Conquer Club

Just now the dutch cabinet expanded the people's rights for self-determination, beating the Christian Union in a struggle for euthanasia for those who are tired of life. This was another victory of liberalism over the outdated values of religious organizations.

Pro but with some exceptions, such as healthy people who are in financial debt. Also banned are peng tings rating 7/10 or above for sex appeal.

Would have eased much of our traffic woes after the Don was elected....

waauw wrote:Just now the dutch cabinet expanded the people's rights for self-determination, beating the Christian Union in a struggle for euthanasia for those who are tired of life. This was another victory of liberalism over the outdated values of religious organizations.

I am generally Pro but with considerable reservations. I worry about abuses, such as:

• About political prisoners whose consent is faked by their government as a quick-and-easy form of assassination
• About elderly people who still have a decent quality of life but are starting to be dependent, being manipulated by their selfish children into taking the trip prematurely.
• About victims of medical malpractice, who had a curable medical condition that their doctor wrongfully assessed as incurable.

It's wrong to paint all opposition as religiously motivated. Maybe a lot of it is, but definitely not all. I don't know how carefully your country is crafting safeguards to prevent abuses like the ones I've listed above.

mrswdk wrote:Pro but with some exceptions, such as healthy people who are in financial debt.

You're truly a despicable example of the Idle Rich Class at its worst. You would really try to deny some poor bastard buried in crushing debt even the relief of suicide? I hope one day your daddy's trust fund gets defrauded and bankrupted and you get to experience the joys of poverty.

Zing! lol

And speaking of Youth in Asia....I always thot that would be a great name for a band of young kids from China....

I hate you all for nearly making me have an actual discussion here again.

I'm going to look for cat pictures or something now.

Dukasaur wrote:

mrswdk wrote:Pro but with some exceptions, such as healthy people who are in financial debt.

You're truly a despicable example of the Idle Rich Class at its worst. You would really try to deny some poor bastard buried in crushing debt even the relief of suicide? I hope one day your daddy's trust fund gets defrauded and bankrupted and you get to experience the joys of poverty.

lol, count to 10 and try again bro.

I'm not saying people with debts should never ever be offered a way out. People currently can escape debts if they really need to, by declaring bankruptcy. One thing about bankruptcy, though, is that it comes with enough penalties to make it a last resort lifeline rather than an easy way out, which means that people won't rack up debts with a plan to just do so now then declare bankruptcy later and get off the hook. Stopping people with debts going for euthanasia would just be an extension of the current system: no consequence-free way out of huge debts if you've got yourself into them.

mrswdk wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

mrswdk wrote:Pro but with some exceptions, such as healthy people who are in financial debt.

You're truly a despicable example of the Idle Rich Class at its worst. You would really try to deny some poor bastard buried in crushing debt even the relief of suicide? I hope one day your daddy's trust fund gets defrauded and bankrupted and you get to experience the joys of poverty.

lol, count to 10 and try again bro.

I'm not saying people with debts should never ever be offered a way out. People currently can escape debts if they really need to, by declaring bankruptcy. One thing about bankruptcy, though, is that it comes with enough penalties to make it a last resort lifeline rather than an easy way out, which means that people won't rack up debts with a plan to just do so now then declare bankruptcy later and get off the hook. Stopping people with debts going for euthanasia would just be an extension of the current system: no consequence-free way out of huge debts if you've got yourself into them.

I think death is a pretty serious consequence in and of itself.

The kind of person who would think it's okay to rack up debts because they can later kill themselves to escape them is the kind of person who doesn't think death is something to be particularly avoided.

It's the same as the argument against the death penalty that says the death penalty is bad because without it crim crims know they'll have to live with the consequences of their crime crimes, rather than being able to do what they like and then just get executed.

Dukasaur wrote:

waauw wrote:Just now the dutch cabinet expanded the people's rights for self-determination, beating the Christian Union in a struggle for euthanasia for those who are tired of life. This was another victory of liberalism over the outdated values of religious organizations.

I am generally Pro but with considerable reservations. I worry about abuses, such as:

• About political prisoners whose consent is faked by their government as a quick-and-easy form of assassination
• About elderly people who still have a decent quality of life but are starting to be dependent, being manipulated by their selfish children into taking the trip prematurely.
• About victims of medical malpractice, who had a curable medical condition that their doctor wrongfully assessed as incurable.

Interesting. Yet, I remain pro-euthanasia despite these. With human nature every system will have its weaknesses and pitfalls. Better to implement and then heavily regulate, I think.

mrswdk wrote:The kind of person who would think it's okay to rack up debts because they can later kill themselves to escape them is the kind of person who doesn't think death is something to be particularly avoided.

It's also the kind of person who doesn't give a shit what the law says, and is going to kill themselves regardless of your opinion on kids in Asia.

I'm generally in favour- there are countries that have legalised euthanasia. Although I understand why people might be worried, the burden now rests on those who fear it to show that their fears of abuse are actually realised in places where euthanasia is legal.

It certainly seems like the places that have legalised it have adequate guidelines and safeguards in place to prevent abuse.

I guess my only concern over the issue is more about the doctors' roles in end of life care.

mookiemcgee wrote:

mrswdk wrote:The kind of person who would think it's okay to rack up debts because they can later kill themselves to escape them is the kind of person who doesn't think death is something to be particularly avoided.

It's also the kind of person who doesn't give a shit what the law says, and is going to kill themselves regardless of your opinion on kids in Asia.

Now THERE'S an answer I like

Symmetry wrote:I guess my only concern over the issue is more about the doctors' roles in end of life care.

You can suffer for the rest of your life and then die lonely, in pain and cold or you can take my convenient $20 000 quick-fix getout with a bunch of actors who will pretend to be your friends. Comes with a chance to win a free prize! Your choice though.

I'm just waiting for the time that Vanilla Sky becomes reality and I can just pay someone to plug me into a machine that beams a perfect life straight into my brain.

if you want to end your life who cares,no body has the right to tell you no,so im for it,if you are fed up with the word,and youo want to kill yourself do it

DoomYoshi wrote:

Symmetry wrote:I guess my only concern over the issue is more about the doctors' roles in end of life care.

You can suffer for the rest of your life and then die lonely, in pain and cold or you can take my convenient $20 000 quick-fix getout with a bunch of actors who will pretend to be your friends. Comes with a chance to win a free prize! Your choice though.

A cynical take on it- I know a few doctors and nurses who work in end of life palliative care. If euthanasia does come into law, it puts them in a difficult position. I'm generally in support of it being legal, but that doesn't mean it won't have negative consequences for the people who actually have to make the judgements and administer it.

The stigma that already surrounds palliative care can get pretty nasty- anyone remember the Republican party campaigning that it was "death panels"?

And the recent case in the UK of Charlie Gard?

That's just the kind of politicised nonsense about end of life care that exists within the current laws.