Drunk on responsibility

[thegreekdog]

A few months ago John Kascich (was running for president, not any more) made a comment about how he would say girls shouldn't go to fraternity parties if they didn't want to get raped (I'm paraphrasing). People flipped the f*ck out. I told my wife that I will absolutely tell my daughter not to get drunk at fraternity parties and that advice has nothing to do with women's rights or whether a guy should take responsibility for his illegal actions (while drunk).

It depends on the context in which he said it. 'Don't get drunk in a bar then walk home alone' is sensible advice for your daughter before she goes for a night out, but if it's your first response to a story about a drunk girl getting raped then that conveys the message that responsibility/blame/whatever lies primarily with the girl and not the girl's attacker.

Like, when your friend tells you he got mugged on the way home from work you'd probably say 'ah, that sucks, some people are such meanies, blah blah blah', not ask if they'd taken care to keep all their valuables hidden away.

The second thing I would ask is "Where were you?" which is roughly equivalent to asking "Why the f*ck were you in [insert dangerous place]?"

Way to butcher the quotes, bro.

Didn't you read my sidebar?

(sidebar - it takes A LOT of booze to get me even close to drunk... I've had 8 beers in the last four hours tonight)

[thegreekdog]

Yes, I can agree with that. If you're drinking so much that you're blacking out, bad things can happen. Whether you're putting yourself in a position where someone can do something bad to you, or putting yourself in a position that you can accidentally cause yourself harm, you're over doing it, and do bear some responsibility. Even if you aren't injured, you're still doing yourself some harm by drinking to excess. So yes, I see your point, just because someone else does you harm, doesn't eliminate your own responsibility. Fair enough, and logical enough.

Symmetry said (I'm paraphrasing) that if you go to sleep and someone murders you, you are responsible because you fell asleep.

[Serbia]

Yes, I can agree with that. If you're drinking so much that you're blacking out, bad things can happen. Whether you're putting yourself in a position where someone can do something bad to you, or putting yourself in a position that you can accidentally cause yourself harm, you're over doing it, and do bear some responsibility. Even if you aren't injured, you're still doing yourself some harm by drinking to excess. So yes, I see your point, just because someone else does you harm, doesn't eliminate your own responsibility. Fair enough, and logical enough.

Symmetry said (I'm paraphrasing) that if you go to sleep and someone murders you, you are responsible because you fell asleep.

That sounds like some nonsense he'd spew. Thanks for the clarification!

[mrswdk]

@tgd eight 33cl bottles of Coors Lite?

[mandalorian2298]

My clarification was better...

[Serbia]

My clarification was better...

Yours was more constructive, I'll give you that!

[thegreekdog]

@tgd eight 33cl bottles of Coors Lite?

You'll have to define "33cl" and "Coors Lite." I believe I was drinking Yards Brawler.

Sidebar #2 - I went on a brewery tour of Dogfishead a few years ago. The tour guide was carrying around a glass of water. At one point, he forgot his water and said "Whoops, almost forgot my Coors Light." Beer snob laughter ensued.

[thegreekdog]

Yes, I can agree with that. If you're drinking so much that you're blacking out, bad things can happen. Whether you're putting yourself in a position where someone can do something bad to you, or putting yourself in a position that you can accidentally cause yourself harm, you're over doing it, and do bear some responsibility. Even if you aren't injured, you're still doing yourself some harm by drinking to excess. So yes, I see your point, just because someone else does you harm, doesn't eliminate your own responsibility. Fair enough, and logical enough.

Symmetry said (I'm paraphrasing) that if you go to sleep and someone murders you, you are responsible because you fell asleep.

That sounds like some nonsense he'd spew. Thanks for the clarification!

I think he doesn't understand the discussion. If you guys were advocating a not guilty verdict for the guy who does the raping, symmetry would have a valid point. But since you're not, he's just spewing nonsense.

[mandalorian2298]

Yes, I can agree with that. If you're drinking so much that you're blacking out, bad things can happen. Whether you're putting yourself in a position where someone can do something bad to you, or putting yourself in a position that you can accidentally cause yourself harm, you're over doing it, and do bear some responsibility. Even if you aren't injured, you're still doing yourself some harm by drinking to excess. So yes, I see your point, just because someone else does you harm, doesn't eliminate your own responsibility. Fair enough, and logical enough.

Symmetry said (I'm paraphrasing) that if you go to sleep and someone murders you, you are responsible because you fell asleep.

That sounds like some nonsense he'd spew. Thanks for the clarification!

I think he doesn't understand the discussion. If you guys were advocating a not guilty verdict for the guy who does the raping, symmetry would have a valid point. But since you're not, he's just spewing nonsense.

You hit the nail on the head there. That is exactly the problem with the discussion about this and other sensitive topics: people don't pay any attention what the other person is saying, they just deduce the general theme and then belt out their one-size-fits-all opinion. There are guys like Sym who will yell "It's not the victims fault" without bothering to learn what it is that the victim is being accused of and, on the flip side, there are guys who are going to blame every rape on how women dress - even if the victim happens to be a man.

[Symmetry]

Yes, I can agree with that. If you're drinking so much that you're blacking out, bad things can happen. Whether you're putting yourself in a position where someone can do something bad to you, or putting yourself in a position that you can accidentally cause yourself harm, you're over doing it, and do bear some responsibility. Even if you aren't injured, you're still doing yourself some harm by drinking to excess. So yes, I see your point, just because someone else does you harm, doesn't eliminate your own responsibility. Fair enough, and logical enough.

Symmetry said (I'm paraphrasing) that if you go to sleep and someone murders you, you are responsible because you fell asleep.

That sounds like some nonsense he'd spew. Thanks for the clarification!

I think he doesn't understand the discussion. If you guys were advocating a not guilty verdict for the guy who does the raping, symmetry would have a valid point. But since you're not, he's just spewing nonsense.

You hit the nail on the head there. That is exactly the problem with the discussion about this and other sensitive topics: people don't pay any attention what the other person is saying, they just deduce the general theme and then belt out their one-size-fits-all opinion. There are guys like Sym who will yell "It's not the victims fault" without bothering to learn what it is that the victim is being accused of and, on the flip side, there are guys who are going to blame every rape on how women dress - even if the victim happens to be a man.

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you feel that people don't take the time to look at other peoples' arguments fairly, while attacking me in a series of quotes lacking any of my arguments.

I hope you see the problem that you've gotten yourself in to here. An echo chamber can be fun, but you've bought in to a strawman argument. Nothing quoted is from me.

If that's how you want to roll, carry on, but don't pretend you're doing anything more than using me as a bogeyman.

[Serbia]

So, if I'm understanding you correctly

I'm going to stop you right there. You are not understanding him, or anyone else in this thread, correctly.

No real reason to carry on, so I'll leave it at that.

[notyou2]

Carry on.

[Bernie Sanders]

Please move on, nothing to see here.

[Symmetry]

So, if I'm understanding you correctly

I'm going to stop you right there. You are not understanding him, or anyone else in this thread, correctly.

No real reason to carry on, so I'll leave it at that.

Ah, the irony.