The Beijing Consensus - Europe agrees

[mrswdk]

Unrestrained free speech poses multiple threats to the public good and social order, and European states agree with China that 'freedom of speech' does not equal 'the freedom to say anything one pleases'.

Citizens have the right to hold views and opinions, but sometimes it goes against the public good to allow certain opinions to be given a largescale platform for dissemination. As the government bears ultimate responsibility for the social stability necessary for secure economic growth and security, it falls to the government to ensure society is not disrupted by those seeking to overturn social order.

American society allows itself to implode at the hands of nut job populists - European and Eastern society does not.

NUS 'right to have no platform policy'

Nearly two-thirds (63%) of university students believe the National Union of Students is right to have a "no platforming" policy, a survey suggests.

The policy means people or groups on a banned list for holding racist or fascist views are not given a platform to speak on student union premises.

And 54% of 1,001 students asked thought the policy should be enforced against people who could be found intimidating.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36101423

Government announces new clause to be inserted into grant agreements

Organisations receiving government grants will be banned from using these taxpayer funds to lobby government and Parliament.

The Institute of Economic Affairs has undertaken extensive research on so-called ‘sock puppets’, exposing the practice of taxpayers’ money given to pressure groups being diverted to fund lobbying rather than the good causes or public services.

A new clause to be inserted into all new and renewed grant agreements will make sure that taxpayer funds are spent on improving people’s lives and good causes, rather than lobbying for new regulation or using taxpayers’ money to lobby for more government funding.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... agreements

Jean Marie Le Pen fined €30,000 for Holocaust remarks

Jean-Marie Le Pen has been fined €30,000 (£24,000) after being convicted of denying crimes against humanity.

The former French far-right leader was fined in a court in Paris on Wednesday for repeating remarks he made about the Holocaust.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 71241.html

you're not allowed to pray in public places because that's simply not what they're meant for. What would you think if every day a thousand muslims were to come pray at the Tiananmen square 3x a day. If they want to pray, they should go to their mosques or go pray at home.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=217863#p4806307

[Symmetry]

The NUS isn't a state body. You really have no clue at all about the British government, do you?

Seriously, reading your posts on politics is like going to the circus.

Just when you think there can't be another clown in the car...

[mrswdk]

The NUS isn't a state body. You really have no clue at all about the British government, do you?

Herp a derp. I never said the NUS is a state body. I posted that story because it evidences popular opinion in the UK. This thread is just as much about the attitudes of European societies in general as it is about European governments' positions.

Just to clear up any lingering confusion you may have about the rest of my sources: I also do not consider waauw to be a Belgian state body.

[Symmetry]

The NUS isn't a state body. You really have no clue at all about the British government, do you?

.

Fixed

[tkr4lf]

Why does that pic give me a boner?

I'm so confused right now.

[Symmetry]

Why does that pic give me a boner?

I'm so confused right now.

A massive foot fetish?

[mrswdk]

The NUS isn't a state body. You really have no clue at all about the British government, do you?

.

Fixed

It's perfectly understandable that you have no desire to have a serious discussion about the UK, given how horribly you embarrassed yourself while talking about the British's government's stance on the EU referendum.

[Symmetry]

The NUS isn't a state body. You really have no clue at all about the British government, do you?

.

Fixed

It's perfectly understandable that you have no desire to have a serious discussion about the UK, given how horribly you embarrassed yourself while talking about the British's government's stance on the EU referendum.

"British's government'"- dear lord, you can't even spell it.

[mrswdk]

And now so unable to address any of the substance that you've had to resort to pointing out typos. Yet more evidence that British universities deserved to have their public funding cut back in 2012.

I personally welcome the UK government's move to withhold funding from scientists who would use that funding to lobby the government, and British students' declaration that destabilizing views should not be nurtured. This at the same time as Germany has agreed to open up legal proceedings against a blogger who sought to undermine the authority of the Turkish state, and with other European states taking ever stronger measures to combat the voices of dissent who seek to usurp national solidarity.

The EU is increasingly learning to stand on its own two feet and resist the urge to ape American dogma and ideological fundamentalism. Good for you, Europe!

[Symmetry]

And now so unable to address any of the substance that you've had to resort to pointing out typos. Yet more evidence that British universities deserved to have there public funding cut back in 2012.

I personally welcome the UK government's move to withhold funding from scientists who would use that funding to lobby the government, and British's students' declaration that detabilizing views should not be nurtured. This at the same time as Germany has agreed to open up legal proceedings against a blogger who sought to undermine the authority of the Turkish state, and with other European states taking ever stronger measures to combat the voices of dissent who seek to useup national solidarity.

The Rebel Alliance is increasingly learning to stand on its own two feet and resist the urge to ape American dogma and ideological fundamentalism. Good for you, Europe!

I've added five typos to your post. Can you find them?

The game is afoot...

[waauw]

And now so unable to address any of the substance that you've had to resort to pointing out typos. Yet more evidence that British universities deserved to have their public funding cut back in 2012.

I personally welcome the UK government's move to withhold funding from scientists who would use that funding to lobby the government, and British students' declaration that destabilizing views should not be nurtured. This at the same time as Germany has agreed to open up legal proceedings against a blogger who sought to undermine the authority of the Turkish state, and with other European states taking ever stronger measures to combat the voices of dissent who seek to usurp national solidarity.

The EU is increasingly learning to stand on its own two feet and resist the urge to ape American dogma and ideological fundamentalism. Good for you, Europe!

The German decision is immensily unpopular accross the continent. But hell at least one thing is getting accomplished, Erdogan is making more enemies than friends these days. Soon he'll realize what happens if he estranges himself from both Russia and NATO. Erdogan is the biggest cancer on two continents.

[Kevi]

Spain has recently been hit by the gagging laws.

http://www.thelocal.es/20150701/the-ten-most-repressive-aspects-of-spains-new-gag-law

[Keefie]

God help us in the UK if the National Union of Students now represents popular opinion.

Mrs you do come out with some drivel.

[mrswdk]

And now so unable to address any of the substance that you've had to resort to pointing out typos. Yet more evidence that British universities deserved to have their public funding cut back in 2012.

I personally welcome the UK government's move to withhold funding from scientists who would use that funding to lobby the government, and British students' declaration that destabilizing views should not be nurtured. This at the same time as Germany has agreed to open up legal proceedings against a blogger who sought to undermine the authority of the Turkish state, and with other European states taking ever stronger measures to combat the voices of dissent who seek to usurp national solidarity.

The EU is increasingly learning to stand on its own two feet and resist the urge to ape American dogma and ideological fundamentalism. Good for you, Europe!

The German decision is immensily unpopular accross the continent. But hell at least one thing is getting accomplished, Erdogan is making more enemies than friends these days. Soon he'll realize what happens if he estranges himself from both Russia and NATO. Erdogan is the biggest cancer on two continents.

On the contrary - Germany's willingness to facilitate this prosecution would suggest that Erdogan is actually doing a decent job of making friends with one of NATO's most influential members.

[Bernie Sanders]

To compare Europe's constraint on speech to China is laughable.

[mrswdk]

There are differences between European countries, and between European countries and non-European countries, in their classification of what constitutes harmful or destabilizing speech, and therefore the ways in which they control speech, but all share with China, Russia and the majority of other countries a rejection of the American dogma that any and all speech must always be allowed.

Europe is increasingly abandoning Washington's evangelism in favor of Beijing's more nuanced approach to global governance. I guess they've finally become tired of having a shrill fundamentalist nation telling them what to do all the time.

[AndyDufresne]

So far in this topic, Mrswdk I think has accrued 250 cents of Renminbi. Sky's the limit though!


--Andy

[mrswdk]

Spain has recently been hit by the gagging laws.

http://www.thelocal.es/20150701/the-ten-most-repressive-aspects-of-spains-new-gag-law

Some pretty good rules in there, and an excellent example of OP.

[Dukasaur]

And now so unable to address any of the substance that you've had to resort to pointing out typos. Yet more evidence that British universities deserved to have their public funding cut back in 2012.

I personally welcome the UK government's move to withhold funding from scientists who would use that funding to lobby the government, and British students' declaration that destabilizing views should not be nurtured. This at the same time as Germany has agreed to open up legal proceedings against a blogger who sought to undermine the authority of the Turkish state, and with other European states taking ever stronger measures to combat the voices of dissent who seek to usurp national solidarity.

The EU is increasingly learning to stand on its own two feet and resist the urge to ape American dogma and ideological fundamentalism. Good for you, Europe!

Liberal democracy is a European invention. The Americans learned it from us, although they may have created their own unique flavour of it. Free speech in Europe certainly isn't something imported from the U.S.

It is a source of great pride that Europeans have for the most part stuck to their ideals despite never-ending invasions from abroad and terrorist threats from within. Even when plunged into authoritarian darkness through events like the World Wars, Europe rebounded and came out the other side, only a few short years after each such event, as liberal as before.

It's unfortunate that authoritarian influences are on the rise in Europe, but this too shall pass.

[waauw]

I think we can pretty much agree that there's a degree to freedom of speech:

USA----many european countries, not all----------China-----------North-Korea

10 countries with most freedom of speech:

• 1)New zealand
• 2)Australia
• 3)UK
• 4)Japan
• 5)USA
• 6)Estonia
• 7)Portugal
• 8)Uruguay
• 9)Chile
• 10)Jamaica

Now I can't find a list of the countries with the least freedom of speech, but I do remember reading it in some article. I don't remember all the countries but I know China is not in the top 10 but countries like Turkey, Cuba, Belarus and North-Korea are.

[mrswdk]

It is a source of great pride that Europeans have for the most part stuck to their ideals despite never-ending invasions from abroad and terrorist threats from within. Even when plunged into authoritarian darkness through events like the World Wars, Europe rebounded and came out the other side, only a few short years after each such event, as liberal as before.

No one in Europe is saying that people should not be allowed their own opinion, or that it is not okay for someone to be able to express themselves. All people are saying, as they have always done, is that some views and some thoughts should not be allowed to roam society with gay abandon. That is why the governments of the UK, France, Germany, Spain, Netherlands, China etc., backed by their people, place certain reasonable constraints in place. The voices of instability and insurrection should be kept in check. This is something people in almost the entire world agree upon.

It's for exactly the same reasons that almost all states do not allow their citizenry to roam the streets armed with guns, using them to take deadly force against each other. 'Freedom' is a dogma in America, but something to be applied with practical and sensible limits in almost every other country.

Different countries draw the lines in different places, as waauw points out. But what they all have in common is knowing that a line needs to be drawn. The cartoon propaganda and divisions of the Cold War era are dead - long live the new world!

[TA1LGUNN3R]

The voices of instability and insurrection should be kept in check. This is something people in almost the entire world agree upon.

Lol.

-TG

[mrswdk]

The voices of instability and insurrection should be kept in check. This is something people in almost the entire world agree upon.

Lol.

-TG

WAT

If you're referencing my recent ban then to that I say that I appreciate that there is a need for the fora to be moderated, even if I disagree with the sexist approach Team CC takes towards the human body.

[DoomYoshi]

It is a source of great pride that Europeans have for the most part stuck to their ideals despite never-ending invasions from abroad and terrorist threats from within. Even when plunged into authoritarian darkness through events like the World Wars, Europe rebounded and came out the other side, only a few short years after each such event, as liberal as before.

No one in Europe is saying that people should not be allowed their own opinion, or that it is not okay for someone to be able to express themselves. All people are saying, as they have always done, is that some views and some thoughts should not be allowed to roam society with gay abandon. That is why the governments of the UK, France, Germany, Spain, Netherlands, China etc., backed by their people, place certain reasonable constraints in place. The voices of instability and insurrection should be kept in check. This is something people in almost the entire world agree upon.

It's for exactly the same reasons that almost all states do not allow their citizenry to roam the streets armed with guns, using them to take deadly force against each other. 'Freedom' is a dogma in America, but something to be applied with practical and sensible limits in almost every other country.

Different countries draw the lines in different places, as waauw points out. But what they all have in common is knowing that a line needs to be drawn. The cartoon propaganda and divisions of the Cold War era are dead - long live the new world!

The UK draws the line by not allowing legitimate science.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm

David Nutt was fired for suggesting alcohol might not be good for people.

[mrswdk]

David Nutt is still allowed to conduct and publish that sort of research (and did so not long after being removed from his government post).

It's just a question of whether or not it is conducive to the public good to have senior government servants and ministers openly opposing government policy.