Conquer Club

20 dead, 20 more wounded. Guns. Murder Suicide. Texas. USA. Again.

My thoughts are with the victims.

My thoughts are with the NRA. They must be giving billions in political donations this year.

i remember reading somewheres not too long ago(most likely around the vegas shooting aftermath) that the NRA/gun lobby got a bill passed that basically forbids the fed. govt. from doing any studies about gun violence in the US. so yeah, this will most likely keep happening for the foreseeable future...

Hope all is ok for our TX posters and for those who have friends and relatives there.

Updated the death toll, though it might rise, youngest aged 5, and at there's at least one victim who was pregnant.

For anyone who wants to follow live updates from the UK-

The Guardian has a live feed:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2017/nov/06/texas-church-shooting-sutherland-springs-live-updates

Again folks- hope you and yours are well.

Where's Saxi on this one? too busy writing the next big distraction piece for the trump admin?

mookiemcgee wrote:Where's Saxi on this one? too busy writing the next big distraction piece for the trump admin?

Exactly what I was expecting. He'll probably come around with another morbid joke.

Man, all the crazies are coming out of the wood works. Disheartening that we have another deadly shooting shortly after Vegas.

Last time we had a terrorist attack in france, smart ass trump said that it wouldn t happen if our population had guns.
Looks like no american brings his gun to church, food for thought.

notyou2 wrote:My thoughts are with the NRA. They must be giving billions in political donations this year.

Stop trying to make this about guns.

mookiemcgee wrote:Where's Saxi on this one? too busy writing the next big distraction piece for the trump admin?

ITT mmcg claims that Trump colluded with the gunman.

betiko wrote:Last time we had a terrorist attack in france, smart ass trump said that it wouldn t happen if our population had guns.
Looks like no american brings his gun to church, food for thought.

Actually, the shooting was stopped when two passers-by saw what was happening and opened fire on the shooter with their own weapons. A gun battle then ensued between the shooter and community members. The shooter - under superior and unrelenting fire from citizens - fled and was pursued by local residents who forced his car off the road. The Texas Department of Public Safety has still yet to determine if the shooter committed suicide or died from being shot by community members.

This tragedy could have been much worse. If not for these two community members, Sutherland Springs could have turned into another Paris. But, fortunately, there is still only one Paris, Texas.

Also, it turns out the shooter was an atheist, which is probably why he targeted a church.

saxitoxin wrote:

betiko wrote:Last time we had a terrorist attack in france, smart ass trump said that it wouldn t happen if our population had guns.
Looks like no american brings his gun to church, food for thought.

Actually, the shooting was stopped when two passers-by saw what was happening and opened fire on the shooter with their own weapons. A gun battle then ensued between the shooter and community members. The shooter - under superior and unrelenting fire from citizens - fled and was pursued by local residents who forced his car off the road. The Texas Department of Public Safety has still yet to determine if the shooter committed suicide or died from being shot by community members.

If not for these two community members, Sutherland Springs could have turned into another Paris. Fortunately there is still only one Paris, Texas.

Also, it turns out the shooter was an atheist, which is probably why he targeted a church. We need to work on de-radicalizing and mainstreaming atheists; the atheist community needs to stand-up and take responsibility for its role in tragedies such as this.

Maybe, if that atheist fundamentalist didn't have access to these great texan offers (1 riffle offered to open a bank account or a handgun for 15 adult diaper super pack vouchers) it wouldn't've happened in the first place?
You can't imagine the amount of nutcase attacks we have in france with guys using a machete or a kitchen knife. Spoiler alert: things don't end up too well for them and they rarely manage any casualty.
Also, in france we have stuff called the police, or special forces that are kind of better qualified than hillbillies with shotguns to stop murderous nutcases.
Anyways, I m glad no european was injured and that it was just a bunch of zealot texans just being texans.

betiko wrote:Also, in france we have stuff called the police, or special forces that are kind of better qualified than hillbillies with shotguns to stop murderous nutcases.

obviously you don't

Sutherland Springs - 26
Paris - 137

This number is even more astonishing as the Wilson County Sheriff has 100 deputies covering an area of 2,000 square kilometers. The Paris Police Prefecture has 34,000 officers covering approximately the same area!*

Of course, this isn't a surprise. Even unarmed Anglophone backpackers outperform the bumbling French "police and special forces" ...

A heavily armed gunman has opened fire on a high-speed train travelling from Amsterdam to Paris before being overpowered by three US citizens. A British passenger, Chris Norman, helped the Americans tie up the suspect.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/ ... man-france

* That said, when there's a crime, half of the Parisian police immediately surrender to the criminals, so that delays response time a bit.

If the texans can't have police forces to protect them and have to take care of business with their own shotgun, it just proves hiw much of a third world country you live in.
26 killed, i guess that is a great success! Your cowboy vigilantes sure know how to keep their county safe!

betiko wrote:26 killed, i guess that is a great success!

yup

Sulfur Springs - 26 dead (2 armed American civilians on patrol)

Paris - 137 dead (34,000 French "police and special forces" on patrol)

saxitoxin wrote:

betiko wrote:26 killed, i guess that is a great success!

yup

Sulfur Springs - 26 dead (100 police available)
Paris - 137 dead (34,000 police available)

Can you talk in %?

How many people in that church, how many in the bataclan? And how many terrorists during that operation in paris vs your lone wolf?
Now do the same math for the vegas shooting... oh sorry... your next comeback is so lame, i can see it from up here. It says... up yours!

betiko wrote:

saxitoxin wrote:

betiko wrote:26 killed, i guess that is a great success!

yup

Sulfur Springs - 26 dead (100 police available)
Paris - 137 dead (34,000 police available)

Can you talk in %?

How many people in that church, how many in the bataclan? And how many terrorists during that operation in paris vs your lone wolf?
Now do the same math for the vegas shooting... oh sorry... your next comeback is so lame, i can see it from up here. It says... up yours!

I'll do it for him. fire-arm related death rate(homicides):

• USA: 3.6 per 100,000 people
• France: 0.21 per 100,000 people

Interestingly countries with similar rates to the USA are Nicaragua(3.72) and Barbados(3.12), whilst France is in the company of Denmark(0.22) and Switzerland(0.21).

Another number; the murder rate per 100,000 inhabitants(not fire-arm specific):

• USA: 4.88 per 100,000
• France: 1.58 per 100,000

Some nations with a lower intentional murder rate than the USA: Cuba, Rwanda, Niger, North-Korea, Iran, Lebanon, Liberia, Egypt, ...

waauw wrote:

betiko wrote:

saxitoxin wrote:

betiko wrote:26 killed, i guess that is a great success!

yup

Sulfur Springs - 26 dead (100 police available)
Paris - 137 dead (34,000 police available)

Can you talk in %?

How many people in that church, how many in the bataclan? And how many terrorists during that operation in paris vs your lone wolf?
Now do the same math for the vegas shooting... oh sorry... your next comeback is so lame, i can see it from up here. It says... up yours!

I'll do it for him. fire-arm related death rate(homicides):

• USA: 3.6 per 100,000 people
• France: 0.21 per 100,000 people

Interestingly countries with similar rates to the USA are Nicaragua(3.72) and Barbados(3.12), whilst France is in the company of Denmark(0.22) and Switzerland(0.21).

Another number; the murder rate per 100,000 inhabitants(not fire-arm specific):

• USA: 4.88 per 100,000
• France: 1.58 per 100,000

Some nations with a lower intentional murder rate than the USA: Cuba, Rwanda, Niger, North-Korea, Iran, Lebanon, Liberia, Egypt, ...

Not that surprising. All of the Americas generally have a higher homicide rate than Europe. The United States actually has one of the lowest homicide rates among its peer (Pan-American) nations. Argentina, Uruguay, French departments in the Americas (e.g. Guiana, Saint Pierre and Miquelon), Danish possessions in the Americas (e.g. Greenland), British colonies in the Americas (e.g. Montserrat, Anguilla), all have higher murder rates than the U.S.

The difference between higher murder rates in the Americas versus Europe could be due to the Pan-American ideal versus the European ideal. We have liberal living spaces with ample, plentiful land, and sprawling homes and properties, whereas - in Europe - people are crammed together shoulder-to-shoulder and can't really sneeze without fifty police noticing; that European living conditions encourage compliance and obedience. Hard to say!

The only thing we do know for sure is that anyone who tries to use white, European values as a method of judging Pan-American cultural standards is a neo-colonialist racist.

saxitoxin wrote:Not that surprising. All of the Americas generally have a higher homicide rate than Europe. The United States actually has one of the lowest homicide rates among its peer (Pan-American) nations. Argentina, Uruguay, French departments in the Americas (e.g. Guiana, Saint Pierre and Miquelon), Danish possessions in the Americas (e.g. Greenland), British colonies in the Americas (e.g. Montserrat, Anguilla), all have higher murder rates than the U.S.

It could be because we have liberal living spaces with ample, plentiful land, and sprawling homes and properties, whereas - in Europe - people are crammed together and can't really sneeze without fifty police noticing. Hard to say.

The large majority of the americas is also third world. The USA being a wealthy nation should do better. Just take a look at the other rich nation in the americas, Canada. The canadians only count 0.38 fire-arm related homicides per 100,000 and a general murder rate of only 1.68 per 100,000.

Taking a look at crime rates, the USA does better than europe and Canada, but it comes at a cost. People are less inclined towards violence because of gun laws in the USA, but because of those very laws the lethality of crimes is higher as well. THAT is the difference. The USA is sacrificing lives for mere lower burglary rates.

waauw wrote:
The large majority of the americas is also third world.

Irrelevant. The United States is, culturally, an American nation and can only be evaluated by the cultural standards of Pan-Americanism. Economics has no correlation to homicide rate. Madagascar, Sierra Leone, Cambodia, and Burkina Faso, all have lower homicide rates than Belgium.

Judging an American nation by European values is neocolonialist.

Simon Bolivar, George Washington, Bernardo O'Higgins, and Guillermo Brown fought to put an end to that.

waauw wrote:Taking a look at crime rates, the USA does better than europe and Canada, but it comes at a cost. People are less inclined towards violence because of gun laws in the USA, but because of those very laws the lethality of crimes is higher as well. THAT is the difference. The USA is sacrificing lives for mere lower burglary rates.

Burglary is a common crime that impacts millions. Homicide is an exotic crime that impacts very few people. Even in South Africa, which has a homicide rate 500% that of the U.S. homicide is still a rare event and you are likely to go your entire life without ever meeting someone who - within two degrees of separation - knows a murder victim.

It would be like saying "Three times as many Swiss have AB- type blood than Americans. Therefore, AB- blood is common in Switzerland." Not really, only 2% of the Swiss population has AB- blood.

saxitoxin wrote:

waauw wrote:

saxitoxin wrote:Not that surprising. All of the Americas generally have a higher homicide rate than Europe. The United States actually has one of the lowest homicide rates among its peer (Pan-American) nations. Argentina, Uruguay, French departments in the Americas (e.g. Guiana, Saint Pierre and Miquelon), Danish possessions in the Americas (e.g. Greenland), British colonies in the Americas (e.g. Montserrat, Anguilla), all have higher murder rates than the U.S.

It could be because we have liberal living spaces with ample, plentiful land, and sprawling homes and properties, whereas - in Europe - people are crammed together and can't really sneeze without fifty police noticing. Hard to say.

The large majority of the americas is also third world. The USA being a wealthy nation should do better. Just take a look at the other rich nation in the americas, Canada. The canadians only count 0.38 fire-arm related homicides per 100,000 and a general murder rate of only 1.68 per 100,000.

Taking a look at crime rates, the USA does better than europe and Canada, but it comes at a cost. People are less inclined towards violence because of gun laws in the USA, but because of those very laws the lethality of crimes is higher as well. THAT is the difference. The USA is sacrificing lives for mere lower burglary rates.

Burglary is a common crime that impacts millions. Homicide is an exotic crime that impacts very few people. Even in South Africa, which has a homicide rate 500% that of the U.S. homicide is still a rare event and you are likely to go your entire life without ever meeting someone who - within two degrees of separation - knows a murder victim.

It would be like saying "Three times as many Swiss have AB- type blood than Americans. Therefore, AB- blood is common in Switzerland." Not really, only 2% of the Swiss population has AB- blood.

Well yes and that's your choice. The majority of the developed world determined burglaries to be the lesser of two evils, and american republicans apparently argue the opposite. This entails that republicans also chose FOR mass shootings, a simple symptom of the choice made.

ps: maybe you should ask your police force how gun deaths impact their safety on the job.

waauw wrote:

saxitoxin wrote:

waauw wrote:

saxitoxin wrote:Not that surprising. All of the Americas generally have a higher homicide rate than Europe. The United States actually has one of the lowest homicide rates among its peer (Pan-American) nations. Argentina, Uruguay, French departments in the Americas (e.g. Guiana, Saint Pierre and Miquelon), Danish possessions in the Americas (e.g. Greenland), British colonies in the Americas (e.g. Montserrat, Anguilla), all have higher murder rates than the U.S.

It could be because we have liberal living spaces with ample, plentiful land, and sprawling homes and properties, whereas - in Europe - people are crammed together and can't really sneeze without fifty police noticing. Hard to say.

The large majority of the americas is also third world. The USA being a wealthy nation should do better. Just take a look at the other rich nation in the americas, Canada. The canadians only count 0.38 fire-arm related homicides per 100,000 and a general murder rate of only 1.68 per 100,000.

Taking a look at crime rates, the USA does better than europe and Canada, but it comes at a cost. People are less inclined towards violence because of gun laws in the USA, but because of those very laws the lethality of crimes is higher as well. THAT is the difference. The USA is sacrificing lives for mere lower burglary rates.

Burglary is a common crime that impacts millions. Homicide is an exotic crime that impacts very few people. Even in South Africa, which has a homicide rate 500% that of the U.S. homicide is still a rare event and you are likely to go your entire life without ever meeting someone who - within two degrees of separation - knows a murder victim.

It would be like saying "Three times as many Swiss have AB- type blood than Americans. Therefore, AB- blood is common in Switzerland." Not really, only 2% of the Swiss population has AB- blood.

Well yes and that's your choice.

The fact is that, if you came to the U.S. as a tourist there would be a statistically improbable chance you would be murdered, burglarized, robbed, or raped.

If I came to Europe as a tourist, there would be a statistically improbable chance I would be murdered, but I would have real concerns about being burglarized, robbed, or raped.*

* particularly because I have a hot bod

waauw wrote:ps: maybe you should ask your police force how gun deaths impact their safety on the job.

There are 1.1 million police in the U.S. of which 113 were last year killed on-duty, or 0.004%. Of those, less than one-third died by gunfire. (https://www.odmp.org/search/year)

These small and statistically insignificant numbers are probably why 91% of U.S. police officers, and 76% of police chiefs, support liberal firearms laws.

------

This is too easy; I did betiko and waauw - who wants to go next? Just signal you're ready by dropping your trousers and assuming the position and I'll get to you shortly.

That last sentence leaves no doubt when Saxi travels rape happens. We are left wondering which participant he will be.

It s pretty clear who lost the argument when you see that you had to edit all your posts saxi.
The bottom line is that your country is shit and you'll all end up killing each other in a zombie apocalypse lead by the NRA and donald trump.