned the army when they were ordered to attack civilian targets. So why would they attack them now? Yes, there have been war crimes committed by the FSA, mainly summary execution. But in response to this problem, the FSA restructured itself under a new command structure, and has allowed quite a lot of transparency with journalists and the UN. Remember; the FSA has no political goals aside from democratic elections. Assad, meanwhile, has a media blackout inside his borders. That's how Marie Colvin was killed.

8. The Saudi's pledged the heaviest weaponry first, and they're the ones who were funneling surplus weapons to the FSA from the start, so at least they are putting their money where their mouth is. And anyway, this is not an argument for why it's morally wrong to help the Syrian people.

9) If Saudi Arabia supports US aid, they can suppress oil prices if they choose.
However, if they choose not to I don't care. I am not a Libertarian. I would pay higher gas prices if it meant saving lives.

10) Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. It's even more complicated than that. But Assad has been torturing political prisoners since becoming president. We transported al-Qaeda members there to be tortured during Bush's presidency. al-Nustra is there, Hezbollah, and 30 or more other groups. No matter what, the Assad Ogliarchy's time is running out. The FSA is the only group involved with a chance to take complete control of Syria, and they also happen to be the only one that wants democratic elections. Their numbers are larger than all other groups combined, they only lack the technology. Just like the US in 1776. By not helping the FSA we will be helping these actual terrorist groups seize their corner of Syria from which to launch attacks against America and it's allies.

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11) That's your position? 100,000 people have already died and you're still arguing that we do nothing. I'm the one borrowing the line from Patton here saying let's put an end to this sh*t, save some lives, be true to ourselves, and keep some friends.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby Juan_Bottom on Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:43 am

patches70 wrote:10. The Syrian rebels are backed by the very people who attacked the US on 9/11. (By all means, let's help terrorist organizations take control of another country).
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... n/2075323/
and-
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 86680.html


"Syrian Rebels" isn't the same thing as the FSA, who are the good guys.

This is from one of your links.
The pledge of allegiance by Syrian Jabhat al Nusra Front chief Abou Mohamad al-Joulani to al-Qaeda leader Sheik Ayman al-Zawahri was coupled with an announcement by the al-Qaeda affiliate in Iraq, the Islamic State of Iraq, that it would work with al Nusra as well.


al-Nustra is fighting the Syrian government, and is also fighting the FSA.
The FSA are fighting these terrorists.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:49 am

Juan wrote:That was the Bush Administration. Say what you want about Obama's policies, but I don't blame him for invading Vietnam either.


Like I said, chuckle. The fact that you think there's a difference speaks volumes. In any other situation I would "let's agree to disagree," however I think in the case of wrongful and immoral invasion or bombing of a sovereign nation for selfish political gain we can't even do that.

-TG
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:05 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Actually, no, it says they denied responsibility, like OJ denied killing Nicole.

First you run around in a tizzy saying there's no source (for a heavily covered news event you, astonishingly, hadn't heard of since you only discovered where Syria was one week ago), then you further embarrass yourself by barfing out that?


Actually no, the BBC doesn't say that they did do it. They just said that it happened. In Syria. And that the FSA is also in Syria.


Cool. Here ya' go:

http://www.stratfor.com/sample/analysis ... o-bombings
    (from the USG's own fav group of ppl)"Despite its denial, the Free Syrian Army or one of its offshoots was likely responsible for the bombings in Aleppo."

(Twenty posts ago you charged in here having not even heard of the Aleppo bombings - and now you be tellin' us like it is! Love it! :P You have a little homework to do, though.)

Juan_Bottom wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:LMAO - the UN "declared" that, huh? Is this more stuff you've made up to fill in your remarkable - utterly astonishing - gaps of knowledge? What office of the UN is responsible for reviewing YouTube videos, Li'l G? Please do enlighten us. Please.


Google it


So that's a no, then?

Juan_Bottom wrote:Alex Jones.


This one is particularly hilarious and fills me with delight given my searchable history of lampooning Alex Jones here, who is (nearly) as batshit crazy as you with your conspiracy theories and thousand-word rants.

Juan-Bottom wrote:I want to share this to make sure everyone is aware of Marie Colvin.


(LMAO) Glad you finally stumbled across a Wikipedia entry on this, Juan! We had a 112-post discussion about this more than a year ago ...

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=165482&hilit=colvin

... I guess you were too busy looking for Koni back then to care much at the time.

    EDIT - P.S. - Can you please give us an update on your enlistment plans? (EDIT2 - Third request.)
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:18 am

an absolutely incredible, 60-second, emotion-filled appeal from the legendary Dr. Tim Anderson, acclaimed human rights writer and Senior Lecturer in Political Economy at the University of Sydney, against Barack McCain and the corporate warmongers and in support of the children of Syria at the HANDS OFF SYRIA rally in Sydney, Australia -

"What a tragedy in Iraq! We cannot allow that to happen to your country!"


So who should you listen to?

Do you want to ride the Peace & Reason Engine or buy a ticket on the Krazy Kaboose (next stop - Angry Diatribe Junction)?
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby Qwert on Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:13 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Qwert wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Why do you guys even think that?

Iran literally cannot in any way oppose Saudi Arabia, the leader of OPEC. If they do, Saudi Arabia will cancel all sales of Iranian Oil across the globe. All Iran can do is give guns to Hezbollah and Assad. Saudi Arabia is aiding the FSA.

Russia doesn't even border Syria, and they so they can't do anything but offer free guns to Assad either.



Somebody makes money in every war. There are a lot of opportunistic douchebags out there.

funny, US also dont board Syria
Boston(US)-Damaskus 8796 km
Sochi(Russia)-Damaskus 1160 km
----------------------------------------------------


Haha, I never noticed the underlined. JB has no idea how the market for oil and OPEC operate. Haha, Saudi Arabia can't simply cancel their sales; it's not like all sales go through them. lol, that's the funniest thing I've pictured. The sheik sits in the Iran-China meetings and establishes quotas which are backed by his... giant army? his mighty harlem? I dunno, haha.


Another gem:
"Russia doesn't even border Syria, and they so they can't do anything but offer free guns to Assad either."

Well, there's these things called boats, and not only can they hold "free guns" (haha), they can also hold people--specifically, soldiers. The Russians have the capital to move armies into there, but they're not willing to intervene through such means.


Actually, you don't understand how OPEC works.
Saudi Arabia has cancelled another country's Oil Sales before, in response to them defying the Saudi's. Saudi Arabia actually sets the oil quotas for every member nation of OPEC.
They can do this because they have the largest reserve of the cheapest oil on the planet. They keep 1 full year's worth of GDP in reserve, so their entire country can go a full year without making a single dollar, and it won't effect their standard of living at all. They once flooded the world with cheap oil to force other oil producing countries into talks to form OPEC. It's economic warfar with natural resources, but it's legal and effective. Why do you think the price of gas rose after the Invasion of Iraq? Because Saudi Arabia raised the price, knowing that America had to pay whatever fuel price it took to keep it's army in Iraq. Hugo Chavez laughed and laughed about this on his talk show.
Essentially, they can give away every single barrel of oil that they produce, for free, for a full year, just so that Iran can't sell any. And yes, the Saudi's do control Iran's Oil.

Should the price of Oil rise too high, then Venezuela will become the richest Oil Producer in the world. They have a giant deposit of oil, but it's more expensive to pump it than Saudi Oil.


TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Haha. Right. Just like we were bringing democracy and womens' rights to Iraq.

/chuckle

-TG


That was the Bush Administration. Say what you want about Obama's policies, but I don't blame him for invading Vietnam either.

What did Obama steal from Libya?

Qwert wrote:funny, US also dont board Syria
Boston(US)-Damaskus 8796 km
Sochi(Russia)-Damaskus 1160 km
----------------------------------------------------


That's a really good point. I would welcome Russian intervention if they were going there to stop the war. But if they are going to try to stop us from ending the fighting then I don't give a damn what sabre they want to wag.

Actually Qwert, I thought that you would be on my side of this discussion. The world watched and waited until nearly the end in Bosnia, and being European I thought you'd draw a parallel here like I do.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16978803

Like i say earlier, what if rebels use chemical weapons, then what?
You only see one side, but not other, so Assad make more crimes, and rebels make less crimes, and that ok?
FSA have 100000 armed soldiers, and this its Civil War, this are not threat for US or UK. Even Poland and Austria refuse to take part in this Invasion, and its question if will any other NAto member take part in this War (except France).
This will be again trip of US to new conflict, make this from Internal Civil War, to international conflict.
Its best to US to give weapons to FSA, and not interfere, so they will save US lives, and not bring more hate for US people.
And only 9% of Citizens of US support invasion, but who cares abouth that.
And all this money what will be spend on bombs, could be use for much smart things in US.
If you dont going to participate in conflict, then its not ok to support that some other go in your name to die in country who are 9000 km away from your country. You will be live and could agitate for new war (iran maybe) and again some young soldier will fight in another country away, to die for Rich People, who only care for more and more money on hes pockets.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:18 am

saxi, what are the IRL reasons that cause you to care specifically about Syria?
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:28 am

Meh. Once the ad hom attacks started I switched sides. Let's go Juan_Bottom!
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby Frito Bandito on Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:59 am

28. Saxi
Nah, just kidding!

Does anybodt even read his posts? Slow learners :D
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:24 am

Anti-war Democrats in Congress are getting the band back together. Democrats who made their names opposing the Iraq war are not staying silent as a president of their own party prepares to attack Syria. The anti-war Democrats are just organizing and starting to gain steam. Many of them admitted they’re likely to gather more force after a potential attack occurs instead of before it.

“There is ferment out there — you just haven’t seen it yet,” said Rep. Jim McDermott (D-Wash.). “If they fire rockets in there, you’ll see a lot of people saying this is an absolute mistake, they should not have done it, I do not support it. The storm will follow if [Obama] goes without having the backing of the Congress.”

Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.) said he hasn’t consulted with colleagues about how best to oppose attacks in Syria.

“It’s a fact that its difficult sometimes to criticize a president who belongs to your party,” Grayson said. “That certainly is true and my feeling is that I never swore allegiance to the president, I swore to uphold the Constitution.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/s ... 96008.html


    - rebellion in Congress
    - 9% U.S. domestic support for attack and plummeting presidential approval ratings
    - global protests (the UK is on the verge of erupting!)
    - warnings from Russia and China

... it may be enough to overpower the AIPAC blood money stuffed into Barack McCain's pockets and send him meekly slinking back into the slime with some lame excuse to save face. Meanwhile, a French prosecutor begins an official investigation into U.S. crimes under Barack.

UPDATE! (edit)
Great news! Joining the growing list of progressive icons standing up to Barack McCain's war, the legendary anti-Bush protestor Cindy Sheehan - "the Rosa Parks of the Anti-War Movement"- and the ANSWER Coalition (the people who brought you the 300,000 person march against Bush in 2005) are laying the groundwork for a series of 53 nationwide protests to rally the nation against Obama --

http://cindysheehanssoapbox.blogspot.com
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:32 am

saxitoxin wrote:The thing is, unlike you, Syria is actually important to me for IRL reasons.


Phew. Glad we got that covered. So you agree we should invade?
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:43 am

DoomYoshi wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:The thing is, unlike you, Syria is actually important to me for IRL reasons.


Phew. Glad we got that covered. So you agree we should invade?


The IRL reasons saxi mentions---are of course his natural affinity for chemical weapons, him being a paralytic toxin himself. Solidarity among chemical chains.


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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:21 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:The thing is, unlike you, Syria is actually important to me for IRL reasons.


Phew. Glad we got that covered. So you agree we should invade?


The IRL reasons saxi mentions---are of course his natural affinity for chemical weapons, him being a paralytic toxin himself. Solidarity among chemical chains.


This just in, GLaDOS, Saxitoxin stand in solidarity with their chemical comrades.

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