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Missouri lowers minamam wage????

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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:47 pm

Woodruff wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
Woodruff wrote:I haven't read the entire thread...I tried, but there was just too much misinformation and outright bullshit. So perhaps what I'm about to say has already been said, I don't know. But that's never stopped me before, so...

The real "job creators" are not the businessmen, not even those who start up businesses. The real job creators are the purchasers, and in particular the poor.
I hear the shrieks already, but allow me to explain.

If a man starts a business selling widgets, and hires employees to make and sell those widgets, but customers don't come to his business in enough numbers to sustain it, that only very temporarily creates any jobs at all. Therefore, the strength of job creation lies with those customers.

Now, why would I suggest that it is the poor who are at most the job creators? Because they put the highest percentage of their income back into the economy. The rich are saving...in fact, statistics say that the rich are saving a lot, through various means. The middle class is sadly moving toward the poor in this regard, as saving within the middle class is starting to become a by-gone thing, so I don't mind including them within that grouping of job creators. But it is those who are returning their income back into the economy who are the job creators.

Therefore, if you want to boost the economy, you do it through the poor (why yes, that might also mean welfare).

All of that trickle-down crap just doesn't reflect the reality. And for what it's worth, I like capitalism. I think it's the best system available for MOST situations.


Giving money to the poor exacerbates the problem of people making and selling widgets. There is too much useless crap.


If someone wants a widget and is willing to pay money for that widget, then clearly that widget is NOT, by definition, useless.

Try again.


Even if the purchaser in acting against their best interests? or in their worst interests?
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby Woodruff on Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:06 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
Woodruff wrote:I haven't read the entire thread...I tried, but there was just too much misinformation and outright bullshit. So perhaps what I'm about to say has already been said, I don't know. But that's never stopped me before, so...

The real "job creators" are not the businessmen, not even those who start up businesses. The real job creators are the purchasers, and in particular the poor.
I hear the shrieks already, but allow me to explain.

If a man starts a business selling widgets, and hires employees to make and sell those widgets, but customers don't come to his business in enough numbers to sustain it, that only very temporarily creates any jobs at all. Therefore, the strength of job creation lies with those customers.

Now, why would I suggest that it is the poor who are at most the job creators? Because they put the highest percentage of their income back into the economy. The rich are saving...in fact, statistics say that the rich are saving a lot, through various means. The middle class is sadly moving toward the poor in this regard, as saving within the middle class is starting to become a by-gone thing, so I don't mind including them within that grouping of job creators. But it is those who are returning their income back into the economy who are the job creators.

Therefore, if you want to boost the economy, you do it through the poor (why yes, that might also mean welfare).

All of that trickle-down crap just doesn't reflect the reality. And for what it's worth, I like capitalism. I think it's the best system available for MOST situations.


Giving money to the poor exacerbates the problem of people making and selling widgets. There is too much useless crap.


If someone wants a widget and is willing to pay money for that widget, then clearly that widget is NOT, by definition, useless.

Try again.


Even if the purchaser in acting against their best interests? or in their worst interests?


To the engine of the economy, that is irrelevant, isn't it? It keeps the wheels turning. I'm not talking about ethics or about what is
best for individuals...I'm talking about what is best for the economy and what produces the most jobs.
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby Symmetry on Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:37 pm

Woodruff wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
Woodruff wrote:I haven't read the entire thread...I tried, but there was just too much misinformation and outright bullshit. So perhaps what I'm about to say has already been said, I don't know. But that's never stopped me before, so...

The real "job creators" are not the businessmen, not even those who start up businesses. The real job creators are the purchasers, and in particular the poor.
I hear the shrieks already, but allow me to explain.

If a man starts a business selling widgets, and hires employees to make and sell those widgets, but customers don't come to his business in enough numbers to sustain it, that only very temporarily creates any jobs at all. Therefore, the strength of job creation lies with those customers.

Now, why would I suggest that it is the poor who are at most the job creators? Because they put the highest percentage of their income back into the economy. The rich are saving...in fact, statistics say that the rich are saving a lot, through various means. The middle class is sadly moving toward the poor in this regard, as saving within the middle class is starting to become a by-gone thing, so I don't mind including them within that grouping of job creators. But it is those who are returning their income back into the economy who are the job creators.

Therefore, if you want to boost the economy, you do it through the poor (why yes, that might also mean welfare).

All of that trickle-down crap just doesn't reflect the reality. And for what it's worth, I like capitalism. I think it's the best system available for MOST situations.


Giving money to the poor exacerbates the problem of people making and selling widgets. There is too much useless crap.


If someone wants a widget and is willing to pay money for that widget, then clearly that widget is NOT, by definition, useless.

Try again.


Even if the purchaser in acting against their best interests? or in their worst interests?


To the engine of the economy, that is irrelevant, isn't it? It keeps the wheels turning. I'm not talking about ethics or about what is
best for individuals...I'm talking about what is best for the economy and what produces the most jobs.


War?
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby riskllama on Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:38 pm

lol, symmetry wins this thread.
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby Thorthoth on Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:17 pm

riskllama wrote:lol, symmetry wins this thread.

You are judge of nothing, llamsagna.
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby Bernie Sanders on Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:06 pm

riskllama wrote:lol, symmetry wins this thread.


Agreed Symm is the winner.
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby Thorthoth on Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:07 pm

Bernie Sanders wrote:
riskllama wrote:lol, symmetry wins this thread.


Agreed Symm is the winner.

Sure, the historical footnote also-ran says so.
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby jusplay4fun on Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:23 pm

Ignore the fact that war destroys a country, lives, homes, buildings, and the economy.

Reminds me of the phrase "we had to destroy the village in order to save it."

Symmetry wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
Woodruff wrote:I haven't read the entire thread...I tried, but there was just too much misinformation and outright bullshit. So perhaps what I'm about to say has already been said, I don't know. But that's never stopped me before, so...

The real "job creators" are not the businessmen, not even those who start up businesses. The real job creators are the purchasers, and in particular the poor.
I hear the shrieks already, but allow me to explain.

If a man starts a business selling widgets, and hires employees to make and sell those widgets, but customers don't come to his business in enough numbers to sustain it, that only very temporarily creates any jobs at all. Therefore, the strength of job creation lies with those customers.

Now, why would I suggest that it is the poor who are at most the job creators? Because they put the highest percentage of their income back into the economy. The rich are saving...in fact, statistics say that the rich are saving a lot, through various means. The middle class is sadly moving toward the poor in this regard, as saving within the middle class is starting to become a by-gone thing, so I don't mind including them within that grouping of job creators. But it is those who are returning their income back into the economy who are the job creators.

Therefore, if you want to boost the economy, you do it through the poor (why yes, that might also mean welfare).

All of that trickle-down crap just doesn't reflect the reality. And for what it's worth, I like capitalism. I think it's the best system available for MOST situations.


Giving money to the poor exacerbates the problem of people making and selling widgets. There is too much useless crap.


If someone wants a widget and is willing to pay money for that widget, then clearly that widget is NOT, by definition, useless.

Try again.


Even if the purchaser in acting against their best interests? or in their worst interests?


To the engine of the economy, that is irrelevant, isn't it? It keeps the wheels turning. I'm not talking about ethics or about what is
best for individuals...I'm talking about what is best for the economy and what produces the most jobs.


War?
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby riskllama on Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:54 pm

dude, war is fuckin' great for business - as long as it's not your economy & infrastructure that are getting bombed to shit. 'murica learned this lesson during WWI, that's why we had WWII, korea, vietnam, etc... 8-)
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby DoomYoshi on Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:35 am

Woodruff wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
Woodruff wrote:I haven't read the entire thread...I tried, but there was just too much misinformation and outright bullshit. So perhaps what I'm about to say has already been said, I don't know. But that's never stopped me before, so...

The real "job creators" are not the businessmen, not even those who start up businesses. The real job creators are the purchasers, and in particular the poor.
I hear the shrieks already, but allow me to explain.

If a man starts a business selling widgets, and hires employees to make and sell those widgets, but customers don't come to his business in enough numbers to sustain it, that only very temporarily creates any jobs at all. Therefore, the strength of job creation lies with those customers.

Now, why would I suggest that it is the poor who are at most the job creators? Because they put the highest percentage of their income back into the economy. The rich are saving...in fact, statistics say that the rich are saving a lot, through various means. The middle class is sadly moving toward the poor in this regard, as saving within the middle class is starting to become a by-gone thing, so I don't mind including them within that grouping of job creators. But it is those who are returning their income back into the economy who are the job creators.

Therefore, if you want to boost the economy, you do it through the poor (why yes, that might also mean welfare).

All of that trickle-down crap just doesn't reflect the reality. And for what it's worth, I like capitalism. I think it's the best system available for MOST situations.


Giving money to the poor exacerbates the problem of people making and selling widgets. There is too much useless crap.


If someone wants a widget and is willing to pay money for that widget, then clearly that widget is NOT, by definition, useless.

Try again.


Even if the purchaser in acting against their best interests? or in their worst interests?


To the engine of the economy, that is irrelevant, isn't it? It keeps the wheels turning. I'm not talking about ethics or about what is
best for individuals...I'm talking about what is best for the economy and what produces the most jobs.


Keeping the economy turning is a pointless goal. People are working useless jobs creating stuff that other people don't need so that they can afford to buy stuff they don't need. Global Economic Collapse is the only thing that can be considered best.
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby waauw on Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:43 pm

riskllama wrote:dude, war is fuckin' great for business - as long as it's not your economy & infrastructure that are getting bombed to shit. 'murica learned this lesson during WWI, that's why we had WWII, korea, vietnam, etc... 8-)


You are very grim person Bugsy. Do you also shove carrots up people's asses to improve your happiness.
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby riskllama on Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:22 pm

waauw wrote:
riskllama wrote:dude, war is fuckin' great for business - as long as it's not your economy & infrastructure that are getting bombed to shit. 'murica learned this lesson during WWI, that's why we had WWII, korea, vietnam, etc... 8-)


You are very grim person Bugsy. Do you also shove carrots up people's asses to improve your happiness.

hard & joyless like Russian turnip, yes. not a huge fan of anal play, per se - but when done correctly, it can be a fairly zesty enterprise. did you not agree w/my assessment regarding the MIC?
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby jusplay4fun on Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:31 pm

exactly....it has been said that WWII is why USA ('murica) got out of the Great Depression, NOT what FDR did......

And of course, US industrial might and production make a HUGE difference in WWII. AND no one bombed us is WWII or Korean or Viet Nam "struggles." Will the same be true of we go to war again? Why do you think North Korea leaders want ICBM and nuclear weapons?

JP4F

riskllama wrote:dude, war is fuckin' great for business - as long as it's not your economy & infrastructure that are getting bombed to shit. 'murica learned this lesson during WWI, that's why we had WWII, korea, vietnam, etc... 8-)
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby Thorthoth on Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:34 pm

jusplay4fun wrote:exactly....it has been said that WWII is why USA ('murica) got out of the Great Depression, NOT what FDR did......

And of course, US industrial might and production make a HUGE difference in WWII. AND no one bombed us is WWII or Korean or Viet Nam "struggles." Will the same be true of we go to war again? Why do you think North Korea leaders want ICBM and nuclear weapons?

JP4F

riskllama wrote:dude, war is fuckin' great for business - as long as it's not your economy & infrastructure that are getting bombed to shit. 'murica learned this lesson during WWI, that's why we had WWII, korea, vietnam, etc... 8-)


llamo is a Canadian drug addict... What would he even know about such things?
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby riskllama on Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:42 pm

Thorthoth wrote:
jusplay4fun wrote:exactly....it has been said that WWII is why USA ('murica) got out of the Great Depression, NOT what FDR did......

And of course, US industrial might and production make a HUGE difference in WWII. AND no one bombed us is WWII or Korean or Viet Nam "struggles." Will the same be true of we go to war again? Why do you think North Korea leaders want ICBM and nuclear weapons?

JP4F

riskllama wrote:dude, war is fuckin' great for business - as long as it's not your economy & infrastructure that are getting bombed to shit. 'murica learned this lesson during WWI, that's why we had WWII, korea, vietnam, etc... 8-)


llamo is a Canadian drug addict... What would he even know about such things?

this is defamation.
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby Bernie Sanders on Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:56 am

jusplay4fun wrote:exactly....it has been said that WWII is why USA ('murica) got out of the Great Depression, NOT what FDR did......

And of course, US industrial might and production make a HUGE difference in WWII. AND no one bombed us is WWII or Korean or Viet Nam "struggles." Will the same be true of we go to war again? Why do you think North Korea leaders want ICBM and nuclear weapons?

JP4F

riskllama wrote:dude, war is fuckin' great for business - as long as it's not your economy & infrastructure that are getting bombed to shit. 'murica learned this lesson during WWI, that's why we had WWII, korea, vietnam, etc... 8-)



It was not the war that drove the economy, it was all that spending and borrowing. Military spending per se is a huge waste of money as it produces nothing for long term growth.

President Eisenhower facing a huge deficit from World War II created a huge infrastructure program which in fact paid for itself, even though it required lots of spending. For every dollar spent on infrastructure, 3 dollars is returned to the economy. The deficit was being paid, jobs increased and so was the pay for ordinary workers.

That is why the Republicans dragged their feet about a huge infrastructure program that the Obama administration wanted. No need to help the economy, as that would hurt Republican chances at the next Congressional election.

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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby jusplay4fun on Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:37 am

As usual, Bernie's "analysis" is shallow, confusing, confused, and incorrect.

The war was financed via spending and borrowing. If there were NO war, the American people would not have allowed that borrowing and deficits to fund the WAR. Bernie, ever hear of "WAR Bonds"? Apparently NOT. Put the horse in front of the cart, Bernie.

Eisenhower's infrastructure program? Are you referring to the interstate highway system? Yes, it is a good investment, if that is what you mean, but your vague reference requires clarification.

Bernie, Please think a bit more before writing.

As far as the gridlock in Congress, I refer you to Sen. McCain's speech today to and in the Senate. There is too much discord and not enough attempt to serve the nation and to do what is best for 'mericah. PERIOD.

JP4F

Bernie Sanders wrote:
jusplay4fun wrote:exactly....it has been said that WWII is why USA ('murica) got out of the Great Depression, NOT what FDR did......

And of course, US industrial might and production make a HUGE difference in WWII. AND no one bombed us is WWII or Korean or Viet Nam "struggles." Will the same be true of we go to war again? Why do you think North Korea leaders want ICBM and nuclear weapons?

JP4F

riskllama wrote:dude, war is fuckin' great for business - as long as it's not your economy & infrastructure that are getting bombed to shit. 'murica learned this lesson during WWI, that's why we had WWII, korea, vietnam, etc... 8-)



It was not the war that drove the economy, it was all that spending and borrowing. Military spending per se is a huge waste of money as it produces nothing for long term growth.

President Eisenhower facing a huge deficit from World War II created a huge infrastructure program which in fact paid for itself, even though it required lots of spending. For every dollar spent on infrastructure, 3 dollars is returned to the economy. The deficit was being paid, jobs increased and so was the pay for ordinary workers.

That is why the Republicans dragged their feet about a huge infrastructure program that the Obama administration wanted. No need to help the economy, as that would hurt Republican chances at the next Congressional election.

Party before Country!
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby Bernie Sanders on Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:34 am

jusplay4fun wrote:As usual, Bernie's "analysis" is shallow, confusing, confused, and incorrect.

The war was financed via spending and borrowing. If there were NO war, the American people would not have allowed that borrowing and deficits to fund the WAR. Bernie, ever hear of "WAR Bonds"? Apparently NOT. Put the horse in front of the cart, Bernie.

Eisenhower's infrastructure program? Are you referring to the interstate highway system? Yes, it is a good investment, if that is what you mean, but your vague reference requires clarification.

Bernie, Please think a bit more before writing.

As far as the gridlock in Congress, I refer you to Sen. McCain's speech today to and in the Senate. There is too much discord and not enough attempt to serve the nation and to do what is best for 'mericah. PERIOD.

JP4F

Bernie Sanders wrote:
jusplay4fun wrote:exactly....it has been said that WWII is why USA ('murica) got out of the Great Depression, NOT what FDR did......

And of course, US industrial might and production make a HUGE difference in WWII. AND no one bombed us is WWII or Korean or Viet Nam "struggles." Will the same be true of we go to war again? Why do you think North Korea leaders want ICBM and nuclear weapons?

JP4F

riskllama wrote:dude, war is fuckin' great for business - as long as it's not your economy & infrastructure that are getting bombed to shit. 'murica learned this lesson during WWI, that's why we had WWII, korea, vietnam, etc... 8-)



It was not the war that drove the economy, it was all that spending and borrowing. Military spending per se is a huge waste of money as it produces nothing for long term growth.

President Eisenhower facing a huge deficit from World War II created a huge infrastructure program which in fact paid for itself, even though it required lots of spending. For every dollar spent on infrastructure, 3 dollars is returned to the economy. The deficit was being paid, jobs increased and so was the pay for ordinary workers.

That is why the Republicans dragged their feet about a huge infrastructure program that the Obama administration wanted. No need to help the economy, as that would hurt Republican chances at the next Congressional election.

Party before Country!


Stop being silly. Your inability to think outside the box is apparent.

Geeezes, it was the Republicans who used tactics [dragging their feet] during the Obama administration to prevent an upswing in employment. Sen. McCain now proposes what??? The Republicans have carried out secret meetings without Democrats on this healthcare issue. The GOP slogan: Party before Country! Trump is leading the GOP into the wasteland.

Go pound sand.
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby jusplay4fun on Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:34 am

Bernie,

That is your BEST response? My statements still stand, because you refuse to rebut ANY of them. You lost that argument, plain and simple. And that is your analysis, too, plain and simple AND WRONG.

You are one of those lambastic loudmouths that bring our nation DOWN. Go hide into your silo.

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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby jusplay4fun on Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:51 am

bernie,

it is MINIMUM wage, not minumum wage. Plain and simple. You are wrong, again.

You failed to fix your error when this was pointed out much earlier. You are wrong, again.

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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby Bernie Sanders on Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:03 am

What? Put the joint down and clear your head before you post.

Why so angry?
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby mrswdk on Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:55 am

jusplay4fun wrote:it is MINIMUM wage, not minumum wage. Plain and simple. You are wrong


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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby jusplay4fun on Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:20 pm

I am not angry and I do not smoke. PERIOD.

Are you going to give a reasonable rebuttal to even ONE of my points or will you simply blow more smoke? Again, you fail to address any of the issues that I present and offer shallow, insipid responses that indicates lack of clear thougth, a lack of any lucid analysis, and definitely a n absence of any cogent arguments.

Address the issues, refute my arguments, and stop avoiding any real thought, bernie. You fail as a debater. Period.

JP4F

Bernie Sanders wrote:What? Put the joint down and clear your head before you post.

Why so angry?
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby Symmetry on Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:39 pm

Well, this is just a flame thread now.
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
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Re: Missouri lowers minumum wage????

Postby Thorthoth on Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:48 pm

Symmetry wrote:Well, this is just a flame thread now.

They're ALL flame threads, dumbass.
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